6xc?

[briar]

Hi guys, Considering a spot of rearranging of my gun cabinet.

Was thinking of the 6xc to add to my Blaser R8 in 223. Anyone with experience of calibre? Could argue its for vermin, hunting etc but in reality just longer range plinking than 223 in a rifle I like the handling of. Already have 223, 6ppc and 260 rem in other rifles. Would consider swapping in 223 (RPA) for variation. Thought 6xc would compliment what I had or should I consider another calibre (eg 7x64). Have heard good reports of the calibre when used at Cawdor recently.

 

Cheers Briar

[jcampbellsmith]

I like the 6XC very much.

 

Regards JCS

 

[Offroad Gary]

Plug a 105amax at 2950fps into a ballistic calculator and see what you think. It shoots very well and slips the wind. Twist rate is right for heavier 6mm bullets in the r8 version.

 

I'd have one tomorrow!

[garyw]

Vince B-[gun pimp] has one and shoots it at diggle with a good return he will tell all.

[Laurie]

A nice cartridge capable of fantastic precision, but maybe a litlle down on the 6BR and Dasher variants for bench rest type competition. Sees some F-Class use. It'll shoot well to 1,000 yards easily with the heavier match bullets.

 

Not hard to load for. The rifle can be built for 115s (7.5" twist / longer throat) or 105-108s (8" twist) .... or for that matter lighter bullets should you choose if varminting is the first prioity. Match rifles can get 105s to 3,100 fps and up. Good (Norma) brass is available and .22-250 Rem can be re-formed / fireformed. Redding makes good quality bushing dies and L E Wilson does XC stuff. It feeds well from magazines such as the AI as well as sporting rifle magazines.

 

Equivalent cartridges are the necked-down 6-6.5X47 Lapua and 6mm Creedmoor wildcats, all three popular on the US Precision Rifle tactical / sniper circuit. 243 Win and its 6mm Super LR improvement are a bit bigger and burn barrels out a bit faster with equivalent heavy bullets and loads. Barrel accuracy life of the XC will be 1,500-2,000 rounds depending on loads, pressures and rate of fire.

[bradders]

It was designed for Highpower and is an evolution of the .240 NMC

 

JMH had the first one here and Layne Chisholm uses his to very good effect in Highpower competition at Bisley.

 

Just make sure you have spare barrels tp hand!

[The Gun Pimp]

Decent enough cartridge thanks to the availability of Norma's 6XC brass - what started as David Tubb's wildcat formed from the 22-250 case is now essentially a factory round with a good choice of loaded ammo from Norma as well as brass.

 

I use mine for 1000 yd benchrest running at 3200-ish with 105gn bullets but it does 'kill' the brass quite quickly at these velocities!

[briar]

Thank you for the replies gents.

 

Was on the phone to Macleods earlier about prices for barrels and a bolt head. He sounded impressed by their demo at Cawdor. Am sure he mentioned inch groups at 300m from factory loads when demonstrating optics.

 

How does it compare to the 260 rem? Sounds like it may make it a bit redundant too!

 

Was thinking of 105 to 108gr as wasn't sure a Blaser barrel would have fast enough twist for 115's

 

As for barrels are they not classed as consumable items?

[Laurie]

You can argue the pros and cons of middleweight sixes and 6.5s until the cows come home. It mostly depends on what you're going to do with them. The US PRS guys and many equivalent competitors + BR shooters here love sixes because of their light recoil reducing rifle disturbance and for unknown distance competitive shooting / varminting the six shoots a bit flatter too which is a big plus.

 

260, 6.5X47L, 6.5 Creedmoor are ballistically superior (but not by vast amounts) at long ranges in known distance competition, and barrels will last a bit longer for a given case / size weight of powder charge. (That's why Lapua developed its x47L - it was intended to match the 6mm BR Norma in 300 metre competition performance-wise and also give enhanced barrel life. It didn't seriously challenge the 6BR as it turned out for the ISSF / CISR people, but that's by the by as it found roles Lapua hadn't envisaged.)

 

Barrels are consumables, yes - but just like running a 500 bhp V12 whatever on the roads, consumption can get a bit heavy / expensive and 1,000, even 2,000 rounds down the barrel can come around quicker than you might imagine when you're having fun. If a barrel lasts 1,000 rounds or less and a gunsmith charges £750 for replacement for a conventional workshop chambered / threaded match quality job, then you add another 7.5 p per round cost to that of the ammunition. Then there's the running-in, resighting etc fag and nothing's worse than having a hummer barrel that shoots lights out, to find its expensive same spec replacement doesn't perform nearly as well no matter how you try and tweak the loading.

