Surgeon 308

[Vermincinerator]

All this crap about wearing out reamers is just that, crap!

A LW barrel wears out a reamer quicker then other barrels, SO WHAT!!!

A reamer is a cutting tool and cutting tools wear, thay have always been classed as "expendable" or come under "consumables" in the engineering industry.

When they are blunt they are re-sharpened or a new one is purchased and the cost factored into the tooling budget. simple as that.

 

Ian.

[baldie]

Baldie

just out of interest how many LW barrels have YOU actually fitted and seen through to being fired Roedale rifles dont count as we already know they dont shoot

and for the record speak to a real machinist thay will tell how to use a reamer correctly,I wont names names but a rifle builder who uses this site was so impressed with a LW with the finish the min run out tolernences and the extream accuarcy is going to start using them

so Baldie this is not a dig please get your facts correct or learn to use your tools,seems no one else in the UK has a problem with them,I know if you speak to LW they will actually send you instruction on how to chamber there barrels IE correct speed setting and the correct cutting fluid

I have persoanlly seen through to the end more than dozen rifles fitted with LW barrels and not one has had a problem or worn reamers out,most probable cause of throwing a shot out of a group is case preparation or driver error both symtoms Iam sure Ronnin knows of and how to correct

 

I,ve fitted one Pete, and it will be the last. There are better barrels out there for the same money.

I know full well how to use a reamer, the correct speeds for a walther, and the correct fluids....only a fool would start without the correct info.

I,m not going to name any names, but i,ve shot, shot in, and group tested rifles fitted with walther barrels, from 3 different sources, and none of them were stunning. They were all perfectly acceptable for blatting deer, but they were a long way from being target grade rifles. OK, there are always other factors that can cause problems, but again, as i said in the original post, these points were what i personally had experienced...nothing more...its just an opinion...like an arsehole...everyone has one.

Quite frankly, i dont give a toss whether other people like them...i dont, and i shoot enough rounds a week to know what will cut it, and what wont.

I cant recall ever seeing a walther barrel, on a winning match gun, in ANY discipline.

I also know full well, that there are a lot of satisfied people out there, who have walthers, like yourself...great stuff. They are not for me thats all.

[Ronin]

Ian

 

rightly put, reamers are just like drills (albeit more expensive), the guy who advised me in the states about the flush system runs his at higher pressure and his reamers have been used 100's of times without wearing out - they may have been re-sharpened but any tool will dull with use.

 

Like you say they are an expendable tool, I look after mine, but at the end of the day they are just another tool.

 

I think for the money the LW, Bartlein, Pac Nor etc tubes are decent value and the accuracy I have seen from them is pretty good, especially when you compare them to Broughton, Krieger, Hart etc which cost double and I don't see them being twice as accurate.

 

Dont get me wrong, if I could buy Krieger or Broughton for the same price as LW, Pac Nor etc I would go for the "name" every time - fecless bitch arnt I.

 

 

 

At the end of the day barrels are expendable items, use em, enjoy, throw away and get another

 

 

F2N, i'd rather keep my day job, but its a hell of an enjoyable way to spend my spare time, guess i'm building a "portfolio" just in case

 

 

 

One thing for sure, I need to paint that shiny tube black

[Wsm]

Andy

 

You`d miss the coffee and do-nuts too much

[Ronin]

My waistline wouldn't

[baldie]

I agree about reamers being expendable Ian, the problem being when you realise its blunt, when you start a cut. Not like one could nip down to cromwells is it, and pick up another.

PTG aren,t the quickest, and they try bloody hard. Even if its in stock, its usually a couple of weeks, then you get errors...i ordered a rougher and finisher, and headspace gauges for a .300 ultramag, a month ago, the parcel came yesterday, with .338 ultramag gear in it. What do you do

i didnt make my comments to piss anyone off, thats the very last thing i would want...i just gave my own personal opinion, on what i,ve personally seen...and been jumped on for it.

I wont be passing any more comments.

[Ronin]

Dave

 

 

I dont think anyone jumped on your experiences, I for one find it very interesting what other people find when machining x barrel against y.

 

Also had wrong items sent by PTG, it all depends on who takes the orders mate - Melissa is my fave

 

 

I expected some comments about my bricklaying skills by the way what with my "new bench" and its aestheticly pleasing good looks :l ol:

[Vermincinerator]

I ordered a 257 Roberts Improved on Monday, cant remember who took the order but i was sat in front of PTG's site looking at their reamer list and it just so happened the one i wanted had a part number, surely they cant get that wrong

 

Ian.

[col48]

Ian

 

rightly put, reamers are just like drills (albeit more expensive), the guy who advised me in the states about the flush system runs his at higher pressure and his reamers have been used 100's of times without wearing out - they may have been re-sharpened but any tool will dull with use.

 

Like you say they are an expendable tool, I look after mine, but at the end of the day they are just another tool.

 

I think for the money the LW, Bartlein, Pac Nor etc tubes are decent value and the accuracy I have seen from them is pretty good, especially when you compare them to Broughton, Krieger, Hart etc which cost double and I don't see them being twice as accurate.

