Long range Rim fire shooting!

[247sniper]

Hiya guys,

Its a beautiful night so thought I would take full advantage of it. I could have gone out and shot some looooooong range rabbits or targets but thought I would do something a little different to mix it up a bit and to demonstration the effectiveness of the little .22 Rimmy at extended ranges.

Just a quick to demonstration how a .22 Lr can be used at extended ranges for humane vermin control and target shooting.
Knowing your kit, practice in the field and the understanding of ballistics and wind calling these extended shots can be repeatably made time and time again.

 

I have recently got a bit fed up off people saying that if the elevation or the wind drift is great then the target kill zone on the target then the shot is not on. Like shooting rabbits with a .223 or .22 BR at 400 yards in 10 MPH + winds is not on because there is around 10 inch of wind drift.....what utter rubbish, these people obviously do not know what there on about or how to shoot! lol

 

This video show that reading the wind, you can dial the shot and hold off or hold under for the increased winds or the lulls, if you know your kit and your ability, it can be done to great effect even with the like of this little .22 behound its normal ranges.

Enjoy folks.

 

https://youtu.be/r6F7ocT7rRA

[ozone]

Hiya guys,

Enjoy folks.

 

https://youtu.be/r6F7ocT7rRA

 

I have watched a few of your videos and it is good to see somebody

who knows what they are doing, do it well.

 

Enjoyable video and good to see it done properly

 

By your standards I just play at it, but I have used my .22

out to 500mtrs just to see what happened.

 

I was just throwing lead away at 500 mtrs but there is a competition,

on the range for .22 at 500 mtrs (yards). Jokingly they claim to

put inch blocks of wood under the sights to give the elevation .................

 

I was on the range and started at 200mtrs and was surprised at how

accurate it was. I was using a semi auto Colt M4 so I had no real

expectations of its long range accuracy, but wanted to try.

 

At 200 mtrs I was consistently inside a dinner plate sized ring that I had

printed on a sheet of paper and had placed over the target.

 

At 300 mtrs I hit it more than I missed but at 400 mtrs I was missing

more than I hit and the bullets were going in sideways, backwards and

any other combination you would expect from a tumbling bullet.

 

It was good fun though, I had only ever shot it at 100 mtrs, so to go out

to 400 mtrs was interesting.

 

Regards

 

ozone

 

.

[jcampbellsmith]

Very good. Well done. Thanks JCS

[247sniper]

Cheers thank Ozone, it's nice to receive some postie comments. I like to try and explain my shooting and shots and shooting methods for people's interest....not just hey look I've just shot a rabbit. Glad you find them of some help and it interest for you.

 

J have had a play with my .22 Lr at long range, it does tend to get pointless as greater distances lol.....good for a giggle though :-)

[247sniper]

Very good. Well done. Thanks JCS

Cheers thanks JCS :-)

[Big Al]

Is a 4" round gong really a representative target for a rabbit Steve?

[247sniper]

Is a 4" round gong really a representative target for a rabbit Steve?

I was waiting for a smart arse comment From someone!

 

But no, to answer your question a 4 " gong is not a representation of a rabbit, but its the smallest gong I have, the group size though on the gong at around 1.5 MOA most defiantlty is well within a rabbit kill zone though!

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[Finman]

I've never considered the .22LR a put-on-a-bipod-and-snipe gun, more of a walk about and stalk a rabbit sort of thing. In practical terms, quick off hand shots at variable ranges is what most of us would use the .22LR for, with a maximum shot of around 50-70yds (off-hand, or sticks).

 

I think I last touched the turrets on my .22LR rifle scope some 5 yrs ago, and haven't unscrewed the cap since... For the .22LR shooting applications, knowing my holdovers and judging distance quickly has served me better than putting out a wind meter, getting out the range finder, dialling a range and taking the shot.

 

Interesting to watch, nevertheless....

 

Best wishes

 

Finman

[247sniper]

I've never considered the .22LR a put-on-a-bipod-and-snipe gun, more of a walk about and stalk a rabbit sort of thing. In practical terms, quick off hand shots at variable ranges is what most of us would use the .22LR for, with a maximum shot of around 50-70yds (off-hand, or sticks).

