Otis

[DL.]

I bought one of these last week, & feel as though I haven't really thought it through properly before I parted with my cash,I think all I needed was a G10 7.62 pull through & that would have been good enough for my needs. Has anyone else got any expirience of these cleaning kits?

 

http://www.otisgun.com/

[col48]

I bought one of these last week, & feel as though I haven't really thought it through properly before I parted with my cash,I think all I needed was a G10 7.62 pull through & that would have been good enough for my needs. Has anyone else got any expirience of these cleaning kits?

 

http://www.otisgun.com/

 

 

i would not use a pull through on any of my rifles. (to much risk of damaging the crown)

 

get yourself a good fitting bore guide,and a good jewey or my favorite tipton cleaning rod.

 

ATB

Colin

[DL.]

It's OK, I have rods & bore guides, I just wanted the cleaning system to keep in the car in case I experience a sudden loss of accuracy.I cant see me using the kit an awful lot though.

[Redfox]

looks a lot like a waste of money, if you really want an emergency cleaner the boresnake is ok and you pull it through from the breach end so not risking the crown. However the 17 rem is supposed to need cleaning every 8-10 rounds but I have not found it to be that bad and easily go a full nights foxing etc without needing to clean it, the bigger calibres should not need it in an outing at all.

Redfox

[brown dog]

I second the opinion on the boresnake being perfectly adequate; however, I don't agree on the general 'crown worries' relating to pull throughs.

 

Cord-worn crowns were a symptom of poorly trained recruits and lack of care.

 

It is a simple matter to hold the rifle vertically and pull it through without letting the cord touch -let alone abrade- the crown.

 

 

DL, if you don't want the kit, I'd consider taking it off your hands (at an appropriate 'it's crap' price!)

[col48]

I second the opinion on the boresnake being perfectly adequate; however, I don't agree on the general 'crown worries' relating to pull throughs.

 

Cord-worn crowns were a symptom of poorly trained recruits and lack of care.

 

It is a simple matter to hold the rifle vertically and pull it through without letting the cord touch -let alone abrade- the crown.

 

 

DL, if you don't want the kit, I'd consider taking it off your hands (at an appropriate 'it's crap' price!)

 

 

well if this is the type of rifles you use then feel free to keep on using this method.

http://www.smellysmleshooters.net/pullthrough.htm

 

if on the other hand you are one of us lucky ones that dabble in black magic,you will do what all the top magicians do.and use proper equipment.i have not yet read any barrel manufacturer recommend the use of a pull through.

 

Have a look at the advise of an expert,

 

Lilja barrels

 

Normal cleaning

For a normal cleaning (after a string of 10-25 shots) after break-in, the above procedure should be used, but stop short of soaking the barrel with the strong copper remover. A good rule of thumb is to stroke the barrel with a brush, one cycle for every shot fired.

 

 

Periodic cleaning

It is probably a good idea to use a strong copper removing solvent every 200 rounds, or so, to check the barrel for copper fouling. We do not recommend the routine use of abrasive cleaners for normal cleaning. However they can be used every 500-1000 rounds to remove the carbon build-up (caused by powder fouling) in the throat area of the barrel. To use, wrap a cotton patch around a worn out brush or a cleaning jag and liberally apply the abrasive cleaner to the patch. Short stroke the abrasive for 6" or so in the throat area and one or two full length passes through the barrel. Do not clean the barrel like this for more than 1-2 minutes.

 

 

Suggested equipment and solvents

It is important to use an action rod guide when cleaning. The guide aligns the rod with the bore and helps prevent uneven wear in the throat area. Be careful not to raise the handle end of the rod while stroking. This will put a "belly" in the rod that will wear the barrel. We suggest that plastic coated rods, like the Dewey and Parker-Hale, be used.

 

Our preferred cleaning solvent is Butch's Bore Shine made by BBS Industries (406-652-2495). This solvent is excellent at attacking both powder and copper fouling. We recommend it for both break-in and regular cleaning.

 

For occasional use only, abrasives like J-B paste, Flitz, or RemClean can be used.