 

Dont get me wrong, if I could buy Krieger or Broughton for the same price as LW, Pac Nor etc I would go for the "name" every time - fecless bitch arnt I.

 

 

 

At the end of the day barrels are expendable items, use em, enjoy, throw away and get another

 

 

F2N, i'd rather keep my day job, but its a hell of an enjoyable way to spend my spare time, guess i'm building a "portfolio" just in case

 

 

 

One thing for sure, I need to paint that shiny tube black

 

 

i have had 3 Krieger and i would not fit another to any of my own rifles.and i had one inspected by a well known rifle smith in Yorkshire. and he said he has never seen a Krieger so bad. the rifle has got a L/W on now and shoots great.

i have a Krieger in stock and it will not be being put on any rifle i have.

 

i have just had my 270 wsm reamer sharpened,(sent back to PTG) and it was back with me in 2 & 1/2 weeks i all so had a 6mm dasher, and a 7mm wsm reamer come at the same time,

the 270 wsm reamer was not a carbide and i think we got about 15 (don't quote me on the exact amount) barrels out of it and most where L/W barrels, if memory serves me well i think we did one border barrel, and they are like cutting through butter,in comparison.

before you all jump on me i work closely with the smiths that do my work.

 

ATB

Colin

[skany]

I must admit id be inclined to stick with a shillen again when the time comes as the rifle Dasherman built me is yet to shoot over a .3 group with the 6 types of bullets ive tried !

 

THe worst group being 87g vmax at about .3 but these are borderline for my twist rate anyhows!

 

id love to try it of a rest like ronins set up there:-)

 

I had a .6 at 324yds a few weeks ago which was pretty impresive!

 

this is all with "borrowed" load data off pete:-)

 

Andy

[Ronin]

Skany

 

the rest is a work of art - sold in the UK by Fox Firearms.

 

Link to the SEB Rest website for anyone interested:

 

http://www.sebcoax.com/

 

Not cheap, but half the price of a Farley and has twin columns for support, absolutely rock steady

[baldie]

my buddy, imported 3 of the seb rests Andy, just before foxy got some, for our little gang, and i have to agree, they are the absolute dogs mint choc chip. However, if you plan to bring it to diggle, to shoot owt, get yourself a length of 12mm stainless studding, and make a new set of legs for yours...about an inch longer. Diggle,s benchrests, all but the 1000 yards point, are too low for the standard legs....you cant get enough elevation with the good, thick rear bags you should be using with a rest such as this.

 

i had to smile when ours came. We ordered them, and they were manufactured inside 7 days, then it took just two and a half days for seb to get them to the airport in Jakarta, to our door at dinnertime. Pity the ###### yanks cant copy the postal service from a supposed 3rd world country.

[skany]

Id love to have a go of one as it really must take away the user error & help u get the most acurate load development possible!

Pluss u really would know wht ur rifle is capable of!

 

BUT i dont htink i could bring myself to part with that much cash for a rest

 

would be awsome of a bench for super long range stuff but would feel a little like cheating!

 

Andy

[Ronin]

Dave,

 

thanks for the tip, I have some nice thick diameter ally round bar that will do the trick - I was goinmg to make some "field platforms" anyway.

 

 

Skany,

 

I used bipods for years and got the same results as the rest I used to use before getting the SEB.

 

So long as your rifle is supported front and back, you should be able to extract best accuracy.

 

I planned to enter some F Class comps this year and have a go at Benchrest too (which is why I got the rest), but time never seems to be on my side at weekends and I missed completing my F Class rifle for the start of this years season as the stock was late and I am still trying to source some 180 Bergers at "normal" prices (refuse to pay £30 /100 that some people charge).

 

 

Price - well good things are never cheap, i'd rather buy once and have it for a long time, than buy twice, wishing i'd bought the one I really wanted in the firstplace....

 

Youre welcome to try the rest sometime with me if your ever in the "darkest north"

 

 

Colin

 

 

is that Krieger going spare - the one you "will never use" - what cal, profile etc is it mate?

[col48]

Dave,

 

thanks for the tip, I have some nice thick diameter ally round bar that will do the trick - I was goinmg to make some "field platforms" anyway.

 

 

Skany,

 

I used bipods for years and got the same results as the rest I used to use before getting the SEB.

 

So long as your rifle is supported front and back, you should be able to extract best accuracy.

 

I planned to enter some F Class comps this year and have a go at Benchrest too (which is why I got the rest), but time never seems to be on my side at weekends and I missed completing my F Class rifle for the start of this years season as the stock was late and I am still trying to source some 180 Bergers at "normal" prices (refuse to pay £30 /100 that some people charge).

 

 

Price - well good things are never cheap, i'd rather buy once and have it for a long time, than buy twice, wishing i'd bought the one I really wanted in the firstplace....

 

Youre welcome to try the rest sometime with me if your ever in the "darkest north"

 

 

Colin

 

 

is that Krieger going spare - the one you "will never use" - what cal, profile etc is it mate?

