Foxing rifle

[Gaz]

Hi lads

I'm one of the new boys to ukv .Need some advice on a problem I'm having ( can't make my mind up on a new foxing - varmint rifle ) I've got a sako forester .308 which I could get re-barrelled in what cal I'm not sure ,or sell it and get a .204 .223 poss a t3 super varmint .Most of my foxing would run out to 350 yds max. Any help would be great

[Gaz]

I had a Tikka Super Varmint, it was in .243 and was a decent rifle for its price (£1000). If you have a little more to spend and I were just using this rifle for foxes and other vermin out to 350yds I would go 20cal, possibly in 20br. If you had it chambered to suit the 55grain bergers you would have a fantastic rifle for 350-500yd varminting.

Thanks Ronny

That's my main problem (money) I reckon I've got £800 pounds max to rebarrel or if I part ex my sako I'll have about £1100 .plus I'm the worlds worst to be given a choice

[6.5shooter]

Gaz,

There is no perfect foxing calibre you just have to pick one and dont look back.

20 cal, 22 cal, 243, any of these calibres in any case configuration will do nicely.

I shoot a 220 swift for my main lamping rifle, its a forgotten cartridge and is exceptionally accurate.

Everyone has their favourite and there is no right or wrong.

 

300 yards under lamp is a long way and any of these calibres will do the job.

 

Garry

[andybrock]

Gaz,

There is no perfect foxing calibre you just have to pick one and dont look back.

20 cal, 22 cal, 243, any of these calibres in any case configuration will do nicely.

I shoot a 220 swift for my main lamping rifle, its a forgotten cartridge and is exceptionally accurate.

Everyone has their favourite and there is no right or wrong.

 

300 yards under lamp is a long way and any of these calibres will do the job.

 

Garry

 

Thats about as good advise as you'll get, as Garry said everybody has their favorites, mines 6mm ppc but any modern rifle in the mentioned calibres will do the job.

 

Andy

[Gaz]

Gaz,

There is no perfect foxing calibre you just have to pick one and dont look back.

20 cal, 22 cal, 243, any of these calibres in any case configuration will do nicely.

I shoot a 220 swift for my main lamping rifle, its a forgotten cartridge and is exceptionally accurate.

Everyone has their favourite and there is no right or wrong.

 

300 yards under lamp is a long way and any of these calibres will do the job.

 

Garry

[/quote

Hi 6.5

Thanks for your advise .most of my lamping work is only 100 to 200 with my 243 t3 which I also use for stalking ,so I fancy a rifle for lamping / varmint shooting at a longer range .I do fancy the 204 but don't know anybody that has one ,and would it have the stopping power @ 300yds .I know the t3 super varmint has a 1:8 twist which I think will handle heavier bullets

[6.5shooter]

Gaz,

There are quite a few .204 shooters on here im sure they will chip in and tell you of their rifles.

As for stopping power, jt wont carry as much energy as a big 22 or 6mm but it certainly has more than enough to do the job with good shot placement.

There are a number of .17 centrefire shooters on here who would swear by that cal too.

 

Garry

[247sniper]

Gaz,

There are quite a few .204 shooters on here im sure they will chip in and tell you of their rifles.

As for stopping power, jt wont carry as much energy as a big 22 or 6mm but it certainly has more than enough to do the job with good shot placement.

There are a number of .17 centrefire shooters on here who would swear by that cal too.

 

Garry

 

Hiya mate,

 

I have a .204.. all I can say is awsome. It is a custom with a 1/11 twist barrel. It is super accurate, and ive seen what it does to rabbits out past 300 yards, so a fox will be no problem im sure.

 

As for stopping power, I hear this quite a bit about the 20 cal's not carrying energy at distance and the bullets getting blown around etc. Infact it is quite the oppisite, with the .204 haveing very high Muzzle verlocities combind with suprisingly high BC bullets, the .204 will maintain energy down range better and longer then the larger .22's, certainly flatter and better in the wind, thefore foxes are in trouble.

 

Run the figers and you will see

 

Have a word with Neil Mcillip, for a rebarel... his number is on the home screen on this forum.

 

Hope this helps

Steve.

[baldie]

The .204 is an excellent cartridge Garry and will flatten foxes at those ranges absolutely no problem.