 

Do not use a stainless steel brush in your barrel under any circumstances.

 

Do not apply a strong copper remover, like Sweets, on a bronze brush. It will ruin the brush and give the false indication that the barrel has copper in it.

 

For shooters wishing to use moly-coated bullets we do not recommend shooting more than 25 rounds or so without using the normal cleaning procedure outlined above.

 

Long barrels require a long cleaning rod. Click Here for more information about a 60" Dewey rod.

 

To also read Dan's article titled Barrel Fouling - Click Here

 

 

 

 

How about Krieger barrels, Do they mention a Pull through???

 

 

 

CLEANING

 

This section on cleaning is not intended to be a detailed instruction, but rather to point out a few "do's and don'ts". Instructions furnished with bore cleaners, equipment, etc. should be followed unless they would conflict with these "do's and don'ts."

 

You should use a good quality straight cleaning rod with a freely rotating handle and a rod guide that fits both your receiver raceway and the rod snugly. How straight and how snug? The object is to make sure the rod cannot touch the bore. With service rifle barrels a good rod and guide set-up is especially important as all the cleaning must be done from the muzzle and even slight damage to the barrel crown is extremely detrimental to accuracy.

 

There are two basic types of bore cleaners -- chemical and abrasive. The chemical cleaners are usually a blend of various ingredients including oils and ammonia that attack the copper. The abrasive cleaners generally contain no chemicals and are an oil, wax, or grease base with an extremely fine abrasive such as chalk, clay, or gypsum. They clean by mechanically removing the fouling. Both are good, and we feel that neither will damage the bore when used properly.

 

So what is the proper way to use them? First, not all chemical cleaners are compatible with each other. Some, when used together at a certain temperature, can cause severe pitting of the barrel -- even stainless steel barrels. It is fine to use two different cleaners as long as you completely remove the first cleaner from the barrel before cleaning with the second. And, of course, never mix them in the same bottle.

 

Follow instructions on the bottle as far as soak time, etc. . . Always clean from the breech whenever possible, pushing the patch or swab up to the muzzle and then back without completely exiting the muzzle. If you exit the muzzle, the rod is going to touch the bore and be dragged back in across the crown followed by the patch or brush. Try to avoid dragging things in and out of the muzzle. It will eventually cause uneven wear of the crown. Accuracy will suffer and this can lead you to believe the barrel is shot out, when in fact, it still may have a lot of serviceable life left. A barrel with a worn or damaged crown can be re-crowned and accuracy will usually return.

 

The chemical cleaners may be the best way to clean service rifle barrels that must be cleaned from the muzzle -- i.e. M1 Garand, M14, etc. . .-- because this method avoids all the scrubbing necessary with the abrasive cleaners and the danger of damaging the crown. But again, as long as the rod doesn't touch the crown, abrasive cleaners should be fine.

 

Abrasive cleaners work very well. They do not damage the bore, they clean all types of fouling (copper powder, lead, plastic), and they have the added advantage of polishing the throat both in "break in" and later on when the throat begins to roughen again from the rounds fired. One national champion we know polishes the throats on his rifles every several hundred rounds or so with diamond paste to extend their accuracy life.

 

Again, as with the chemical cleaners, a good rod and rod guide is necessary. A jag with a patch wrapped around it works well. Apply the cleaner and begin scrubbing in short, rather fast strokes of about two to four inches in length. Concentrate most of the strokes in the throat area decreasing the number as you go toward the muzzle. Make a few full-length passes while avoiding exiting the muzzle completely, but do partially exit for about six strokes. You can avoid accidentally exiting by mounting the rifle in a vise or holder of some sort and blocking the rod at the muzzle with the wall or something to keep it from completely exiting.

 

 

 

This sheet is intended to touch on the critical areas of break-in and cleaning and is not intended as a complete, step-by-step guide or recommendation of any product.

 

The following is a guide to "break-in" based on our experience. This is not a hard and fast rule, only a guide. Some barrel, chamber, bullet, primer, powder, pressure, velocity etc. combinations may require more cycles some less!

