Long range calibres

[CliveWard]

Hi All,

 

I'm interested in putting together a long range rifle in the new year for 1000m+.

 

So what are the options?

 

I know there are some interesting 6.5mm and 7mm about using VLD bullets.

 

I'm also looking a .30 magnums...the .30-378 is appealing at the moment

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Clive

[Chris-NZ]

A basic question - what are you shooting at? Paper or fur?

If fur, up to what size?

 

Chris-NZ

[Ronin]

Shoot and own several long range rifles,

 

 

6.5x47, 6.5x284, 7mm WSM and 338LM

 

 

All have merits,

 

 

Nothing out performs the 338LM at extended range.

 

 

Unless of course you go larger....

 

 

All others pale into insignificance behind the 338 if there is a wind.

 

Closest rival would be a 7mm with 180 bergers.

 

 

If you have the funds, land and itch - 338 is the way to go.

[baldie]

+1 on the .338lm.

I find its the gun that comes out of the cabinet first if the wind is blowing, plus i just love to shoot the thing.

I spent a very pleasant day recently up at warcop with Ronin, just spotting, dialling in, then repeatedly hitting small rocks etc at 1000 yards. A very capable calibre, and pleasant to shoot when braked efficiently.

[Ballistic Hamster]

How about a .22 B/R !!!

 

l know you want one !!!

 

Only 32 grians of powder !

 

and does a 1000 yds +

 

with a 75 amax

 

cheap as chips to load and shoot .

 

Enjoy you choice and of course the banter !!!!

[Ronin]

22BR

 

had a feelng you'd come back with that Trig

 

 

 

Yes it works well in experienced and capable hands.

 

 

But compare the dope bettween 75g A-Max and a 250g SMK in a 25MPH crosswind at 1k

 

 

Only one winner

 

 

Extreme, I know

[CliveWard]

Ronin and Baldie,

 

Don't get me started on the .338

 

I missed out on a brand new Blaser for silly money a few months ago.

 

Only to be chatting to my friend who dropped into conversation I could have had his TRG for a song as he part exed it a week or so ago!

 

I've shot the .338 and it is indeed extremely capable and I've had some fun with them and I would certainly consider it.

 

The reason I'm interested in the .30 cal magnums is that there's more likelyhood of it being useable in the field (from a paperwork perspective) than the .338LM. Being able to load develop off the range would be quite a bonus.

 

That's the appeal of the .30-378, being the oomphiest .30

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Clive

[sean c]

+1 for the .338 i love shooting it but the only thing that is a little bit of a pain is doing load development. At least once thats done its all good fun after.

[baldie]

I would try and have a few shots with the .30-378 Clive if you can. It has a reputation for being extremely spiteful.

Considered a .300 rem ultra mag ? I,ve built 3 in the 12 months, and all are used for red deer, sometimes at long range, and it poleaxes them apparently.

[CliveWard]

Baldie,

 

I am considering the .300 RUM and I was seriously looking at one a year ago but went for a .308 instead.

 

More research needed

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Clive

[njc110381]

Baldie - How reliable are the .300 RUMs? I've heard that they can suffer ejection problems due to the head being smaller then the actual powder holding part of the case (sorry about the retarded description!)? Other than that they look quite interesting.

[Tiff]

.30-338 LM /.300 LM is what your after. Stay away from the .300 RUM, it is a reasonable round, but is seriously let down by the RUBBISH Remington brass and extremely expensive and soft nosler. To get the most from the round you have too push it at pressure that the case or a remy 700 was never designed to. Also the .30-378 is poor on brass selection and is too overbored to make use of the powder. Whereas the Lapua .338 brass is a pleasure to work with and was designed around the higher pressures.

 

A .30-338 will beat the 250 .338 pills easily and is not far off a 300grain .338 bullet. I can safely within pressures push a 240 grain B.C. .710 240 MK at 3,000+ fps. It's lot easier to get a .30 magnum for field use. Plus it is ok to shoot at ranges like Bisley etc since it is under 7,000j and sub .338.

 

If your ever down this way, your more than welcome to try mine.

 

Here's a quick video from some load development:

 

A rapid fire 1,000 yard group in guesty conditions at Senny:

Cheers Tiff

[dannyt]

300 338 go for it

[neil]

hi

will the 6.5x55 swedish go to 1000m

neil

[baldie]

Non of the three chaps i,ve built .300 rum,s are having any brass problems Tiff?