 

I would rebarrel your sako. You could have either a 22-250, or a .243 on that bolt face.

 

Pick a standard cartridge. The main feature you need on a magazine fed gun at night, is reliable feeding. Back up shots are sometimes needed.

 

Exotics are fine , everyone loves to experiment , but a basic standard cartridge will kill foxes just as well, and be reliable for you.

 

300 yards is a very long shot at night. There are probarbly only a couple of lamps that will positively identify a fox at that range at night.

[Ronin]

22-250 would be my choice - rebarreling your existing gun. Would be in budget too. Reloading is cheap and no hard to find componants....

[Gaz]

The .204 is an excellent cartridge Garry and will flatten foxes at those ranges absolutely no problem.

 

I would rebarrel your sako. You could have either a 22-250, or a .243 on that bolt face.

 

Pick a standard cartridge. The main feature you need on a magazine fed gun at night, is reliable feeding. Back up shots are sometimes needed.

 

Exotics are fine , everyone loves to experiment , but a basic standard cartridge will kill foxes just as well, and be reliable for you.

 

300 yards is a very long shot at night. There are probarbly only a couple of lamps that will positively identify a fox at that range at night.

Thanks for your reply

I already have a 243 which I use for lamping and woodland stalking so the distance's vary.So I suppose I'm looking for a rifle purely for foxing/varminting .plus it has to be fairly cheap to run so at the minute I'm leaning towards a 204

[Gaz]

22-250 would be my choice - rebarreling your existing gun. Would be in budget too. Reloading is cheap and no hard to find componants....

Thanks -

The only thing that worries me is the 22-250 runs a bit hot and burns out barrels . I like the idea of the 204 coz it's fairly cheap to reload and it's something a bit different and sounds like it could be fun

[Gaz]

22-250 would be my choice - rebarreling your existing gun. Would be in budget too. Reloading is cheap and no hard to find componants....

Thanks -

The only thing that worries me is the 22-250 runs a bit hot and burns out barrels . I like the idea of the 204 coz it's fairly cheap to reload and it's something a bit different .

[baldie]

The critical first choice you have to make here Garry is whether you want to keep the sako or not. If so, you are stuck with .308 case head cartridges. If you want a .204 you are gonna have to sell it and start again.

 

I killed more foxes with a .204 than any other cartridge, and would take it above everything as a point and shoot 300 yard lamp rifle.

[Gaz]

The critical first choice you have to make here Garry is whether you want to keep the sako or not. If so, you are stuck with .308 case head cartridges. If you want a .204 you are gonna have to sell it and start again.

 

I killed more foxes with a .204 than any other cartridge, and would take it above everything as a point and shoot 300 yard lamp rifle.

That's done it for me 204 it is .Local gun shop has got my sako and should be giving me a price soon cheers gaz

[sir-slots-alot]

Hiya mate,

 

I have a .204.. all I can say is awsome. It is a custom with a 1/11 twist barrel. It is super accurate, and ive seen what it does to rabbits out past 300 yards, so a fox will be no problem im sure.

 

As for stopping power, . the .204 will maintain energy down range better and longer then the larger .22's, certainly flatter and better in the wind, thefore foxes are in trouble.

 

Run the figers and you will see

 

Hope this helps

Steve.

 

 

The 22.250 I run is the most awsome foxing machine I have used - and this includes the 204R.

 

I shot two last week with it - the furthest being 266 yrd - it looked like it had stepped on a landmine - not a gun to use for the taxidermist

 

I am not saying it kills any better than any other of the cals mentioned - but for sheer accuarcy and killing power it is take some beating.

 

 

Here are the figures compared to the 204 R ( both zero'd 100 yrds - in 10 mph cross wind )

 

204

204 Muzzle veloctity = 3850 FPS

Bullet - 40 grn Vmax = BC 0.275

Muzzle energy - = 1313 Ft/lbs

 

400yrds - delivered energy 510 ft/lbs - DROP = 16.5 INS DRIFT = 15.0 INS

 

 

22.250

22.250 Muzzle veloctity = 3360 FPS

Bullet - 75grn amax = BC 0.4.35

Muzzle energy - = 1880 Ft/lbs

 

400yrds - delivered energy 1020 ft/lbs - DROP = 19.1 INS DRIFT = 10.3 INS

 

The 22.250 bullet hits with exactly double the energy of the 20 cal at the same range (according to exbal)

 

It drifts nearly 5 inches less - and only drops an extra 2.6 inches @ 400 yrds.

