Tactical ultra light

[ejg223]

A few weeks ago a Swedish hunter researched the market for an ultra light tactical stock. Someone on

Snipers Hide pushed him in our direction. Luck was we had a mould for an A5 that we are using for development

work and such a project was on our mind anyway.

My guess was that we could get an A5 clone down to around 800 grams as it goes on the rifle, well that was before

he mentioned that he wanted an adjustable cheek piece.

 

In this case the customer will inlet the action area himself and fit his custom long action 308 Norma mag into the stock.

 

We made the stock with very high quality carbon fiber and added layers of Kevlar in the critical areas. A big advantage compared to conventional fiberglass stocks is that on this stock the barrel channel and action area has a layer of carbon increasing the stiffness and torsion stiffness.

 

Total weight for this tactical stock, 877 grams. This includes butt pad, 3 swivel studs, epoxy primer, adjustable cheek raiser and metal bits.

I presume the inlet milling will get the weight down to around 800 grams, which is better than expected.

 

We are now working on a new design prototype which will be have a few changes in shape and be inlet for Remington 700 style actions.

We will be able to produce them ultra light as well.

edi

 

[devilishdave]

Looks good, what sort of price does it come in at?

 

Dave

[TonyH]

Looks good, what sort of price does it come in at?

 

Dave

You might not want to know... But I'm curious too. It's an impressive piece of stock design, strikingly lightweight for its style. I personally don't like the look of that rollover cheek piece, or the texturing on the forearm and pistol grip, bit too ornate; but as an exercise in high-tech it's very good. What is the brand name? Who distributes these stocks in UK?

Tony

[NICK]

EJG.

Anything for us lefties?

 

NICK.

[ejg223]

You might not want to know... But I'm curious too. It's an impressive piece of stock design, strikingly lightweight for its style. I personally don't like the look of that rollover cheek piece, or the texturing on the forearm and pistol grip, bit too ornate; but as an exercise in high-tech it's very good. What is the brand name? Who distributes these stocks in UK?

Tony

 

The customer asked for the texturing in these positions. I wouldn't have had it at the bottom of the forend. Then again it'll be used for

hunting. I'm not sure about the cheek piece either, but it works, one can turn it around to left hand and add some lines to find the

favourite height again. For our production stock we'll rethink the adjustable cheek piece again, we have several designs drawn up but

none really ticked all boxes. Don't forget from the first idea to the doorstep in Sweden this stock took under 4 weeks.

 

One could not put a value on this one off, swollowed plenty hours but as you see even with the cheek piece plenty

has been learnt. Customer got it very reasonable, don't worry.

In future the production stocks will be inlet moulded, increasing strength and reducing man hours.

 

Price wise our goal would be to have the Tac stock, drop in with an adjustable cheek piece, swivel studs and buttpad fitted retail

for around 600 Euro.

At the moment one can contact us directly, we don't have any distribution yet.

edi

[Ronin]

The stock looks good,

 

the use of high tec carbon is great and its made here.

 

 

Gets my vote,

 

 

however,,,, I prefer an ajustable cheek on pillars rather than the saddle type.

 

 

On the subject of inlets Edie,

 

 

are the barrel channels pre inletted and the actions left blank or is the whole stock un inletted?

 

 

Just wondering as I get asked quite a bit for alternatives to Mac and the other offerings...

 

 

This may be the answer and having used your stocks before on Howa's. I anticipate they will be excellent quality, hardwearing and good value.

[Bambi-basher]

Nice work Edi, you are getting good at this stock job.

 

ATB

 

B-b

[ejg223]

Thanks for the replies,

Ronin, this particular mould is of conventional make. Similar to what the

other stock makers have. This mean the stock comes out of the mould without inlet

or barrel channel. I can sell the raw blank like that to people who have someone to inlet.

It is a cheaper way of possibly fitting some exotic.

On the stock for the swedish fella I received the barrel profile measurements and could grind out

the stock with hand tools....We are not set up to inlet.

One can make these either heavy or light, we've made em between 750 gram and 1700gram.

 

The tac stock that we are planing for production will be inlet for a thick barrel and a remmy 700 profile.

These will be inlet moulded like our hunter stocks and don't require any milling, I presume we'll be ready end september.