The 300 rum was actually designed by remington, purposely to be used on their standard magnum bolt face, hence the rebated rim, and not the classic belt of a magnum.

It has a higher cip piezo pressure limit [ 448 mpa, or 64500 psi] than the 30-378 weatherby magum [440mpa, or 63800 psi] and thats a belted case. The action is certainly strong enough to handle the cartridge.

I agree with you on the 30-338. Its something i would like to try myself at some point. Its only downside is its horrendously short barrel life...which is reputedly under 1000 rounds on a competitive rifle. That makes ME wince, and i fit my own.

[Chris-NZ]

... the 30-338...... only downside is its horrendously short barrel life...which is reputedly under 1000 rounds on a competitive rifle. That makes ME wince, and i fit my own.

 

 

That's not a helluva lot worse than the 6.5-284s Dave

[Andrew]

I have a 308 Norma Magnum which is ballistically identical to the 30-338. I haven't put mine through the paces yet but I know it will do the job at long range.~Andrew

[Andrew]

I have a 308 Norma Magnum which is ballistically identical to the 30-338. I haven't put mine through the paces yet but I know it will do the job at long range.~Andrew

[Ratwhiskers]

22BR

 

had a feelng you'd come back with that Trig

 

 

 

Yes it works well in experienced and capable hands.

 

 

But compare the dope bettween 75g A-Max and a 250g SMK in a 25MPH crosswind at 1k

 

 

Only one winner

 

 

Extreme, I know

 

Andy,

 

l think Trig's got you by the tighty whitey's there mate

 

How much does it cost you to fling a 338 down range these days???

 

l keep coming up against these posts now and again, and try to avoid getting involved like the plague (but hey, it's chrimbo and l'm bored!!)

 

So........ l'll just leave you to ponder this thought ('s)

 

Our elders and in some cases our betters, assaulted each other at the same ranges with what some now consider to be inferior calibres and cartridges. They learned to use to best advantage what they had at the time, and to make hits that have since become in some cases legend.

 

My point is this.....

 

We are all involved in an ever increasing arms race, all be it on a smaller scale and hopefully among friends. So regardless of what we have or what we can afford, it's all down to personal choice and skill.

 

Yes, big 7's and 30/338's will get you there quicker and with less climatic interference, but a hole's a hole in the long range game.

 

By the way.... http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek096.html (regardless of the kit of parts, it;s still just the lowly .308win)

 

Right, l'll just go and get the popcorn and cola

 

Ratty.

....

[Foxshooter]

I shoot .300Winmag with 210gr Berger VLDs

 

I fancied a .338 but in these parts its difficult to find a suitable range to use it on.

 

Stanta had issues with anti material calibres bigger than .308 due to low flying on the Mildenhall and Lakenheath approaches.

 

Barton Road wont take .338 either in spite what any of the ROA may claim

 

Thetford Gallery used to take .300Winmag until the HME restrictions came in

 

Mark

[baldie]

Good link that Ratty. I read it the other night. Just goes to show doesn,t it, that money cant buy success. That rifle is nothing special, in a stock that most people wouldn,t look twice at.

 

The simple fact is....the man can shoot.

 

Doesn,t make a whole deal of difference what we civilians shoot. Unfortunatly in the world of competition, the mere mortal shooter HAS to keep up with the arm,s race....just to stay competitive. Then a chap like that comes along.

[brown dog]

I'm missing the point here I think

 

To my mind, he hasn't exactly done it with shite kit: A hand-bedded Barnard action, 32" truflite, custom bipod etc grouping in the 0.1s at 100 - pretty much state of the art. The only thing that's an 'unusual' choice is the choate stock -but he explains that he chose it because it fits his personal style.

 

It's the purpose built nature of F/TR rifles that (amongst a few other things) puts me off trying F/TR.

 

When I first read of it I naively imagined it to be a discipline aimed at those with varmint/heavy sporting/tactical rifles (I certainly believe that was the original intention of the sport).

 

.....but the wallet race that seems to underpin F Class (to my jaundiced eye ) means that it has evolved in such a way that only purpose built rifles (such as this one) are competitive (unless anyone can list additional uses for 32" barreled scoped 308s built on single shot actions?! ).