 

Considering that it will be used as a foxing gun - I wouldn't even consider the shot count. Likely to go at least a couple of thousand rounds Thats alot of damn foxes.

 

If I where you I would have your sako rebarrelled in 22.250 - you will also have a gun caperable of shooting 1000 yrds without too much difficulty - Just a suggestion

 

ATB

Alan

[17 Rem]

Alan,

not a very fair comparison, putting up a heavy for calibre 75 grain .224" projectile up against a standard for calibre 40 grain .204" one.

Try comparing like for like, say 52 or 50 grain .224".....

[sir-slots-alot]

Alan,

 

Now try comparing your 22-250 with 75 grain AMax against the 20br using 55grain bergers. You will be surprised with the results, the 20br will shoot flatter than the 22-250 and have less wind drift too, it will also use less powder and have less recoil.

 

HI Ronny.

I dont know that much about the 20 br using the 55grn Burger bullet

But ok lets try ( to keep you happy )

 

20 BR

Muzzle Velocity - 3500 fps

Bullet - 55 grn Berger - BC - 0.381

Muzzle energy - 1496 ft/lb

 

400 yrds - delivered energy 750 ft/lbs - DROP = 18.3 INS DRIFT = 11.5 INS

 

 

 

22.250

22.250 Muzzle veloctity = 3360 FPS

Bullet - 75grn amax = BC 0.435

Muzzle energy - = 1880 Ft/lbs

 

400 yrds - delivered energy 1020 ft/lbs - DROP = 19.1 INS DRIFT = 10.3 INS

 

 

I am not sure how you would work out the 20 br is significantly better ballistically.

I would think it would be harder on barrels than a 22.250 and alot more effort in case prep.

Whereas the 22.250 has Lapua - Nosler - and Norma cases off the shelf , as well as the cheap stuff.

Then factor in - the 20 BR would need such a tight twist - I shoould imagine it wouldn't be much good with the regular 40 grn bullets.

My 22.250 with it 9 twist is superb with normal 55 grn SBK's

 

Not sure if my velocity figures are correct for the 20 br , as there doesn't seem alot of info out there for it.

 

What is also interesting is the comments concerning velocity from a member who actually runs a 20 Br >> http://ukvarminting.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12870&st=0&p=107829&fromsearch=1entry107829

 

ATB

Alan

[22/250 foxer]

ive been out foxing shooting with different guys off shooting forums who live local to me

 

and we have used 17 fb, 204, 222, 223, 22/250, 22/250 ai, 243, 6mm br

 

so a good number of calibres and dead is dead. they all have there + and - points and I would be happy to shoot with any of the above calibres when out foxing.

average foxing ranges at night is say 200 yards where we go. now all those above rifles are easy up to the job at those ranges

 

dont get me wrong i bet the 20 br and 22br are great accurate calibres etc but I couldn't be doing with case prep for them. if cases where off the shelf like the above calibres [ apart from 22/250 ai ] then maybe i would have one. till then I wouldn't bother

 

i have also notice on the forums in the u.s these 20 br and 22br seam to need pretty long barrels to get the high speeds ?? which is fine if your sat up but out of the jeep can get in the way a bit.

 

 

my rpa 22/250 is putting out the 50 grain nostlers at 3863 fps average over the chrono with 24 inch barrel. its deadly accurate, hard hitting

rifle and my foxing calibre of choice. as alan said you can get top brass off the shelf for it. easy to load and find accurate load for.

 

with a fast twist like alan's for the 75 grain amax you have the choice to load it with 55 grain bullets as a fast foxing round. or load it with the great 75 amax for the longer range stuff.

 

at the moment though me and my mate are using the 17 fireball and 204 rifles alot. they offer great fast and flat shooting with superb accuracy

and if anything more safety as the little 20 grain and 32 grain bullets don't often exit.

