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To neck turn or not to neck turn

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I just read using the expander mandril is for using on new brass.once they have been fired they would need sizing down before using the mandril to minimise neck tension.

To be honest I thought the Mandril's fractionally over sized the brass so that the neckturner fitted perfectly for neck turning.so this leads me too the mandril for the neck turner must be a fraction smaller then to allow the case to spin around it.

Or are the expander mandril I have are for the purpose I bought them for and I need the correct expander mandril to reduce the next tension?

I wasn't told to use it to reduce neck tension. I have used the 6.5 mandril for ironing out inward dents on rim of the necks rather than put them through the sizer.

I ran them a fraction over the mandril.not all the way over the mandril

Can somebody correct me where I am wrong please.

No I deer

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The relationship between your fired case neck diameter - the sized case neck diameter - the up-size mandrel for chosen neck-tension and to correctly fit the neck-turner mandrel, are all variables that you must work out for yourself - to suit YOUR rifle.

The neck-turning is normally done once - on your new brass.  Your new brass may or may not be a snug fit on the neck-turner mandrel - obviously it should be snug - but not tight. Adjust with the correct mandrel.

After giving the neck-turned cases a first firing, you can then sort out the correct bushing which will give you your preferred neck-tension.

To be honest - this is why neck-turning just ain't worth it - unless you are shooting serious benchrest competition but, once you get set up with the correct mandrels/bushes, the process becomes much easier.  I use two, pre-set neck-turners - the first one removes the bulk of the brass, the second gives a one thou. finishing cut.

Unfortunately, the reloader often thinks neck-turning will somehow produce better accuracy.  If done correctly, in a tight-neck chamber in a match barrel, it most certainly will but, in a factory barrel - pointless.

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Ive measured my k&m Mandril's.

The 6.5 expander is 0.264

The 7mm expander is 0.284

So where is the neck tension unless the brass springs back 1 or 2 thousandths......?

The neck turning mandrills are 

0.2635 

0.283

I have no fl sized brass to measure as its all away for annealing.

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6 minutes ago, The Gun Pimp said:

The relationship between your fired case neck diameter - the sized case neck diameter - the up-size mandrel for chosen neck-tension and to correctly fit the neck-turner mandrel, are all variables that you must work out for yourself - to suit YOUR rifle.

The neck-turning is normally done once - on your new brass.  Your new brass may or may not be a snug fit on the neck-turner mandrel - obviously it should be snug - but not tight. Adjust with the correct mandrel.

After giving the neck-turned cases a first firing, you can then sort out the correct bushing which will give you your preferred neck-tension.

To be honest - this is why neck-turning just ain't worth it - unless you are shooting serious benchrest competition but, once you get set up with the correct mandrels/bushes, the process becomes much easier.  I use two, pre-set neck-turners - the first one removes the bulk of the brass, the second gives a one thou. finishing cut.

Unfortunately, the reloader often thinks neck-turning will somehow produce better accuracy.  If done correctly, in a tight-neck chamber in a match barrel, it most certainly will but, in a factory barrel - pointless.

Hi Vince.

My 284 is a bartlein tight neck f class chamber.0.314 

My original 7mm saum barrel was a non saami spec f class chamber being it had a short neck.I didn't know this until I asked the shooter I bought it from for case trim length who gave me the smiths number who built it that you more than likely know pretty well I imagine.both of them actually.

My new 7mm saum barrel is bartlein an F class chambering.it's either a 0.314 or 0.315 saami spec chambering.

As I had to buy the neck turning kit for my 284 it doesn't really matter that the other chambering are tight necks.if I get the extra little bit of accuracy from it them ive earned it from my extra effort in case prep.thanks for your reply Vince :D

 

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7 hours ago, No i deer said:

Why not just adjust the die in or out to achieve the correct shoulder bump or am I missing something.

I will say that the comp seater seems a something to nothing gimic if die is adjustable but then they do call me No I deer :D

You can as you say simply faff around with the die but you will be using full stroke and over centre with the arm,,,,with a set of incremental shell holders you can arrive at the correct one to bump just enough and they are not dependant on using full swing of the arm,,,,you can position the FLS die pretty much anywhere as long as you have enough leverage to easily bump,,,Works the same every time,,,easy

A comp seater is not really a gimic but they are expensive,,,,nice to use though and a bit quicker to arrive at correct seating depth using the micrometer markings,,,,,,,,ie if you need to seat a few more thou just dial it in and they are very accurate or at least my Reddings are.

Using quality reloading gear is a joy to use but yes you can pretty much achieve the same results or close with standard gear,,,,I,ve made very accurate rounds on "Lee" gear in the past and still do for my 223.

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1 hour ago, No i deer said:

Ive measured my k&m Mandril's.

The 6.5 expander is 0.264

The 7mm expander is 0.284

So where is the neck tension unless the brass springs back 1 or 2 thousandths......?

The neck turning mandrills are 

0.2635 

0.283

I have no fl sized brass to measure as its all away for annealing.

It will spring back a little - but, if it's not giving sufficient neck-tension, it's just a matter of taking a thou. or two off the mandrel - easy to do in a lathe with a bit of emery cloth.

