Best 6 mm cartridge

[sussexsteve]

Chaps

Thought I would ask on here as I know there is plenty of experience among the members . If you were to have a 6 mm built what chambering would you go for ? I want a rifle that can take Charlie of an evening but could also handle deer during the day . I currently have 223 and 270 . Thanks

Atb Steve

[1967spud]

easier just to pick one as they will all do what you want

 

6mmbr

.243

.243 ai

6x47

 

 

all well worth a look at

[gbal]

Chaps

Thought I would ask on here as I know there is plenty of experience among the members . If you were to have a 6 mm built what chambering would you go for ? I want a rifle that can take Charlie of an evening but could also handle deer during the day . I currently have 223 and 270 . Thanks

Atb Steve

243 win was designed to do very well these two things.If you want no fuss,everything readily available (bit like 223 and 270) nothing else will beat it significantly,esp as you have a 270 for big deer.You will be advised of course of lots of altenatives,and rightly so,and look into them if you want advanced reloading etc,for it's own sake.But for your stated purpose,you won't do much,if any better,than the classic standard 243 (which is rather more flexible these days with a wider range of bullets,if you must-the 55 will put you close to 4000 fps,though you don't need that,and the near 90+g will be very sound for deer,80+g will do both.But it's a great all rounder-which is why it still outsells all the others,and need not mean a premium price,and will come in sensible carry size off the peg,and lots and lots of choice. It perform excellently at all sensible ranges for your intended use.The 244 rem is just as good,but is rare here.6x47 etc,are fine;6XC etc too exotic , BUT are no better,for your purposes, and will not offer anything like the choice,or even availability,especially at the 'sensible for purpose' price range,especially in a carry rifle.You do not neeed to compromise effective accuracy or anything else pertinent to your purposes with a 243w.

[dannyt]

Are you going for Factory chamberings or Wildcat?

 

I think the 243 can do it all , Ive just built 3 243super LRs one 14 twist one 10 twist and one 8 twist for keepers in the area.

 

As far as wildcats go its easy to form brass from strait 243 brass cheap to , you just run it through a full length neck die job done .

 

This will give you 243 speed with br shoulder and neck.

 

The main point with wildcats is ease of making brass and getting hold of it at the right price,so you wont cry over a few bit of brass lost while out foxing or stalking.

[1967spud]

Are you going for Factory chamberings or Wildcat?

 

I think the 243 can do it all , Ive just built 3 243super LRs one 14 twist one 10 twist and one 8 twist for keepers in the area.

 

As far as wildcats go its easy to form brass from strait 243 brass cheap to , you just run it through a full length neck die job done .

 

This will give you 243 speed with br shoulder and neck.

 

The main point with wildcats is ease of making brass and getting hold of it at the right price,so you wont cry over a few bit of brass lost while out foxing or stalking.

 

omg who would ever have a 1:8 thats way to tight for a 6mm unless you mean mine

[Finman]

One of the 6mm cartridges that always gets missed in such discussions is the 6mmRem. I feel that anything that was based on the excellent 7x57 (7mm Mauser) case, merits a mention as the ballistics and general performance are noteworthy. It is not the barrel burner that the .243 (reputedly) is, it has great potential as an AI and can handle any bullet weight in the 6mm range and it is inherently accurate. I know, long action and all that, but, with today's rifles, I don't think that this should be a factor. Call me traditional, but sometimes, if something ain't broke, there isn't much need to try and fix it...I feel that is the case with the 7x57 and all its derivatives.

 

best wishes

 

Finman

'

[tackb]

243 will do everything you want but so will the two rifles you already have?

[TonyH]

One of the 6mm cartridges that always gets missed in such discussions is the 6mmRem. ....Finman

 

Glad someone mentioned this round - personally I'm bored stiff with the .243 not least because the staggeringly stick-in-the-mud dealers we have in the Westcountry all tout it, and look at you oddly if you mention anything developed within the past forty years or so... But if I wanted an "established" 6mm it would be the Remington, better case for handloading than the .243 with a slightly longer neck, fractionally greater capacity. A friend in Canada shoots a Remington varmint rifle in 6mmRem very well indeed (she's fast and accurate!), out to several hundred yards.

My personal choice would be 6mmBR in a varmint rifle, if I could get one without having to pretend it was principally for deer or something; it has proven, inherent high accuracy, and magazine feeding isn't an issue for me since I feed single rounds off a magazine follower.

Tony

[jcampbellsmith]

Steve

 

Two more to consider: 6XC and 6CM. Some more info on these two here:

 

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?board=6.0

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/6xc/

 

Don't rush your decision. Have fun. JCS

[Foxshooter]

My personal choice would be .243AI

 

It will shoot factory .243 ammo if you want to or have to. It can give you more grunt if you want the extra range. The brass seems to last almost forever if you dont load it like you stole it.

 

Its not a bog standard vanilla calibre so has a little something to make it stand out from the crowd

 

Mark

[Offroad Gary]

6mm remAI is the nuts, used one a fair bit, a mate does all his park work with one and it punches well above its weight at those long range devon reds!