 

By the way we've moved on a bit since that howa stock you had, that was the first stock we ever made

 

Nick nothing for lefty yet, but you could always start with blank stock if you know someone who can mill.

Not as bad as one thinks, just mill all a bit bigger and devcon bed in position.

 

Thanks B-b, pity you're not at CLA

 

edi

[Gandy]

looks a cracking bit of kit

[brown dog]

Edi,

 

Handled one of your 'normal' stocks today. Really impressed.

This A5 looks great too....one idea:

I think most agree that the A5 pistol grip is too fat -might want to think about thinning it a little a la manners.

Agree with Ronin on the pillar-type cheekpiece -copying the AW method would be lightweight and simple.

 

...and please don't forget T3s.....and lefthanded ones at that

[ejg223]

Edi,

 

Handled one of your 'normal' stocks today. Really impressed.

This A5 looks great too....one idea:

I think most agree that the A5 pistol grip is too fat -might want to think about thinning it a little a la manners.

Agree with Ronin on the pillar-type cheekpiece -copying the AW method would be lightweight and simple.

 

...and please don't forget T3s.....and lefthanded ones at that

 

Thanks,

the fat pistol grip would be my first problem with an A5 too, good that you mention it.

Problem is, I don't target shoot nor am I an expert on tactical stocks.

In the prototype stage I'll throw up some pictures for discussion.

Having fun at the CLA at the moment.

 

edi

[baldie]

Most people who handle the manners in the shop comment that the grip is too THIN. I,ve never heard anyone comment that an A5 is too fat ?

The A5 grip positions the trigger finger better than any other stock i,ve ever come across personally. I do have large hands however.

 

On a separate subject Edi, i dont understand your pre-occupation with weight. Its not, and never has really been an issue on a tactical rifle.Stalking guns ...yes, tactical...no.

I have two mcmillan edge A5,s in the shop i can't shift. No one wants them at the side of a normal A5.

Lack of weight in a tactical rifle will equate to a lack of long range accuracy.

[brown dog]

I,ve never heard anyone comment that an A5 is too fat ?

 

Well, I think the A5 pistol grip feels like it was modelled to feel like holding an apple with the bottom centimetre sliced off

[ejg223]

Most people who handle the manners in the shop comment that the grip is too THIN. I,ve never heard anyone comment that an A5 is too fat ?

The A5 grip positions the trigger finger better than any other stock i,ve ever come across personally. I do have large hands however.

 

On a separate subject Edi, i dont understand your pre-occupation with weight. Its not, and never has really been an issue on a tactical rifle.Stalking guns ...yes, tactical...no.

I have two mcmillan edge A5,s in the shop i can't shift. No one wants them at the side of a normal A5.

Lack of weight in a tactical rifle will equate to a lack of long range accuracy.

 

Baldie,

it's fairly simple. A tactical rifle is made mainly for outside use, meaning it should be mobile.

Weight is against being mobile.

Performance... if a lighter rifle shoots as well as a heavier rifle, then the lighter rifle has more performance.

Our job is to seek performance.

 

If we at PSE learn to make light weight stiff and strong stocks we then have the advantage of:

 

1) we can not only add weight if desired, But!!! at the right place and influence recoil and balance.

2) If needed we can make an even stronger stock at weights similar to previous stocks.

3) At the same overall weight as previous rifles one could fit a thicker barrel, bigger mag or better scope and so on..

 

Believe me, if not now, then tomorrow our customers will be looking for more performance.

 

edi

[baldie]

Baldie,

it's fairly simple. A tactical rifle is made mainly for outside use, meaning it should be mobile.

Weight is against being mobile.

Performance... if a lighter rifle shoots as well as a heavier rifle, then the lighter rifle has more performance.

Our job is to seek performance.

 

If we at PSE learn to make light weight stiff and strong stocks we then have the advantage of:

 

1) we can not only add weight if desired, But!!! at the right place and influence recoil and balance.

2) If needed we can make an even stronger stock at weights similar to previous stocks.

3) At the same overall weight as previous rifles one could fit a thicker barrel, bigger mag or better scope and so on..

 

Believe me, if not now, then tomorrow our customers will be looking for more performance.

 

edi

 

 

Lightweight rifles dont perform the same at extreme range as heavyweight rifles Edi...thats a fact.