 

I think I last touched the turrets on my .22LR rifle scope some 5 yrs ago, and haven't unscrewed the cap since... For the .22LR shooting applications, knowing my holdovers and judging distance quickly has served me better than putting out a wind meter, getting out the range finder, dialling a range and taking the shot.

 

Interesting to watch, nevertheless....

 

Best wishes

 

Finman

 

Yes Finman, you are right here also. I don't treat the my .22 Lr as a long range tool or sniping gun, it does have a bi-pod on and I do stalk rabbits with standing, kneeling and of sticks shots also. But there has been endles times I have been out shooting with people and they have called the shot off because it was 103 yards away and they were unable to stalk it as there was no cover between them and the quarry. I thought WTF, I ranged it, dialed in the elevation req (drop chart on my stock) account for wind and head shot the rabbit, all in approx 10 seconds, job done! I wouldn't go to the exstream of setting my kestrel weather vane and wind meter up on pod etc for one rabbit, that was just to show some of the kit used, I do this when im shooting long range rabbits from a sniping single prone position etc. Out to around the 120-140 yard mark you can be pretty much be spot on with just knowledgeable wind calls through visualization of vegetation etc if they are around or under 10 mph, this comes down to experience and practice.

Being able to take these more precise shots at extended ranges prevents me having to own a in-between gun like a HM2 or a HMR for sub 150 yard bunnys.

 

Like you say Finman matey, It was more of an example of what can be achieved with the .22 rimmy and for peoples interest and enjoyment.

 

Steve.

[Andy17hornet]

Good vid, I enjoyed watching it thanks.

 

12 years ago, when all I had was a .22rf, I used to carry two mags in the truck. One carried subs and one HWS high velocities.

With a Tasco Silver Antler on 6x mag, the subs gave me 50 yards on the crosshairs and 100 where the ret got thicker at the bottom.

The HV's gave me 75 on the crosshairs and 125 on the bottom post.

 

Twinned with a simple Yardage Pro rangefinder, it was a formidable system for 0-140y. The complete lack of recoil also makes it incredibly easy to utilise the full potential of the outfit and they're very unfussy about rests too.

 

Learning how to eek the full potential out of any system is an art that gets very little attention these days it seems.

 

Andy

[247sniper]

Good vid, I enjoyed watching it thanks.

 

12 years ago, when all I had was a .22rf, I used to carry two mags in the truck. One carried subs and one HWS high velocities.

With a Tasco Silver Antler on 6x mag, the subs gave me 50 yards on the crosshairs and 100 where the ret got thicker at the bottom.

The HV's gave me 75 on the crosshairs and 125 on the bottom post.

 

Twinned with a simple Yardage Pro rangefinder, it was a formidable system for 0-140y. The complete lack of recoil also makes it incredibly easy to utilise the full potential of the outfit and they're very unfussy about rests too.

 

Learning how to eek the full potential out of any system is an art that gets very little attention these days it seems.

 

Andy

 

 

Hiya Andy, thanks for your comment mate im glad that you enjoyed it and found it off interest.

 

Yeh you dead right, some people just buy another rifle to achieve an extra 50 - 80 yards or so manly because they are able to shoot what they have at full potential or simply they don't know what they are doing, don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with owning a .22 Lr and a HMR etc, but for the reason a mate of mine got rid of his .22 to purchase a HMR "because it has more legs and more range" His words!......he still cant hit rabbits at 150 yards with any reliability, especially in the wind as he is not a competent shot that has spent a lot of time in the field and practiced, I can out-shoot him with my little sub sonic .22. Its true what they say, " its the mutt behind the butt" that matters most

 

Being able to release the full potential out of my little rim-fire rifle just prevents "Me" needing to acquire yet another small rim fire when I don't want nor need one.

 

Steve

[JDBenelliM1]

Steve, I haven't bothered batching .22lr before but could you shed some light on tolerances you use for each batch in weight and rim size? Assume you measure rim thickness?

[Shuggy]

Nice video.

 

When I was a teenager I used to regulary shoot rabbits at ~100 yards from an upstairs window with my father's ancient BSA Martini Model 12, with ordinary peep sights. No-one ever told me that it wouldn't work and funny old thing it worked just fine!

[triggersqueezer]

who stood behind you playing the triangle? you here the pop (shot fired) then whack (bullet strike) then ting lol.nice shooting on a serious note ,i gave up on 22lr because i found them inaccurate (ammo) nice to see what one can do when someone takes the time to get to know the rifle and sort ammo.