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59 minutes ago, The Gun Pimp said:

It will spring back a little - but, if it's not giving sufficient neck-tension, it's just a matter of taking a thou. or two off the mandrel - easy to do in a lathe with a bit of emery cloth.

Thanks for replies chaps.my redding dies are competition seaters and bushings.

When I get my brass back I will check what spring back I get.

With the measurements I took and posted there isn't a lot of room for error fine tuning them.if I did then my expander Mandril's won't be no good for expanding new brass.you experts do fry my little brain sometimes.soooo much to know :wacko:

2 hours ago, The Gun Pimp said:

The relationship between your fired case neck diameter - the sized case neck diameter - the up-size mandrel for chosen neck-tension and to correctly fit the neck-turner mandrel, are all variables that you must work out for yourself - to suit YOUR rifle.

The neck-turning is normally done once - on your new brass.  Your new brass may or may not be a snug fit on the neck-turner mandrel - obviously it should be snug - but not tight. Adjust with the correct mandrel.

After giving the neck-turned cases a first firing, you can then sort out the correct bushing which will give you your preferred neck-tension.

To be honest - this is why neck-turning just ain't worth it - unless you are shooting serious benchrest competition but, once you get set up with the correct mandrels/bushes, the process becomes much easier.  I use two, pre-set neck-turners - the first one removes the bulk of the brass, the second gives a one thou. finishing cut.

Unfortunately, the reloader often thinks neck-turning will somehow produce better accuracy.  If done correctly, in a tight-neck chamber in a match barrel, it most certainly will but, in a factory barrel - pointless.

Hi Vince.

My 284 is a bartlein tight neck f class chamber.0.314 

My original 7mm saum barrel was a non saami spec f class chamber being it had a short neck.I didn't know this until I asked the shooter I bought it from for case trim length who gave me the smiths number who built it that you more than likely know pretty well I imagine.both of them actually.

My new 7mm saum barrel is bartlein an F class chambering.it's either a 0.314 or 0.315 saami spec chambering.

As I had to buy the neck turning kit for my 284 it doesn't really matter that the other chambering are tight necks.if I get the extra little bit of accuracy from it them ive earned it from my extra effort in case prep.thanks for your reply Vince :D

 

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3 hours ago, No i deer said:

Ive measured my k&m Mandril's.

The 6.5 expander is 0.264

The 7mm expander is 0.284

So where is the neck tension unless the brass springs back 1 or 2 thousandths......?

The neck turning mandrills are 

0.2635 

0.283

I have no fl sized brass to measure as its all away for annealing.

 This concerned me a little too . 

 I have since spoken to Spud and have ordered one of the custom mandrels specifically to give 0.002" neck tension. Problem solved in that respect, I look forward to its arrival .;)

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HERE IS A LINK TO THEM IVE ONLY JUST PUT THEM ON THE SITE BUT ALL GOOD NOW 

 

https://www.1967spud.com/shop/km/km-custom-diameter-expand-mandrels/

 

WE GET THEMIN TO ORDER AT THE MOMENT 

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Thanks spud.

Put me down for a 6.5 cal one with the least neck tension 0.0015 please.I think ive got enough for one of them in my reloading room but only just :D.

Oh i just found a little more room and a smaller expander ball to retain the decapping pin for my Forster 6.5x47 br fl sizer.

What do the experts say on what's the best neck tension.

Cheers No I deer 

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Actually spud.hold fire on my order as I've found some brass i forgot was there.lapua 6.5x47 brass that' prepped and it's Internal measures 0.2625 .i am bloody good but I lack in confidence :P

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Many thanks for all the  excellent advice given on the subject and the extra that I taged on as it were.

im booking a reloading cours in the new year  despite reloading for several years I  don't know enough to get the best by F class rifles so it will be time well spent .

Happy new year to one and all 

Montey 

 

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Ive been reloading for 16 years but only been target shooting for 6 years and learnt alot over the last 4 years some by making my own mistakes .some from inadequte information/misunderstood info and some from faulty equipment.who would expect to get 2 consecutive dies that were faulty i took for granted was premium precision reloading tools.if your not making mistakes your not doing anything.its a Happy  New year from the No I deers :D

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53 minutes ago, No i deer said:

Actually spud.hold fire on my order as I've found some brass i forgot was there.lapua 6.5x47 brass that' prepped and it's Internal measures 0.2625 .i am bloody good but I lack in confidence :P

IVE ORDERED THE PART NOW 

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An inexperienced reloader might find a use for it :P.

Somebody will want it ;)

Let me know when it arrives and I will ring and pay.

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Sorry to say but if ordering from spud make sure its in stock first ,lots of gear online doesnt seem to be ready to dispatch ,.waited for my order to be fulfilled in march with problems re RCBS order so asked to change to TAB gear, order in december still hadnt arrived ,so had my order  changed to berger bullets order which came ok when finally in stock  january .tab gear found at LODOCK gear in december and was delivered in 3 days rather than 8 months wait.Dont pay money up front if not in stock . Hannams reloading will put you on a waiting list then email when actually in stock ready to be ordered if you deal by phone rather than web order .

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