Otisthedog Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Hi folks, I'd appreciate some opinions on these load development groups please... Load is 155gr Amax, varget, lapua brass (new, fl sized) and Federal gold medal primers. Rifle is an r93, 11 twist barrel .308 that shoots v well with 165-170gr factory, but I fancied loading the 155s for a bit of target practice. I feel I am at the point of going round in circles so before I blaze much more powder and bullets... Shot at 110yd, off bipod and rear bag in field. I cleaned the barrel between targets (run out of wipeout so used hoppes no 9 which doesn't seem to remove anywhere near as much fouling... If that makes any difference!) I'm not the best shot but can usually tell if I've pulled a shot! I seem to be getting a few where 3 are touching and one steps out. Seems to happen on the second shot of the group. Might well be me of course! 1. 44gr - 46.5gr varget @ 2.800" coal. Slight flattening of primers at 46.5 2. 46gr varget @ 2.790" - 2.805". Also a couple clicks down on scope. Breezy 5-12mph 3. 46.0, 46.2, 46.4gr varget. Breezy 5-10mph ish. Couple of clicks back up on scope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Nodes seem to be 45.5 to 46.5....tightish groups all roughly in the same place, so a good place to start. Stringing left to right could just be the breeze. Where you have vertical stringing it may just be a sign of the barrel heating up between shots? 46g doesn't look too shabby a load tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5Grendel Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Nodes seem to be 45.5 to 46.5....tightish groups all roughly in the same place, so a good place to start. Stringing left to right could just be the breeze. Where you have vertical stringing it may just be a sign of the barrel heating up between shots? 46g doesn't look too shabby a load tbh.46g at 2.800 looks a reasonable group especially if you have called one as pulled and it's breezy. If it was me I'd load a batch at that and shoot it for a while to get a proper feel for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grum87 Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Are you allowing any fouling shots before shooting groups....after cleaning between groups? I personally wouldn't be cleaning between groups doing load development...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otisthedog Posted April 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Are you allowing any fouling shots before shooting groups....after cleaning between groups? I personally wouldn't be cleaning between groups doing load development...... I cleaned the rifle in between each target, not each group. I then fired one fouling round before the next series of groups. I allowed approx 1 minute between each shot, and 3 minutes between each group. Barrel and mod got warm, but not hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarovski1 Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Are you allowing any fouling shots before shooting groups....after cleaning between groups? I personally wouldn't be cleaning between groups doing load development...... me neither grum, I would make the oal 10 to 20 longer and try again, your 46.5gr group on first photo was tidy, best to do load development in still conditions to rule out the wind, sporter barrel hots up fast so let cool inbetween shots, a varmint barrel allows more before hotting up.the moderator then holds the heat, in my 308 the 155gr amaxs were superb on 41.5grs of rs40 at 2812 oal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otisthedog Posted April 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 46g at 2.800 looks a reasonable group especially if you have called one as pulled and it's breezy. If it was me I'd load a batch at that and shoot it for a while to get a proper feel for it. Yes, I think that's my plan for the minute. Going to try a few of that load at longer range. I didn't think I pulled a shot though, and I have noticed that one of four shots is consistently 1/4-1/2 in off. Most likely a coincidence and my ropey shooting skills, but several of the groups show this trait? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 I dont feel I could do consistent load development shooting at such small dots with what could quite possibly be a tick reticule hunting scope? It might sound daft or obvious but we need to be sure that we are aiming at the same place every shot and with your first group the aiming mark is barely bigger than your bullet holes, I would find that very difficult. I like to shoot at 3" discs even at 100yds and then I can both quarter and centre the target, that way I can rule out any errors in that department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otisthedog Posted April 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Hi Al, My scope is a nightforce nxs 3.5-15x56, with np2dd reticle, which is a small floating dot. It's not too bad to hold on a small target, though you will notice I made the targets a bit bigger for the second two tests! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Otis, fine-the classic Bench Rest target dot is worth a try: just place your aimpoint target dot just touching the top of the scope dot,to form a figure 8 -about as precise as you'll get/need and no obscuring the aim point-your eye will be pretty good at lining this up. It might just trim a few decimals off..... gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otisthedog Posted April 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Sounds good gbal, will try it - thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 I find these targets good for load development: PDF File (download and print off): http://accurateshooter.net/targets/targetaccshooter.pdf Picture: And 100m bench rest: http://accurateshooter.net/targets/TargetC.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Hi Al, My scope is a nightforce nxs 3.5-15x56, with np2dd reticle, which is a small floating dot. It's not too bad to hold on a small target, though you will notice I made the targets a bit bigger for the second two tests! Sounds good, nice fine reticule. As has been said its surprising just how important having a well thought out target to shoot at can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VarmLR Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 double post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otisthedog Posted April 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Thanks for all the suggestions folks, will keep you posted how I get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie-hunter Posted May 8, 2016 Report Share Posted May 8, 2016 I like to shoot at diamond shape targets, Crosshairs touching all points, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie-hunter Posted May 8, 2016 Report Share Posted May 8, 2016 I like to shoot at diamond shape targets, Crosshairs touching all points, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJR Posted May 8, 2016 Report Share Posted May 8, 2016 Otis, my suggestions. Don't clean the barrel when load developing, you are shooting relatively few rounds so leave it fouled. The targets Varm posted are good but adjust your elevation approx 1moa so your point of impact is higher than your point of aim then you do not shoot your aim mark out - you are load developing not zeroing. Zeroing can be done easily afterwards. Do not adjust the scope at all once shooting has started - you are looking for consistency and scope adjustment only makes that harder to identify. Shoot a round robin system, one round at each charge weight then move onto the next charge weight. This averages out shooting consistency. 46gn looks like a node to me, try different seating depths at that charge weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted May 8, 2016 Report Share Posted May 8, 2016 charlie,that works well,maybe 'depending on the reticule thickness,and how high the mag is... Some central cross hairs are just not long enough,and of course some target scopes have just a dot. Most combinations can be optimised with appropriate target...and it does help the ultimate fine tuning-IF the rifle really is capable of consistent fine precision/accuracy-about .25 moa. Of course,if the rifle isn't,then it hardly matters .6 moa rather than .7 moa isn't going to make anyone's day! ....and for many applications,it hardly matters... :-) gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 squirrel Posted May 8, 2016 Report Share Posted May 8, 2016 Hi Otis. I think the target you use makes a great difference. I use this one it gives the best of both options. Diamond to line up your reticule, the NP2DD has lines either side and below the dot. I then put a dab of tippex in the centre of the diamond, size depending on distance, to hold the reticule dot on. Then so that you dont shoot out your aiming point i put 4,6 or 8 click on the scope again depending on distance. It took me quite a while and quite a bit of powder and bullets to find this out. Also i print mine off at work, i like those little hidden bonuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firedoc Posted May 8, 2016 Report Share Posted May 8, 2016 I find it easier when shooting groups to adjust 1 MOA down resulting in your point of impact being lower thus whilst maintaining a clear aim point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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