 

i am shooting the little 20 grain pills at 4033 fps with great accuracy and little powder usage. since I had the rifle rebarreled it's had 12 foxes up to 175 yards. and they have all dropped with boiler room shots. the rifle does it with not to much noise, and recoil like a hmr

 

if I am honest the 17 does it all really for any vermin and fox. if shooting over 200 yards with one though I would go for a 9 twist for the 25 vmax bullets. some people really slag off the 17 rifles. and some people i have spoke to who have them seam to hype them up so i had to get one ! and i can tell you now there superb and wish i had one sooner.

[247sniper]

Alan,

 

Now try comparing your 22-250 with 75 grain AMax against the 20br using 55grain bergers. You will be surprised with the results, the 20br will shoot flatter than the 22-250 and have less wind drift too, it will also use less powder and have less recoil.

 

Thats the thing about the .204, Im not starting a pissing competition guys but the .204 isnt a million miles behind Alans .22-250 when it come to POI at 400 yards. There is with muzzel energy yes but how much energy do you want to kill a fox....dead is dead isnt it?. The .204 is still flatter, theres not a lot off differance between windage concidering Alans 250 is shooting very high BC bullets twice the weight and a lot more powder to achive it.

 

But like mensioned above, a .20 br or even my .204 with its fast twist barrel using 55 grain bergers, its a different story.

 

Steve.

[AnthonyR]

I agree with Jamie's post all these calibres are perfectly capable, but like Jamie I don't want to spend any more time reloading than I have to and I have also heard of mag feeding issues with BR based rifles, for this reason I use a 22-250 (26" barrel 53gr V-Max) for my foxing most of time and I am having a 20 Tac made with a short barrel to shoot out of the truck window to largely replace my HMR.

 

You can get excellent brass of the shelf for both calibres, so hopefully less time reloading and more time shooting.

[Frank 25-06]

Hello to all at this forum.

I have just recently found this site and it looks like I will find many interesting debates in time to come.

There seems to be a wealth of experience out there.

Regards

Frank

[sir-slots-alot]

Alan,

not a very fair comparison, putting up a heavy for calibre 75 grain .224" projectile up against a standard for calibre 40 grain .204" one.

 

Try comparing like for like, say 52 or 50 grain .224".....

 

 

I disagree

 

I think it is a fair comparision - nearly every post I read about the 20 cal - someone says the 20 cal bullets have a far better BC than the equivelent 22 bullets.

 

So how do you class " Like for Like " - it doesn't seem fair to compare a 40 grn in 20 cal - which is quite a heavy bullet for that calibre - Against a 40 grn bullet in 224 cal ( which is near bottom of the bullet weights for that calibre )

 

When I then add the propersition of a 224 bullet being used with a BC higher than the 20 cal bullets have - There are crys of " NO FAIR "

 

Am I not knocking the 20 cal at all - in fact I have a barrel on order right now - and will soon be joining the 20 cal club.

 

I am merely giving the OP an option to consider when he thinks of which calibre to go foxing with,

 

The 20 cal and 22 cal will all kill foxes cleanly - take yer pick

 

 

ATB

Alan

[matchking]

I use a 220 swift with either 52gr a max or 50gr blitzkings.This is an awsome calibre and will drop charlie on the spot out to 350 yards with no problems.Does it kill them any deader than my brothers .22.250? no but i love it.I also have an 8 twist .22.250 shooting 75gr a max.This is a absolutly fantastic combination kills things deader than dead.As i have said in the past the hotter 22 cals seem to kill them better than the 20 cals in my expierience from shooting a 20br.Is barrel life really an issue with a foxing rifle?And also the fact that a swift uses 40 odd grains of powder and a 20 cal uses 30 odd grains. I know times are hard but how many rounds are you going to be shooting?If you shoot 500 a year youre going some a well looked after swift or 22.250 will last you years.As with most things bigger is better

ATB SEAN

[6.5shooter]

I know I certainly wont be giving up my swift for a 204 anytime soon.

6x284, now that is a foxing calibre!!!!!

[17 Rem]

 

 

So how do you class " Like for Like " - it doesn't seem fair to compare a 40 grn in 20 cal - which is quite a heavy bullet for that calibre - Against a 40 grn bullet in 224 cal ( which is near bottom of the bullet weights for that calibre )

 

 

Alan, İ suggest you read my post properly. İ did not suggest a 40 grain .224" versus 40 grain .204" comparison. Not sure you could realistically argue that 40 grains is heavy for the. .204 calibre either.