 

It is a good idea to just observe what the barrel is telling you with its fouling pattern. But once it is broken in, there is no need to continue breaking it in.

 

Initially you should perform the shoot-one-shot-and-clean cycle for five cycles. If fouling hasn't reduced, fire five more cycles and so on until fouling begins to drop off. At that point shoot three shots before cleaning and observe. If fouling is reduced, fire five shots before cleaning. It is interesting to shoot groups during the three and five shot cycles.

 

StainlessChrome moly5 one-shot cycles5 - 25 - one-shot cycles1 three-shot cycle2 - three-shot cycles1 five-shot cycle1 - five-shot cycle

 

Thank you for choosing a Krieger barrel.

 

I like to do what the experts do,and not the self proclaimed experts that spout dribble at every opportunity,after all when you have damaged your barrel,its you that will have to pay out for the re crown,and not the self proclaimed expert.

so there you are just a few expert articles on the correct way to clean your rifle barrel,and if you need more proof there are many many more,and none of them mention the use of a pull through,infact the only time i have seen an article saying to use a pull through was saying it was a good idea to carry one with you wile out stalking,in the event you fell over and plugged your barrel.now that seems to be good advise on the hole (sound familiar) but how do you get your pull through through the barrel when it has a plug go that which promotes growth and vigour in there,maybe a rod would push it out,or even a tree branch.its your choice,but everyone stopped using pull through for a reason,and that is they can and do damage your rifle.

 

ATB

Colin

[baldie]

We've sold the large otis kit, and the small one for rimmies for years, and never had a problem with either.The cables are nylon coated, and used correctly wont damage the crown.

[col48]

We've sold the large otis kit, and the small one for rimmies for years, and never had a problem with either.The cables are nylon coated, and used correctly wont damage the crown.

 

shops have sold things for years that are no good. Try FAGs for one

Would that be because you can not get a rod down one of your rimmy??

 

 

and pray tell me do you use one on your match rifles Dave???? or any of your centerfires????

 

ATB

Colin

[tulkyuk]

I use a bore snake in my T3 Hunter quite often and havn't seen any detrimental effects what so ever - it shot a few .4" groups in the wind at the diggle 2 weeks ago, so it can't be doing that much harm.

(Its a totally standard factory rifle).

[Middlestead]

Here is how to break in a barrel........

 

Proper barrel break in...........

[menial 1]

I bought one of these last week, & feel as though I haven't really thought it through properly before I parted with my cash,I think all I needed was a G10 7.62 pull through & that would have been good enough for my needs. Has anyone else got any expirience of these cleaning kits?

 

http://www.otisgun.com/

 

I carry one of these in the truck and have it for emergencies. When you're carrying a rifle and are unfortunate to trip whilst your on the hill and fill the muzzle with that which promotes growth and vigour, without one of these it's end of stalk and go home . Boresnake won't clear a blockage, and I don't know anyone who carries rigid cleaning rods and associated kit whilst stalking. With the Otis kit in your roesack, manbag, rucksack, you can save your day there and then.

I use normal cleaning kit at home, but when I travel the Otis kit goes in the bag for peace of mind. I'd say these were designed more for emergency field use than as general cleaning kit. I'm glad I bought mine as I have had to use it in Scotland when I fell in a burn, but then again I am a clumsy ######.

Not much appeal to target shooters I would have thought, they take so much gear to the range that for some, full cleaning kit would appear mandatory.

Pete.

[Guest northernchris]

As a stand by i see know probs with the Otis,better to use that when your in the shite than turn around and head back to base,i dont think it is intended to replace normal cleaning rods etc.

[Guest northernchris]

James love the vid

[baldie]

shops have sold things for years that are no good. Try FAGs for one

Would that be because you can not get a rod down one of your rimmy??

 

 

and pray tell me do you use one on your match rifles Dave???? or any of your centerfires????

 

ATB

Colin

 

I use the otis pull throughs on every rimfire that goes on the bench Colin, plus every .22 centrefire too.