[247sniper]

Steve, I haven't bothered batching .22lr before but could you shed some light on tolerances you use for each batch in weight and rim size? Assume you measure rim thickness?

I haven't weight batched them for a long time by weight, TBH I didn't find it that much of an advantage. RIM thickness does however make a big difference I have found, from memory the average is measured at 0.028" +or - 0.0005". The average seems to be around 28 and these are the accurate ones. I have found some that have been as low as 0.023" and some as high as 0.033" some of these are real flyers!.

 

It's a bugger if you find a accurate batch say at 0.028" and the average are all above or below that and there are loads off them lol I just use them with the kids plinking.

 

Steve

[247sniper]

who stood behind you playing the triangle? you here the pop (shot fired) then whack (bullet strike) then ting lol.nice shooting on a serious note ,i gave up on 22lr because i found them inaccurate (ammo) nice to see what one can do when someone takes the time to get to know the rifle and sort ammo.

 

Ha lol, Yeh there is a difference from the centre fires ! Lol big gat tbh lol.

 

Thanks for the positive comment fella,

 

Steve

[Big Al]

I was waiting for a smart arse comment From someone!

 

But no, to answer your question a 4 " gong is not a representation of a rabbit, but its the smallest gong I have, the group size though on the gong at around 1.5 MOA most defiantlty is well within a rabbit kill zone though!

 

Cheers

 

Steve

 

Dont be so touchy Steve, when you put yourself up like this you cannot expect every comment or question to be a pat on the back. I asked you a straight forward question and a straight forward answer was all that was needed. Because you have shown a 4" going bouncing around on a fence, its not clear what kind of group you have actually shot or what you feel you need to shoot yet your straight onto the defensive with your 'smart arse' comment.

 

At no point in your 'infomercial' do you say anything about what you consider a humane group size and how likely you are to achieve this at these ranges in variable conditions, if so then my question would not have been asked but instead you give us "there you go, its easy" which tells us nothing really.

[6.5shooter]

I have recently got a bit fed up off people saying that if the elevation or the wind drift is great then the target kill zone on the target then the shot is not on. Like shooting rabbits with a .223 or .22 BR at 400 yards in 10 MPH + winds is not on because there is around 10 inch of wind drift.....what utter rubbish, these people obviously do not know what there on about or how to shoot! lol

 

 

That is a pretty bold statement to make Steve.

I dont think that anyone is trying to be a smartarse Steve, Its all quite positive critique but if anything I think you may come across to others as the smartarse based on youre bold statements.

Of the many thousands of rabbits I have shot with a 22lr they certainly dont have a 4 inch humane kill zone. Head shots are necessary with the little 22lr to give confidence of instant kills with a low velocity round like this.

If you had of been shooting at a 2moa target at 130 yards then yes it would be starting to get interesting or youre 4 inch target at 230 yards but its not really representing the kill zone of a rabbit.

Fair play for taking the time to video youre outings.

[gbal]

Steve,just to get the basics clear-looking at the grass under the gong,it doesn't seem to be experiencing a 6 mph R-L wind,but the bog cotton(sheep wool) is all a steady flutter so some wind.

And the end shot of wind vane has it pretty much down range between 5 and 7 o'clock.

If so ,wind drift will indeed be much reduced,and it might be a bit misleading to extrapolate to 'problems of 130 y shooting in 10 mph cross winds are much exaggerated',on this alone.

 

But you were there.

 

On the other hand,I've never fully agreed with this 'head shot is humane ' argument-as the critical kill zone is actually quite small and a close wind miss is a nose, jaw shot etc-hardly humane? I suspect few rabbits survive for long with a heart/lung shot,but some are capable of a flip into a burrow and are lost.Overall,there may be better tools for longer distances,and particularly so for less than very skilled shooters (ie most?)

 

When we are talking rather serious distances like 400 yards, with (any) 224cf ,then the main problem is variable wind-essentially drift hold is an estimate,and some error has to be accepted on some shots,which added to other shot dispersal factors-a 1/2 moa is 2 inches alone-even with perfect technique etc,it's beginning to get iffy for the average shooter-though you do say that the skilled shooter can cope.

