.300RUM

[njc110381]

I've been reading up on a relatively new calibre recently, the .300rum. I'm looking to go out to canada this winter and would like to have a rifle with me that will down an angry Bear if needs must. I know it's an unlikely event, but I can't help but be a little worried.

 

From what I've been reading, the .300rum can push out 4000+ ft-lbs with high power ammunition. That's near .375H&H levels! At the same time you can buy a round that is brought down to .30-06 class to shoot in the UK for the usual Deer species.

 

I like the idea. I can justify the power for going abroad, but don't need it often. I'd love to be able to say I own a .375H&H, but for 99% of my shooting it would be a waste of time! If I could get something that big cleared for Deer and Boar I'd consider it, but then there's the issue of land checks. The round is pretty slow, so a vast backstop would be a must. I'd have thought it would be more likely to ricochet than a HV .30 cal? The trajectory would also be on par with lobbed bricks!

 

Has anyone used the .300 rum at it's various power levels? I know a hand load can be brought down to a reasonable level easily, but to justify its use in the UK (especially on the range) it would be good to be able to point out the lower powered factory ammo to the firearms dept.

[casts_by_fly]

What kind of bears are you talking about? If you mean black bears then you don't need anywhere near the power of a 300 RUM. A 308 is plenty with heavy bullets (165 or bigger) and you don't find angry black bears. If you want grizzlies or browns then you want a bigger diameter gun. While the 300 rum will have energy, it won't have stopping power because of the smaller diameter. You'd be better off with a 338 win mag or even the 375 with the bigger and heavier bullets. Or, if you really have a liking for the RUM case then you can make it into a 338 edge which would do the business as well.

 

Thanks

Rick

[njc110381]

I'm talking about any kind that are bigger than me and likely to win if we have a falling out (so all of them really!).

 

I shoot a 6.5x55, and the guy I'm staying with has offered me a .30-06 to use. Really what I'm looking for is an excuse to buy a heavy calibre, but I get the feeling a .375H&H may be asking a little much if I want to use it here? That's what I'd like ideally

[Vermincinerator]

I have to agree that you would be much better with a 338 Win mag if you are after bear, however 45-70, and 450 marlin would be much better choices for all bears at ranges up to 150yds.

If you are only going hunting in bear country then there is no point carrying a big bore rifle.

Hunters and fishermen packing out in bear country usually carry large bore handguns for close encounters of the ursine kind, maybe your buddy could lend you one.

 

Ian.

[njc110381]

The other guy I'm hoping to meet up with out there has a .50AE Desert Eagle he wants me to use, but I'm a little worried that I'm not going to be very accurate with it

 

I'd love to give it a go at the range though. He says he tries to get all his UK friends to fast fire at a target just to see how good a group they can get and how well they cope with the recoil

 

Is a .338 win mag an acceptable deer calibre too? I assume it's just a necked up .300?

[Guest rogern]

I lived in canada back in the 80's and most of the hunters I met used 06's or suchlike.

 

Anyway if a black bear comes at you at full chat and and is seriously pissed off, you would just be standin in your own excrement, so the smell may be a deterrent.

[Guest Tiff]

The .300 RUM is an excellent all round cartridge. If you use the search button on this forum I'm sure you'll find a few of my threads on it......I used it on Roe to Red and shooting out to 2,000+ yards. A very versatile cartridge! However you do need a bit of weight in the rifle since at under 14 lbs it can be a bit punchy. However I weighted mine to 22-26 lbs and it recoiled like a .223.

[njc110381]

I'm not really a fan of long range shooting (tin hat on!) so maybe it wouldn't be the best calibre. I'm looking at getting an FAC pump 12g at some point, so maybe that with slugs in would cover it.

[eddieb]

Tiff

 

thats a bloody heavy rifle, do you carry it, i have a 243 `that was built for me and after putting a big scope on it with bipod it comes out at eleven pounds and i still find that more than i really wanted.

 

I understand what you mean about recoil/weight etc but it just seems a hell of a wieght for stalking.

 

I must be getting old I want less weight.

 

Cheers

Eddie

[Andrew]

The other guy I'm hoping to meet up with out there has a .50AE Desert Eagle he wants me to use, but I'm a little worried that I'm not going to be very accurate with it

 

I'd love to give it a go at the range though. He says he tries to get all his UK friends to fast fire at a target just to see how good a group they can get and how well they cope with the recoil

 

Is a .338 win mag an acceptable deer calibre too? I assume it's just a necked up .300?

 

Not only is the Desert Eagle an awkward, ungainly piece of ordnance, but if you are not a handgunner (and have exceptionally large hands) you might as well throw rocks for the good it will do you. I have shot the 50 AE. Yawn.