 

 

its a Krieger #7 if memory serves me well,and i believe it is a 1 in 10 twist.6mm

 

i all so have a 6mm L/W 1 in 12 twist # 1400 i think laying around.(could be a #1300)I'm getting old

[skany]

Dave,

 

thanks for the tip, I have some nice thick diameter ally round bar that will do the trick - I was goinmg to make some "field platforms" anyway.

Skany,

 

I used bipods for years and got the same results as the rest I used to use before getting the SEB.

 

So long as your rifle is supported front and back, you should be able to extract best accuracy.

 

I planned to enter some F Class comps this year and have a go at Benchrest too (which is why I got the rest), but time never seems to be on my side at weekends and I missed completing my F Class rifle for the start of this years season as the stock was late and I am still trying to source some 180 Bergers at "normal" prices (refuse to pay £30 /100 that some people charge).

Price - well good things are never cheap, i'd rather buy once and have it for a long time, than buy twice, wishing i'd bought the one I really wanted in the firstplace....

 

Youre welcome to try the rest sometime with me if your ever in the "darkest north"

Colin

is that Krieger going spare - the one you "will never use" - what cal, profile etc is it mate?

 

cheers for the offer mate but way up there as u say!

 

i do alright with my bipod & bag but that thing jsut has to be super stable!

 

Cheers Andy

[Ronin]

its a Krieger #7 if memory serves me well,and i believe it is a 1 in 10 twist.6mm

 

i all so have a 6mm L/W 1 in 12 twist # 1400 i think laying around.(could be a #1300)I'm getting old

 

 

Hmmm

 

 

I have a 243 AI reamer throated for the DTAC's, that could make the Surgeon into a switch barrel with that "useless Kreiger" so long as the twsit is fast enough

[col48]

Hmmm

 

 

I have a 243 AI reamer throated for the DTAC's, that could make the Surgeon into a switch barrel with that "useless Kreiger" so long as the twsit is fast enough

 

 

no one said it was useless, i said i would not fit another one to any of my rifles, thats y my 6x47 is wearing a L/W 1 in 8 twist.

[baldie]

.243Ai shooting dtac,s ? leave the reamer in the tailstock Andy, you will need it every week.

I,ve been kicking an idea for a 6xc about with John Mh, these past days, but havent got anywhere with David Tubb, or his agents. There is now a tube gun stock on order with Gary Elisio , and i think i,m gonna shove a lawton in it, and probarbly a pac-nor, or a truflite, when foxy gets them. The mags will run 6mmbr, 6mmbrx, or 6mm dasher apparently....cant make me mind up. unfortunatly, non of these are up to the dtac, but they reckon the clinch river 107 will match it from a brx.

John,s seriously tempted me, into putting a diopter on it, and donning a leather joy boy coat.

[John MH]

Problem with DTAC's is you have to drive them fast, around 3000 fps, before they are any better than a 107 SMK. But at 3000 fps they are smoking, the last time I used them in my T2k was with a Mike Rock 5R 30" barrel, the guy pulling my target at 600 yards brought the 3" spotting disk out of the butts with him as it had 8 out of 10 hits on it. I think the load was a bit too hot as it was very hard on my cases so I'm dropping it down by .2 grains but the ES was in single figures. Will be using the Mike Rock barrel again on the 20th Sep.

[John MH]

Having seen an Elisio tube kit in the flesh over here with a Remington action fitted to it I was not impressed with the quality of the finish. It was not anodised but powder coated I think and in the process of putting the thing together several patches had flaked off so be careful, it was in 6BR but I don't know how it shoots.

[ChrisF]

Hi Guys ,

 

I thought I would add a pic of my Surgeon builds , a SA & XL , the XL is just starting out , the SA is finished .

 

SA is 308 , in a AICS 2.0 stock , Bartlein barrel , 1-10 5R , with a USO MST-100 scope .

 

The XL will get dropped into a McRees Precision stock , and mount a MK4 16x , Bartlein 338 1-9.7 twist 5R barrel , shilen trigger .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChrisF]

The USO MST-100 , is basically a improved version of the USMC Unertl sniper scope , cammed for 308 , 173-175gr at 2600 fps , its unusual in that it has 2 elevation adjustments , a course (top , marked every 100yds ) and a fine ( bottom , tab , that allows you to adjust in a minor way , plus or minus 3 moa , in 1/2 moa clicks ) , its also a steel tubed 1 inche scope .

 

Its a interesting scope , was used by the USMC , also limited FBI use ,and also used on the Canadian C3A1 sniper rifle ( Parker Hale M87 ) .

 

 

Later Chris

[Ronin]

Looks good Chris

 

Seems we have opted for exactly the same pair (S/A repeater and an XL)

 

I was going to put the XL in a Manners T4a but found an A5 already inletted on the Mac specials section.

 

The McCrees look the business but I think (like AW stocks) you either like or loathe - just the same as marmite!

 

 

Be interesting to see how the 338 does when are you expecting completion?

 

 

How does the S/A Surgeon shoot or is that a silly question

[Guest varmartin]

Hi ChrisF....nice to see the USO`s....we dont see them much.

 

Your folding stock SA in .308 looks nice.

 

Where are you from ??

 

Looking at the `carpet pile` and hammer I would guess at the UK