Yes,but most 'wannabe snipers' only qualify on the first word,too often. Better they practise a whole lot more on (2 inch) gongs?

 

gbal

[247sniper]

Steve,just to get the basics clear-looking at the grass under the gong,it doesn't seem to be experiencing a 6 mph R-L wind,but the bog cotton(sheep wool) is all a steady flutter so some wind.

And the end shot of wind vane has it pretty much down range between 5 and 7 o'clock.

If so ,wind drift will indeed be much reduced,and it might be a bit misleading to extrapolate to 'problems of 130 y shooting in 10 mph cross winds are much exaggerated',on this alone.

 

But you were there.

 

On the other hand,I've never fully agreed with this 'head shot is humane ' argument-as the critical kill zone is actually quite small and a close wind miss is a nose, jaw shot etc-hardly humane? I suspect few rabbits survive for long with a heart/lung shot,but some are capable of a flip into a burrow and are lost.Overall,there may be better tools for longer distances,and particularly so for less than very skilled shooters (ie most?)

 

When we are talking rather serious distances like 400 yards, with (any) 224cf ,then the main problem is variable wind-essentially drift hold is an estimate,and some error has to be accepted on some shots,which added to other shot dispersal factors-a 1/2 moa is 2 inches alone-even with perfect technique etc,it's beginning to get iffy for the average shooter-though you do say that the skilled shooter can cope.

Yes,but most 'wannabe snipers' only qualify on the first word,too often. Better they practise a whole lot more on (2 inch) gongs?

 

gbal

 

 

Ok, I see.......you dont think it was windy enough or i was telling lies or something........I was going to upload this video did the day before but I was afraid I would be "criticized" at the poor quality of the video due to the excessive 20 mph, wind, or wind noise, you couldn't even here my voice, so I was going to delete the footage ..... I did the same thing at the same range in a 20 mph not ideal wind, half value wind from 1 - half 2 direction, and hit every one still, this just points out that hitting a 4" target at that range it very far from ideal conditions, makes it much much more easier in ideal conditions, like i have said many times, its about putting the practice in!

 

https://youtu.be/dh8AK35ywPo

 

I can take criticism and respond to it sensibility no problem, but when people suggest I'm lying....... well I wont bother my arse anymore guys!

 

 

 

Steve

[247sniper]

Steve,just to get the basics clear-looking at the grass under the gong,it doesn't seem to be experiencing a 6 mph R-L wind,but the bog cotton(sheep wool) is all a steady flutter so some wind.

And the end shot of wind vane has it pretty much down range between 5 and 7 o'clock.

If so ,wind drift will indeed be much reduced,and it might be a bit misleading to extrapolate to 'problems of 130 y shooting in 10 mph cross winds are much exaggerated',on this alone.

 

But you were there.

 

On the other hand,I've never fully agreed with this 'head shot is humane ' argument-as the critical kill zone is actually quite small and a close wind miss is a nose, jaw shot etc-hardly humane? I suspect few rabbits survive for long with a heart/lung shot,but some are capable of a flip into a burrow and are lost.Overall,there may be better tools for longer distances,and particularly so for less than very skilled shooters (ie most?)

 

When we are talking rather serious distances like 400 yards, with (any) 224cf ,then the main problem is variable wind-essentially drift hold is an estimate,and some error has to be accepted on some shots,which added to other shot dispersal factors-a 1/2 moa is 2 inches alone-even with perfect technique etc,it's beginning to get iffy for the average shooter-though you do say that the skilled shooter can cope.

Yes,but most 'wannabe snipers' only qualify on the first word,too often. Better they practise a whole lot more on (2 inch) gongs?

 

gbal

 

 

Ok, I see.......you dont think it was windy enough or i was telling lies or something........I was going to upload this video i did the day before but I was afraid I would be "criticized" at the poor quality of the video due to the excessive 20 mph, wind, or wind noise, you couldn't even here my voice, so I was going to delete the footage ..... I did the same thing at the same range in a 20 mph not ideal wind, half value wind from 1 - half 2 direction, and hit every one still, this just points out that hitting a 4" target at that range it very far from ideal conditions, makes it much much more easier in ideal conditions, like i have said many times, its about putting the practice in!

 

https://youtu.be/dh8AK35ywPo

 

I can take criticism and respond to it sensibility no problem, but when people suggest I'm lying....... well I wont bother my arse anymore guys!