[garyw]

I have had all 4 -my latest is the 6x47 on a stolle action[this was a 6-284]as for all round performance i would plug for the 6br[or a improvement on the parent case]i wont go into detail as this would take up too much time but for -target work and vermin control -6BR.

EDIT- DIDNT SEE THE BIT ABOUT DEER-DOH!

[Chris-NZ]

..The 244 rem is just as good,but is rare here...

 

You wouldn't want a .244 as a deer gun- its slow twist won't stabilise stuff any bigger than roughly 85gr. You possibly meant the 6 Rem. As later posters have said, the 6mm Rem is a very good chambering.

 

As an aside, "Rem" cases designs are often better than their equivalents in Win, eg .243 v 6Rem, 7SAUM v 7 WSM.. The Winchester cases often have very short necks, the .300 Win Mag being a good example.

 

Chris-NZ

[Tuck]

My personal choice would be .243AI

 

It will shoot factory .243 ammo if you want to or have to. It can give you more grunt if you want the extra range. The brass seems to last almost forever if you dont load it like you stole it.

 

Its not a bog standard vanilla calibre so has a little something to make it stand out from the crowd

 

Mark

 

 

I have to agree mark I am currently on my 5th 243 ai and I love it! I don't have any problems with big reds! With my ackley. They can be super accurate to! I would definetly reccomend, I have not had a 6mmbr but my mate has had one it was super accurate but lacked a bit of power,(deer) i have also heard good things about the 6mm rem ai, but I have not tryed one but do think 243 ai must be a contender

 

Rob

[Elwood]

You wouldn't want a .244 as a deer gun- its slow twist won't stabilise stuff any bigger than roughly 85gr. You possibly meant the 6 Rem. As later posters have said, the 6mm Rem is a very good chambering.

 

As an aside, "Rem" cases designs are often better than their equivalents in Win, eg .243 v 6Rem, 7SAUM v 7 WSM.. The Winchester cases often have very short necks, the .300 Win Mag being a good example.

 

Chris-NZ

 

I thought the 244 Rem was the 6mm Rem. Remington introduced the .244 which flopped commercially, a few years later they re-introduced it as the 6mm Rem but gave the new rifles a faster twist, the cases remained the same, any how I'm going off topic.

 

If you don't want case forming then .243 or the 6mm Rem, if case forming isn't a problem the the 6 SLR or the 6mmAI.

[Finman]

My personal choice would be .243AI

 

It will shoot factory .243 ammo if you want to or have to. It can give you more grunt if you want the extra range. The brass seems to last almost forever if you dont load it like you stole it.

 

Its not a bog standard vanilla calibre so has a little something to make it stand out from the crowd

 

Mark

 

I'd have thought the same till I read a very informative article a couple of issues back on Precision Shooting, written by Mr. Bob Jourdan, on the merit of AI'ing a cartridge. There he detailed that it does not worth 'improving' a cartridge if the performance does not increase by more than 10% of the 'mother' cartridge. According to his data, the .243 increases its performance by 6% whilst the 7x57 by 17%. Going on the principle that it is the same case as the 6mmRem, it would make a lot more sense to AI the 6mmRem than the .243. Additionally, the geometry of the 7x57 case allows for a better barrel life than the .243 (hence the comment of one of the friends in this discussion that he is on his 5th one!). I'd be interested to know by the shooters with a 6mmRemAI about their experiences with barrel life...

 

I have a feeling that the disastrous marketing strategy that Remington followed when introduced the '.244Rem' with the slow twist barrels allowed for Winchester to fill the market gap with the, in my opinion and I think others as well, much inferior .243Win. The 6mmRem with the faster twist barrels came too late for people to change their minds. In any case, we all have our views. Were it me, I would definitely choose the 6mmRem over the .243Win. But then again, what do I know...?

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

[Chris-NZ]

..

 

I have a feeling that the disastrous marketing strategy that Remington followed when introduced the '.244Rem' with the slow twist barrels allowed for Winchester to fill the market gap with the, in my opinion and I think others as well, much inferior .243Win. The 6mmRem with the faster twist barrels came too late for people to change their minds. In any case, we all have our views. Were it me, I would definitely choose the 6mmRem over the .243Win. ..

best wishes,

 

Finman

 

Correct, and totally agreed.

 

Analogous to the QWERTY keyboard. The Dvorak layout is 500X more logical but mass coverage wins..

 

Chris-NZ

[Elwood]

I I'd be interested to know by the shooters with a 6mmRemAI about their experiences with barrel life...

 

 

Finman

 

Half MOA accuracy up to 800 rounds in a target rifle, I feel a sporting rifle would go a lot further, pure conjecture on my behalf but I would estimate 1500-1800 rounds.

[gbal]

Correct, and totally agreed.

 

Analogous to the QWERTY keyboard. The Dvorak layout is 500X more logical but mass coverage wins..

 

Chris-NZ

HI Chris-not quite-QWERTY was by design not optimal,as the early keyboard mechanicals could not cope with human dexterity.There were no such'artificial' design limits on the 243-Warren Page just necked down the then experimental would be 7.62/308 Nato case (the page pooper).It remains a very fine DUAL purpose cartridge.