 

As to the question at hand, why not qa 375 H&H? I have one and if I was restricted to only ONE centerfire cartridge for the restof my life it would be the 375 H&H. Tremendous accuracy, plenty of power, and a flat trajectory. It is my No.1 choice for Elk. It will handily drop anything on the North American continent. If not a 375, then a plain old 30-06 with 180 grain bullets. Ammo is available everywhere should what you bring fall into mishap. ~Andrew

[njc110381]

I think the guy has a desert eagle because he's british and he can out there! I'd have one if I could, just because it would be fun!

 

The last thing I thought the .375H&H would have is flat trajectory. Andrew-are you a UK shooter? What do you use your .375 for? If I could have one for Deer and maybe Boar I'd get one, but if I can only use it abroad I'm not interested. As I said above I'm not a long range shooter, and would like something I could shoot with open sights for Boar in countries that don't allow a military calibre to be used (as my 6.5x55 isn't allowed). A heavy calibre would be great with open sights, nice and traditional. I'd even consider a double rifle if I could afford one

[Redfox]

Andrew is across the pond in able to have guns America.

It depends a lot which bears your talking about black bears die easy enough with 06s etc, but Grizzly/ brown bears are a whole different animal, they do not go down easy and in a sudden attack you dont have time or balls for a carefully aimed head shot .

I have a very good book called Nunaga, written by a scots lad ( Duncan Pryde) who went to Canada in 1948 to become a Hudson Bay Trader, some of the journeys and the privations endured are simply amazing and he eventually married a Inuit princess and became a respected member of the Inuit National Council.

One of the stories he reports is when right up north at one of his trading posts, he had just arrived when the hunters were returning after a hunting trip. As they were being greeted by their families a large grizzly appeared ( probably following the scent on the beaver pelts) and was heading for one guys hut where his wife and little boy were standing in the doorway ( and it didnt want to shake their hands! ) he turned and emptied the full clip from his springfield 30-06 into the grizzly, it still came on and ripped him to bits before falling dead. when they skinned it out, all 5rounds had gone through the heart of which there was nothing left. These people hunt/shoot to live not for fun and to remain cool enough with a charging grizzly to put the full clip right in the target area says a lot for the mans courage defending his family and coolness under attack, I doubt any of us would in any way qualify for that. So talk of pistols and light cal rifles is very misplaced confidence to say the least.

There are many other recent instances of grizzlys shrugging off what we might consider enough firepower and killing / maiming people, I personally would go for the 375 H&H or 375/416 Rem ultramag with big heavy bullets, as Pat says distance isnt the required thing, it will be up close and personal and a high velocity brick is what you want ( maybe double 600 Nitro Express).

I have had a Winchester pre 64 action Safari rifle in 375 H&H and it was more than enough to shoot ten rounds, then call it a day with 300gr bullets, wish I had kept it now as they wont make any more.

Redfox

[Chris-NZ]

You guys been watchin waaaay too many huntin DVD's....

 

As for the .300 whatever flavor of the week mags.....Ya dont NEED them....

 

308Panther

 

Well one thing you don't need is the barrel life of the UltraMag.

According to a prominent NZ BR gunsmith who's done several rebarrels on these big boomers, 300 rounds is enough to see some barrels out.

The .375 H&H, while not as fashionable, will more than get the job done without any one these issues.

I found the recoil of my (US) mate's .375 -far- more pleasant that full-house 220gr loads out of his .300Wby, and the RUM wouldn't be any nicer..

 

Chris, NZ

[MarinePMI]

How about the 9.3x62? Not a military cartridge, fairly large & heavy bullets and recoil is pretty manageable (and this is coming from a very slender built guy). You can get them in fairly inexpensive Mausers, CZ FS and Safari rifles, all the way up to the uber Safari gun costing loads of cash.

 

It should handle bear and boar nicely, with open sights or scope.

 

 

Just a thought...

[casts_by_fly]

marine,

 

That is a good suggestion also, and one that I contemplated suggesting. However, if the intent is to stop a charging bear it would still be a little light for my comfort zone. The 9.3x62 is just a 30-06 necked up to 9.3 mm (0.362"?). While it would be a little better than the standard 30-06, it would carry about the same energy. The 338 win mag would probably top my list given this set of conditions (stop a bear but also use for big deer here) but a 375 H&H would be pretty good too. The 375 ruger is another interesting cartridge but I suspect that rifles and components are in short supply in this country.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[njc110381]

If I was to get a .375H&H there wouldn't be much I couldn't hunt. I read somewhere it's the smallest calibre you can use for dangerous game in some places?

 

Don't get me wrong, I've got no time for shooting most of the big game species. I'd be really sad if I had to shoot an elephant or lion, but maybe a buffalo would be fair game for the future.

 

My 6.5x55 is great for everything we have here, apart from maybe boar and long range large deer. If the .375 wasn't too big for them I'd be seriously interested.