 

That said; the fellow must outstandingly consistent in all he does both in preparation and execution.....as well as read wind like a Jedi

[Ronin]

Jedi wind reading indeed, its positively spectoral to watch Russ's target markers as they pop back up...

 

 

V-bull, V-bull, V-bull, etc etc etc etc .......

 

 

All done with "humble 308"

 

I would think that he's really pushing the 155's hard.

 

Anyway, respect to the man, he can indeed shoot.

 

 

Long range calibres;

 

yes any (most) will get you to 1000 (if that is the long range benchmark)

 

To some its medium range, to others its extreme range.

 

 

Trigger 2 has demonstrated that even the mere 22BR will get you beyond 1000 and be accurate / consistant.

 

A 223 will, likewise a 22-250 with the right bullets.

 

So any and I mean any calibre including and larger than these will get you there (so long as theyre supersonic).

 

 

What we have to overcome is wind, easy........it is not.

 

 

So we use high velocity calibres and high BC bullets to overcome OUR, not the calibres limitations.

 

 

F Class has been mentioned, this the one competition I have committed myself to in the UK other than travelling abroad:

 

 

In F Class I use a 7mm/300WSM and its stoked to as fast as it will safely go in all UK temp conditions with very high BC bullets, barrel life is not expected to be great.

 

The only way I can afford to enter F Class is because I build my own rifles.

 

I compete against rifles built by some of the top smiths in the UK and some of the better known smiths from the states.

 

An Arms race it is.

 

I contemplated switching to FTR, but notice that the rifles used do not reflect what I had thought would be true FTR - they may as well be in the same class as the open rigs.

 

This discipline is also an arms race.

 

Russ's rifle is apart from the stock, every bit cutting edge as the open class guns.

 

The man is an exceptionally gifted shot.

 

 

Going back to the original thread as to what constitutes a long range calibre and what one prefers.

 

I like 338LM, yes its expensive to shoot at about £1.50 a bang, not much more in reality than the 7mm's used in competition, when one factors in the short case life of RUAG brass, and the price of the bergers / powder etc.

 

 

I also shoot 6.5x47, 6.5x284, these are excellent long range calibres, with some limitations.

 

Any calibre will get you there, the overriding factor being as previously mentioned the elements.

 

 

If you want an "edge", I think the 338's come into their own in wind.......

 

 

Having said that, I look forwards to "returning" to 308 in early 2010

[brown dog]

Jedi wind reading indeed, its positively spectoral to watch Russ's target markers as they pop back up...

V-bull, V-bull, V-bull, etc etc etc etc .......

 

Much like watching me shoot I imagine?

 

[ or maybe not ]

 

I contemplated switching to FTR, but notice that the rifles used do not reflect what I had thought would be true FTR - they may as well be in the same class as the open rigs.

 

This discipline is also an arms race.

 

That's what I was trying to say

 

As a true 223/308 varmint/heavy sporter/tactical discipline it would hold great appeal to me; it was a disappointment when I realised that it was the same wallet race as the open class [the bipods in particular are ridiculous - they should just use front rests and be done with the pretense!]

 

Is there scope for someone to start a genuine all-comers f/tr class along the lines of:

26" or less barrel

Magazine fed (& all rounds to be loaded via the magazine)

folding telescoping bipod no wider than x" at full spread (& removable without tools other than a coin)

Carryable (fully assembled and ready for firing) on a shoulder sling

Min trigger pull 1.5lbs

Safety catch

 

?

 

 

Just thinking out loud

[Ratwhiskers]

BD,

 

"As a true 223/308 varmint/heavy sporter/tactical discipline it would hold great appeal to me; it was a disappointment when I realised that it was the same wallet race as the open class [the bipods in particular are ridiculous - they should just use front rests and be done with the pretense!]

 

Is there scope for someone to start a genuine all-comers f/tr class along the lines of:

26" or less barrel

Magazine fed (& all rounds to be loaded via the magazine)

folding telescoping bipod no wider than x" at full spread (& removable without tools other than a coin)

Carryable (fully assembled and ready for firing) on a shoulder sling

Min trigger pull 1.5lbs

Safety catch"

 

Tis a shame l'm a bit up country or l'd be up for a lot more of that game