[briar]

Just read your article Vince comparing the smack to your 6xc. You stated in the conclusion that you weren't totally happy with the xc as you felt there was more to come from it. Is this still the case or have you managed to eek out more and if so how did you achieve it?

[The Gun Pimp]

Just read your article Vince comparing the smack to your 6xc. You stated in the conclusion that you weren't totally happy with the xc as you felt there was more to come from it. Is this still the case or have you managed to eek out more and if so how did you achieve it?

I did try to get it to match the 6mmSmack for velocity but the Smack's small primer takes the pressure so much better.

 

I'm only getting 6x47 velocities from the 6XC - even though it's a slightly bigger case - but again no case-forming with the 6XC so that's a plus. There may be a better powder than Elcho 17 and I may do some experimenting now the season is over.

 

For an 'out of the box' 6mm cartridge it's very good - but, if you are prepared to do some case-forming etc. then there are better options IMHO.

[briar]

I know several guys swearing by their 6.5x47s up here for stalking/ gun club use, but I've not heard of anyone actually using 6xc other than on the accurate shooter forum and then mostly for competition. I understand why Mr Tubb developed it.

It sounds to me an extremely good 6mm calibre but does not appear to have very many users over here - please correct me if I'm wrong.

As an enthusiastic plinker who is keen to learn and improve, it's difficult to suss what a particular calibre would be like to use in the real world over how it compares in a reloading manual. I appreciate your replies, they have been most helpful and thank you for taking the time.

Hope my firearms officer is in a good mood tomorrow!

[jcampbellsmith]

I got my 6XC up and running last summer and shot a couple of roe buck and a couple of stags with the Norma 100gr Oryx. I also have a 260 Rem in a very similar configuration. I've used the 6XC this year in some small competitions with some success. I haven't had time to work on loads and need to revisit my competition loads this winter, but as Laurie says, it's been easy to load for.

 

Brass can either be bought, or there's factory ammo at Macleod's in Tain.

 

One is being built here - https://www.facebook.com/pages/PJS-Precision/428552947231365 and I know of someone else looking at getting one built.

 

Regards

 

JCS

[bradders]

The first guy I ever met shooting a Tubb 2K (in AZ) had got so tired of rebarrelling that he had his chambered in 6.5XC and it increased the barrel life no end.

 

Sherri Gallagher used her T2K to great effect in .260 Rem, her Stepdad, Mid Tompkins was one of the great driving forces behind the .260

[Offroad Gary]

I think Gregor Mcleod, the scottish Blaser dealer is now doing most of his shooting with an R8 in 6xc. He would give you an honest real world opinion of its capabilities.

[terryh]

Gents,

 

What has a 6XC got over a straight 243 for deer?

 

T

[jcampbellsmith]

Gents,

 

What has a 6XC got over a straight 243 for deer?

 

T

Nothing that I can see so far. Regards JCS

[Offroad Gary]

Gents,

 

What has a 6XC got over a straight 243 for deer?

 

T

Most are faster twist and enable the use of polycarb red tipped 105 gn bullets

[DW58]

Barrels are consumables, yes - but just like running a 500 bhp V12 whatever on the roads, consumption can get a bit heavy / expensive and 1,000, even 2,000 rounds down the barrel can come around quicker than you might imagine when you're having fun. If a barrel lasts 1,000 rounds or less and a gunsmith charges £750 for replacement for a conventional workshop chambered / threaded match quality job, then you add another 7.5 p per round cost to that of the ammunition. Then there's the running-in, resighting etc fag and nothing's worse than having a hummer barrel that shoots lights out, to find its expensive same spec replacement doesn't perform nearly as well no matter how you try and tweak the loading.

Agreed - and the prices quoted are for conventional barrels. I think the OP is talking in terms of a Blaser barrel, well we all know what they cost. The 6XC barrel used on the Blaser/Swarovski demo day at Cawdor had several hundred rounds through it in the course of a few hours - I wouldn't be too happy with a barrel that had maybe 30-40-50% of its useful life written off in just one day on the range.

 

Good calibre perhaps, but it won't be long until it's "so last year" - as soon as the 6.2mm Rubber Duck, .242 Mole strangler or something similar comes along.

[The Gun Pimp]

Good calibre perhaps, but it won't be long until it's "so last year" - as soon as the 6.2mm Rubber Duck, .242 Mole strangler or something similar comes along.

Sooner the better - I get bored easily.............