The rimmies get pulled through whether the barrel is on the action or not...i only use a rod in the shop, when i have to.

i use rods and bore guides on all my own rifles, when they are on the bench at home. I use an otis kit in the field, when needed.

We dont sell "things that are no good" in the shop, just quality equipment, that i would use myself.

Pull throughs are only no good, if the person using it, is incapable of watching they pull it out straight....and lets face it, if a guy cant do that, he really shouldn,t have his hands on a gun.

Otis pullthroughs, are used and recommended by volquartsen, and are, i believe issued to most american special forces, and police.

[1967spud]

I use the otis pull throughs on every rimfire that goes on the bench Colin, plus every .22 centrefire too.

The rimmies get pulled through whether the barrel is on the action or not...i only use a rod in the shop, when i have to.

i use rods and bore guides on all my own rifles, when they are on the bench at home. I use an otis kit in the field, when needed.

We dont sell "things that are no good" in the shop, just quality equipment, that i would use myself.

Pull throughs are only no good, if the person using it, is incapable of watching they pull it out straight....and lets face it, if a guy cant do that, he really shouldn,t have his hands on a gun.

Otis pullthroughs, are used and recommended by volquartsen, and are, i believe issued to most american special forces, and police.

hi baldie which shop are you talkingfa boiut please mate

[col48]

I use the otis pull throughs on every rimfire that goes on the bench Colin, plus every .22 centrefire too.

The rimmies get pulled through whether the barrel is on the action or not...i only use a rod in the shop, when i have to.

i use rods and bore guides on all my own rifles, when they are on the bench at home. I use an otis kit in the field, when needed.

We dont sell "things that are no good" in the shop, just quality equipment, that i would use myself.

Pull throughs are only no good, if the person using it, is incapable of watching they pull it out straight....and lets face it, if a guy cant do that, he really shouldn,t have his hands on a gun.

Otis pullthroughs, are used and recommended by volquartsen, and are, i believe issued to most american special forces, and police.

 

 

just been on volquartsons web sit and could not see where they say to use Otis pull throughs.

 

so you don't use them all the time on your center fires? y is that,y don't you use the Otis pull though all the time??

if they are so good and your shop recommend them to everyone i would have thought you would have used them exclusively.and saved your self the time /trouble /and cash on a proper cleaning kit.

 

the reason you don't see them on every bench at the range is they are not what you want to be cleaning your barrel with every day.

plain and simple.

now that is enough on this one for me,as i don't sell them.

 

ATB

Colin

[ds1]

I have a couple of Otis pull-throughs, one for the bolt rifles that lives in my rucksack for cleaning the crap out of the barrel when a bore guide and rod is not available. As others have pointed out better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

 

The other pull- through gets more use on a vz58, which is not user friendly as far as cleaning rods go, but then it is not a precision rifle either.

 

David.

[baldie]

Ok Colin, this is getting really boring now.

We dont recommend Otis pull throughs all the time, we recommend a rod and guide, for use at home or whenever people have time, and space to use them. pull throughs are for field/combat use, or when a rifle has "gone off" whilst out...but of course you know all this , being an expert.

Otis are the best available in the pull through field, and will not damage a gun, in any shape or form IF USED CORRECTLY.

Volquartsen , buy, and repackage Otis pull throughs for sale by themselves, and on their barrels....if thats not a ringing endorsement of it, i dont know what is, oh and by the way, volquartsen use your much loved walther liners in their barrels.I happen to know all this, because we have sole rights to the 12.5 carbon fibre barrel....its produced exclusivley for us.

You say you dont sell them...have you ever owned or used one ?

[col48]

Ok Colin, this is getting really boring now.

We dont recommend Otis pull throughs all the time, we recommend a rod and guide, for use at home or whenever people have time, and space to use them. pull throughs are for field/combat use, or when a rifle has "gone off" whilst out...but of course you know all this , being an expert.

Otis are the best available in the pull through field, and will not damage a gun, in any shape or form IF USED CORRECTLY.