Tactical rifles in the correct calibre have to be at least 600 if not a 1000 yards capable....more in the heavier calibres. Heavy calibres mean heavy recoil....all the more in a lightweight stock, that means a more unmanageable gun therefore less accurate.

 

My customers tell me they dont want lightweight stocks on tactical rifles...as the two lightweights gathering dust testify.

 

Good luck with them.

[ejg223]

Lightweight rifles dont perform the same at extreme range as heavyweight rifles Edi...thats a fact.

Tactical rifles in the correct calibre have to be at least 600 if not a 1000 yards capable....more in the heavier calibres. Heavy calibres mean heavy recoil....all the more in a lightweight stock, that means a more unmanageable gun therefore less accurate.

 

My customers tell me they dont want lightweight stocks on tactical rifles...as the two lightweights gathering dust testify.

 

Good luck with them.

 

Baldie you are missunderstanding,

lets say a customer wants a 10 lb rifle built. You can do that with

a thin barrel and a heavy stock or with a light stock and a heavy barrel.

These two will not be equally accurate. Why build a less accurate rifle.

 

If you want a 3 lb stock, you can get it made to 3lb or you can take a

2lb stock and add 1 lb of weight exactly where you want it to tune your balance and/ or

counter flip on recoil.

 

Bit like racing cars, make em lighter than spec and add weight where it is most beneficial to handling.

 

The next step (maybe only small steps) would then be to develope methods of reducing overall weight without loosing accuracy.

Possibly by using barrel materials that cool better, more effective muzzle breaks and so on.

 

Just because we can build light stocks doesn't mean we can't build heavy stocks.

 

edi

[AndyCM]

I am a new fan of Edi's stocks too

 

Here is my Remington .223 Tactical sitting in a light PSE stock - my first time bedding a stock too and it went very well (if exceedingly slowly)

 

Saved 400g / 14oz on the original

 

 

 

 

I think my next rifle will be in a PSE stock

 

Cheers

AndyCM

[Chris-NZ]

I take Dave's point but I'd put any weight saved on the stock into a heavier profile or longer barrel. That's useful weight.

 

Getting hammered by big cals in light rifles is not conducive to accuracy, even if you can "handle it".

 

Chris-NZ

[baldie]

What do i know, i only build tactical rifle,s for a living.

Good luck.

[Ronin]

There may be a subtle difference bettween a "tactical" stalking (walk around) rifle and a tactical range / competition gun.

 

 

If the rifle is too light, recoil becomes an issue (muzzle flip, loss of sight picture etc) especially in comps where one cannot use brakes.

 

One has also to consider instability - if the stock is too light and you have 2lbs of scope above a heavy barrelled action - its top heavy. Shoot a comp where there are positional changes / movement and it would become clear very quickly the kits limitations.

 

Edi has a point, a light stock made of strong materials is a fine starting point and he is to be commended for making this here.

 

One thing ive pulled from this is that weight can be added where needed to compensate for the lightweight materials and add mass to the stock.

 

So by adding half a pound to the forend and a poun d to the butt, one has a solid, balanced product that may give you the advantage of something not as finely tuned.

 

Dave also has a point that lightweight stocks aren't wanted by people going for tactical builds - but preferances change, I think that Edi could be onto something with these.

 

The use of an underslung bipod - eg SAKO TRG, would turn the tables on a lightweight rig IMHO allowing fast follow up and re set without the issue of being unstable although an alternative to the TRG bipod would be needed to be on sale as the original is pretty prohibitive at present.

[ejg223]

Hi Andy,

rifle is looking good.

I presume you chopped all that wood while waiting for your stock

 

Ronin,

that is of course right.

For us the goal is to make a stock better for the purpose.

If heavy is better, then we could even fill the sucker with tungsten if we need to.

 

It is technically more challenging to make something light and strong than heavy and just as strong.

 

edi

[Scotch_egg]

I for one like the idea of build light then add the weight where I want it.

 

 

Ronin how about this for a TRG style bi pod. Made in the uk!

 

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthread...;gonew=1#UNREAD

[Ronin]

Nice, but not quite what I had in mind;

 

 

what I was thinking was something that is supported from above the boreline of the barrel - "suspended" in other words.

 

 

I intend to use the production version of this stock for my next project:

 

 

Sorry its a small pic,

 

 

 

 

 

Now to return to the original subject;

 

 

 

Edi's tactical stocks