 

I'm not a big lover of recoil, but I can handle 12g slugs ok from prone as long as I don't have to shoot too many! How hard does a .375H&H kick?

[Redfox]

Not so much hard as a big shove but the 375 is a usefull round, I found that at say 100yds the bullet weight didnt matter they all went to the same point of aim from 235gr to 330gr a fact that I then found out is well known around the world!! oh well we all have to learn and the heavier bullets are easier on the shoulder than the light ones.

It is easy to load for ( I used reloader powder mostly ) and the bullets reasonably priced unless you go for tungsten solids which worked out at a pound+ each, however you dont rattle off 50 rounds with something like this 8-10 to zero it and then shooting an animal 1 or 2 is all you need.

Many people buy one , go to Africa or Alaska, realise they are not going to do it every year and put the rifle up for sale, so there are some reasonably priced s/h ones out there that havent fired 100rds.

Redfox

[njc110381]

A bit like my 6.5 really then, I don't use that much!

 

There's something about the round that just interests me. I'm not a long range flat shooter type, and I didn't realise the .300 rum would burn barrels quite as fast as some of you have said!

 

There are some cheap .375s around. Cheap enough to allow me to buy one just to say that I have one, and use it now and again

[Andrew]

Redfox is right. POI is about the same for all bullet weights of the 375 H&H. How hard it kicks depends on the stock. I have shot them in low-combed stocks and gotten the bejeesus kicked out of me. In a well designed stock, no worse then a 12 ga. They can be down loaded to 38-55 specs for deer if you wish.

 

Again, I can't emphasize the importance of being able to pick up ammunition in your hunting area. The RUM and 375 Ruger would be a long shot; 375 H&H, not so much.

 

As to the 9.3x62. With a 270 grain bullet loaded to 2400 fps it carried more energy than a 30-06 and will stop very large game handily. I have a 9.3x57 I bought for up close work. I expect it to do well. ~Andrew

[njc110381]

The same POI for various bullet weights? That's clever! I understand that ammo is easy to come by for the .375H&H, which as you say could be an important thing. I reload as a rule, but have been told that often if travelling by air it is easier just to leave the ammo at home and take the gun? For some reason airport security are happier with that?

 

For every day use I would load it down a bit and use light bullets. There's no point having 4000+ft-lbs energy and 350 grains of punch to make a hole in paper or shoot Deer.

[baldie]

Wouldn,t the 45/70 or .444 in a lever action marlin be a decent bear gun?

[Vermincinerator]

njc,

If you have any intention at all of loosing a round off at a cape buffalo even if its just a thought, get something bigger mate, that can handle at least 400grn bullets.

I am not speaking from experience here mate but i think it would be a wise move.

 

Ian.

[Andrew]

The same POI for various bullet weights? That's clever! I understand that ammo is easy to come by for the .375H&H, which as you say could be an important thing. I reload as a rule, but have been told that often if travelling by air it is easier just to leave the ammo at home and take the gun? For some reason airport security are happier with that?

 

For every day use I would load it down a bit and use light bullets. There's no point having 4000+ft-lbs energy and 350 grains of punch to make a hole in paper or shoot Deer.

 

 

I agree with you on the energy issue. I have 250 grain lead bullets for the 38-55 that work well in the 375 H&H at 1800 fps. They are accurate and will kill deer very well. The thing about the 375 is that it is an inherently accurate cartridge; kind of mesmerizing to shoot. I have built several of them; the last I built was for myself on a Model 30 Express Remington action using a Douglas barrel and stocked in fiddleback maple. A customer offered me too much money for it before I even got to put it on paper and it was gone; hunting Elk in New Mexico. My personal gun now is a Model 70 Winchester that was an estate rifle in S. Africa. Used little before I got it.

 

Baldie: Either of those calibers will kill bear depending on the determination of the shooter. Remember, grizzlies were killed with muzzleloaders for many years. The 30-40 Krag was a favorite at one time. I load the .444 with 350 grain bullets. They are marginally stable at longer ranges but beat the hell out of the 240 grain HP pistol bullets or the 265 grain factory rifle loads. In the 45-70 lever gun I like the 300 - 350 grain bullets for sure feeding, but my Siamese '98 Mauser custom eats everything up to 560 grains. ~Andrew

[ds1]

416 Rigby as no has mentioned it - in a Cz sporter was memorable from the amount of brussing it gave me after 5 rounds - should not cost the earth and has a mauser action which seems prefered from what I`ve read by the dangerous game types.

 

Mind you 6.5x54 was thought enough gun for many elephant by Bell.

 

David

[ds1]

416 Rigby as no has mentioned it - in a Cz sporter was memorable from the amount of brussing it gave me after 5 rounds - should not cost the earth and has a mauser action which seems prefered from what I`ve read by the dangerous game types.

 

Mind you 6.5x54 was thought enough gun for many elephant by Bell.

 

David