Volquartsen , buy, and repackage Otis pull throughs for sale by themselves, and on their barrels....if thats not a ringing endorsement of it, i dont know what is, oh and by the way, volquartsen use your much loved walther liners in their barrels.I happen to know all this, because we have sole rights to the 12.5 carbon fibre barrel....its produced exclusivley for us.

You say you dont sell them...have you ever owned or used one ?

 

 

I did say i was not going to post on this again.but just for you Dave

you are not the only one that uses equipment,or tries different things,so yes i have one,and no i do not use it,it was brought for a 17 HMR when there was no cleaning stuff available for them.and no i did not damage the crown,

All so I'm not an expert in anything,(UN like some self proclaimed experts,) but i will say this,if it is not good enough to use every day,and all the time,there must be a reason,could it just possibly be that they are not as good as a rod and bore guide.

 

 

ATB

Colin

[DL.]

Well,all this aside,I cleaned my air rifles barrel (it's a springer) & I'm pleased to say after thousands of shots the walther barrel is in good order,& If I hadn't had the kit I wouldn't have had the opportunity to gut it out in this way (I didn't have a .17 pull through).

I also think that all my rifles will have more of a chance to be cleaned more frequently now that I have this kit in the motor,So I've decided that I'm happy with having the cleaning kit - it's just the strange patches that are concerning me now!

[Ronin]

 

Here we go again eh?

 

 

Personally, I dont like pull throughs - although used correctly I see no reason why one should not use one as a BACK UP and have it in the car or in a pack whilst stalking / foxing, and if you do plug the barrel, you CAN remove the obstruction with the OTIS system (ive done it)

 

I did a test for Target Sports magazine a few years ago of cleaning rods including pull throughs, small section (screw together) rods and one piece ones too.

 

There are a number of flexible kits available (Bore Snake and OTIS are two makers)

 

There are a number of 3 / 4 piece rod systems available - (Kleen Tech, M-Pro 7, Bisley, Brokock etc) make some excellent cleaning kits that are in a small compact case that fits in a bum bag / stuff sack or roe sack.

 

One piece rods like Tiptron, Pro Shot etc, they are not "field friendly" and best left in the car or at home where you can PROPERLY clean your barrel nd chamber.

 

 

The OTIS system is a great in the field kit that is easily carried and used if a quick field is required to enable you to carry on shooting.

 

The smaller screw together rod systems are just the same but come in bigger packs - one of the better ones is the M-Pro 7 one (IMHO)

 

Like I said at the start of the post, personally, I feel they are a useful addition to your carry kit in case of a situation where you need to clean your barrel whilst out in the field. They would not replace my one piece rods at home.

 

Used correctly, they work pretty well - BUT, you need to be careful at the throad and crown for obvious reasons (like with ANY cleaning rod)

 

 

Use what YOU want to use.........

[Wsm]

I`ve been asked by one of the members involved to tidy this thread up because it seemed to be going off topic somewhat

 

It seems that pull throughs can be added to the "emotive subject" list

[Finman]

I don't like pull throughs, and the rod and bore guide will always be my prefered method of cleaning the rifle. However, in a recent stalking trip, it was raining heavily throughout and I was carrying the rifle muzzle down when I slipped and plunged it in the mud. At that point, we were looking for a shot beast that may needed a follow up shot, and I was the only one with a rifle at the stalk. Hence, I was most pleased that i had the OTIS system in my kit bag and was able to perform a rudimentary clean and removal of the mud plug from my bore.

 

so, would I use an OTIS to clean my rifle: NO!

will I use an OTIS in the field again: ABSOLUTELY!

 

all have their uses and if someone has a preference for a system, good luck to them. At the end of the day, it is their crown... The rod and brush have also been accused for many a destroyed crowns as well. One has only to see what is said on the websites (6mmBR.com has an excellent video by Walt Berger, I think!, who swears that he would never use a brush as it destroys the crown), to see the variability of opinion. But I will not come to blows on the subject!

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

[Redfox]

You girls are very quick with the handbags etc

I think Finman puts it very well and it is about my take on it.

Redfox