Of course there have been improvements-AI version eg ,and 6rem,and a host of semi wildcatted 6s.They are just grand for purpose,though in reality-here foxes and deer,so no great distances-may offer little if any real advantage,and there are no free lunches-for some shooters, wildcat reloading is a joy,for others it would be an expensive drag.So forsome choice will be based not on a couple of extra hundred fps,which are not needed,but on a sound tool,with much convenience and no substantial disadvantage.It's endured because of this-many, many stalkers want such a tool-ammo readily available etc.Barrel life is certainly not less than the Ai versions,and is in the several thousands-thats a lot of shots at deer/foxes.The 'new' 260 rem (6.5 -o8 of course) is a case of a neglected potentially great cartridge,beginning to catch on,but the 243 is what it is( very popular) because it meets so many shooters needs.

I shoot 243s but by no means exclusively-and within its considerable envelope it just does what is claimed for it,and has done for over 50 years.No fuss,no bother.It's even more flexible with recent bullet choice.It may not have 'bling' but it sure does it's thing.It can of course be reloaded to any required degree of finesse-but the point is,you don't have to.By all means let's have the 'specials'-I am guilty too-but recognise that for many shooters(or foxes) the 'advantages' are just not commensurate with the costs,in any of it's senses.

george

PS Fenman,agree about 7x57 and it's offspring 257 rob,6rem,224 clark...but if someone was set on a 308,why not?It's 'family' is pretty good too!

[Chris-NZ]

Yep, the .243 is plain vanilla George but does the biz as you say. I don't own one but load for a guy who does. The last batch had TTSXs and he was very happy how they shot. Just copied factory OAL ;-) With these projectiles, they certainly snot reds over.

 

I had a .260 a while ago but got rid of it largely coz I didn't like the rifle it was in (Mod 7). I do admit it tipped deer over OK but much prefer my current 7-08 which really works great on reds and sika. Nothing basically wrong with the .308 family as you say but that's not to say a bit of variety isn't needed..

 

Chris-NZ

[MJR]

Hey Finman, you traditionalist, what do you know?

.243 for me, easy to load for and if you are buying ammunition then every gunshop in the land will have some, simples. I would be looking for one in a faster twist though, purely for the heavier weight bullets but if you don't intend shooting anything over 90/100gn then stick with 1in 10 twist.

All the other calibres mentioned are great and in many ways better for certain applications than the .243 but none seem as versatile to me.....except perhaps the 6mmslr, that looks really tasty.

[gbal]

Hey Finman, you traditionalist, what do you know?

.243 for me, easy to load for and if you are buying ammunition then every gunshop in the land will have some, simples. I would be looking for one in a faster twist though, purely for the heavier weight bullets but if you don't intend shooting anything over 90/100gn then stick with 1in 10 twist.

All the other calibres mentioned are great and in many ways better for certain applications than the .243 but none seem as versatile to me.....except perhaps the 6mmslr, that looks really tasty.

243 slr-why not,if you want 1 g less capacity (this hypes as 'more efficient',of course)and the 6xc advantages of a slightly longer neck and 30 degree shoulder,which might just have some depth seating gains for heavier dtacs etc.Specialist though,mainly for enthusiasts who explore distinctions without differences or really do find themselves in a field situation where 50fps will be crucial.Field of Ballistic Dreams?If you want a little more,out of the box,get a lazzeroni spitfire,call it a 6.17 which sounds pretty exotic,without the vulgar weatherby 'magnum' label,and is fashionably short and fat.Then enjoy 85g at 3600 fps.(until the improved wildcat version comes along.)

(Keep your 243 for times when 'really quite good' is good enough,or exotic supplies are on back order only.)

george

[Hatzi]

I like shooting, any form of reloading is a chore and although i can see advantages in many calibres the biggest advantage with my 243 is simplicity to source components so other than re-barelling with an 8" twist if i want to shoot heavies, i just feed it 87gr vmax

[TonyH]

I like shooting too - and I love reloading. For me it's an integral part of the sport, hitting small varmints at long range using ammo I've crafted myself. I was studying books on reloading even before I got my first FAC... One of the things I like about my 20 Tac is that there ain't any factory ammo! To shoot it, you have to make your own. I'd take the same approach to a 6mm chambering, and one of my criteria in choosing which particular 6mm would be the reloading options open to me.

I've always known lots of shooters like the .243 Win; I just think there are more stimulating, interesting, useful 6mm rounds out there, especially if one enjoys reloading. And I suspect one big reason for the alleged super popularity of .243 is just that so many dealers have a lot of them, and they prefer the relatively easy job of flogging someone a .243 rather than keeping themselves up to date with alternatives that might be better for particular customers. And they can then flog lots of factory .243 ammo as well...

Tony

[Offroad Gary]

Biggest limiting factor for the 6mm rem AI is the availability of quality brass, my mate is using 6mm rem fireformed but only gets 3 firings before primer pockets are loose, he tried resized brass but couldnt get accuracy, perhaps resizing technique no good? But when your shooting for meat/money whats in the cost of a case?