 

Seriously though - modifying 'factory' cartridges is great fun and without the 'wildcatters' we'd all be stuck with 30-06, 308, 223 etc. (although Laurie will probably tell us that the 223 was factory wildcat from the 222).

[briar]

That's why I'm looking for feedback. FAC renewal due in a few months and trying to reorganise/rationalise - what ever you want to call it- my gun cabinet. Would like to add another calibre to existing R8 which I really like as very pointable, relatively light and easily carried in comparison with my other rifles. Would possibly make existing 223 a dedicated NV and new calibre as an all rounder. Vermin, the occasional deer and longer range plinking. I would be more than happy with another 6mm and the xc caught my attention as I believe it's a 1 in 8 twist and uses less powder than a standard 243. Surely this makes it a more versatile option with better barrel life than say the 243 used in the same manner? Be a bit boring too if we all liked the same.

Most of the info found on the web on the calibre is target orientated from across the pond - a bit difficult to relate to if your a farmer from North East Scotland and unaware of the vagaries of competitive shooting. More used to "minute of crow" and watching the neighbouring wind turbines to gauge wind.

[gbal]

Briar,I understand-and empathise with- your ideas. IF you are wedded to using the Blaser,then of course your choice has to be from what Blaser offer (or just maybe a very,very few customers.6xc is one option.

It's been developed mainly as an accurate 'accross the course' US competition round,but of course wouls make a general use cartridge very like the classic standard 243w. It may use a pinch less powder,and still be efficient enough to be ballistically equivalent (but not to an Ackley Improved 243).Both shoulder angle and less capacity might extend barrel life a little,but it would be pretty hard to predict how much,and it won't be a lot....let's hope the 6xc barrel replacements are still readily available when needed....

Any advantage-and increased bullet weight is one- for the faster 1/8 twist would be equalled by any 243 so barreled-though factory choice would be limited indeed(possibly none!)-though a custom barrel would not cost more than a Blaser barrel (but not of course on the Blaser chasis).

You will have considered component availability,as you mention 'the north'-good luck with ready availability of 6xc brass...especially when any fashion change comes along...

The 6 xc is a fine cartridge-no better than the 243w really,and you trade fashion/cutting edge ffor classic reliability-most anything shot will not be aware of the issues. A very few new comers do 'make it'-probably the 6BR (hardly new!) is a contender,but a bit light for big deer-as are most of the 6mms....!

As I said,I sympathise,and I'm not ditching my 6.5x54 M/S carbine for any newer fangled,less carryable wunderstick any time soon-though I have a decent supply of brass. Staying with Blaser only,it would be a tougher choice of 6mm if there were a fast twist 243w barrel option....actually no,given that was available,choice becomes (almost !!) a no brainer...the 'classics' endure because they just work-though can be improved-more by a faster twist barrel than a tweaked chamber,in this comparison. Good shooting,whatever your choice.

 

gbal

[John MH]

6XC was developed as a competitive Target Shooting round using bullets in the weight range of 90 to 115 grains. Although not designed for hunting it will do that job with suitable bullets, however, a hunter should get far more usable barrel life than a competitive shooter who will be changing out barrels when his/her X count goes down. You should expect to get 2000 to 3000 rounds of barrel life provided you are not running overly hot loads.

[jcampbellsmith]

Norma are taking the 6XC quite seriously at the minute. I've used two of the following rounds:

 

http://www.norma.cc/en/Products/Hunting/6XC/

 

I've not bought or used any of the following ammunition yet.

 

http://www.norma.cc/en/Products/Target/Norma-6XC/

 

Regards

 

JCS

[The_Dogge]

Barrels are consumables, yes - but just like running a 500 bhp V12 whatever on the roads, consumption can get a bit heavy / expensive and 1,000, even 2,000 rounds down the barrel can come around quicker than you might imagine when you're having fun. If a barrel lasts 1,000 rounds or less and a gunsmith charges £750 for replacement for a conventional workshop chambered / threaded match quality job, then you add another 7.5 p per round cost to that of the ammunition. Then there's the running-in, resighting etc fag and nothing's worse than having a hummer barrel that shoots lights out, to find its expensive same spec replacement doesn't perform nearly as well no matter how you try and tweak the loading.

 

I presume it's not just me that noticed £750 / 1000 rounds is 75p/round, making barrel life probably the most expensive consumable. But that is very short barrel life.

 

As soon as my .243 barrel gives up I will have the same conundrum, do I go for a fast twist 243, no license/conditions faff, I have the dies etc, or do I go for something else? 6XC should be no problem conditions wise and looks a good option, does it really give equivalent velocities to 243 with that much less case capacity?