 

 

 

Steve

[247sniper]

 

Dont be so touchy Steve,

 

 

Al, When "You" asked the question "Is a 4" round gong really a representative target for a rabbit Steve?

You already knew the answer to that question and you knew I did, you question above is really more, your telling me its not and questioning what I was saying in the sense "you can hit the gong but not a rabbit at that range"

 

Anyway lets leave it there guys, I dont want to come across as being a smart arse,

 

we are all part of the same family.

 

Steve.

[gbal]

Steve,you seem to have msunderstood-I was asking about the 'basics'-as I said-there is no suggestion whatsoever that your are being economical with the truth-just that it would clarify to give wind direction etc- the excellent vane on your set up seemed to suggest 5-7 on the clock,on the vid snippet-as I said "you were there"- the video does not seem like a 7mph 90 degree cross wind-more a following one,so a fair bit easier to handle-I was just asking you to clarify-in case anyone casually took the idea that a strongish cross wind is an easy issue- it starts to push most 22 subs from average rifles a bit close to tolerance,maybe.

I see you might detect/imagine some criticism in some posts-I was really trying to deflect that,not add to it,buy clarifying the specific conditions,which might seem a tad more benign than the general conclusion suggest,at least for the more casual shooter (you were there,and know what was happening). The more full on video might have helped-but I see your points too.

My comments on head shots were not directed at your video-more that it is perhaps a more risky (less humane) shot in marginal/fluctuating conditions. The 4/2 inch gong had already been done.

Bear in mind,Steve,that a fair number of ammo tests show rather unimpressive subsonic performance at 100yards for many of the popular brands-and some are posted on here,often implying they are 'adequate'-not by you,but nonetheless they might be adopted (nor are the rifles that impressive-it all adds up).

You are very conscientious and clear about the skill level needed for your shots-and the evidence is clear that you have it.Others may not.That of course does not negate your point-this is possible,with the right equipment and skill. Would that more had these.

Keep the vids coming,and I'm sorry if seeking clarification on conditions seemed in any way to imply doubt-lets have the full on wind version!

Maybe with a 'don't try this at home,yet' underline,"until you can hit small side on tin cans regularly",for those newish to 22rf joys and sorrows. (same applies to any cartridge of course).

Nothing in the vid reduces your field cred-hell,you hit it 10/10 (which is a good %). :-)

g

[Big Al]

 

 

Al, When "You" asked the question "Is a 4" round gong really a representative target for a rabbit Steve?

You already knew the answer to that question and you knew I did, you question above is really more, your telling me its not and questioning what I was saying in the sense "you can hit the gong but not a rabbit at that range"

 

Anyway lets leave it there guys, I dont want to come across as being a smart arse,

 

we are all part of the same family.

 

Steve.

 

 

The problem here, or at least as I see it Steve is you don't have the right attitude for posting vids, its not clear what you set out to achieve and its clear you dont take any questioning or potential criticism well. If you can't manage either then save yourself the grief and dont post it.

 

Everything is rosey so long as you get the 'great shooting' type comments. The minute anyone challenges you your dummy is out of the pram. Lets be honest here, its a nothing of a video that pretty much tells people nothing, clang, clang, clang on an unrealistic sized target which to many less clever than you/me would think you consider a 4" target representative of a rabbit.

 

I respect anyone who takes the time to shoot well and that includes you but if your going to put yourself out there on Youtube then do yourself and the rest of your shooting family a favour and make a decent job of it. It would not have been difficult to have put a 2" shoot n see target on that going and then walked us down to see the real results. In the process you could have explained that clanging a 4" gong is for fun and if you had a humane sized group to show us at the end then explain exactly what level of accuracy is required before engaging with live rabbit sized targets. Personally when my grouping gets beyond 1" then Im not looking to be shooting at rabbits because as George suggests the shot can then be jaw/face/back of head and I dont want that, a chest shot gives you a bit more to play with as Im sure you know but both are separate kill areas so can't be joined together to make a bigger kill zone.

 

With the utmost respect all I see is a clip of someone plinking at an oversize target that doesn't represent the more realistic use for such a caliber as the .22lr with subs. I shoot hundreds of rabbits every a year, almost all are with the .22lr and anything from free hand 15yds to rested on the truck roof at 100yds, my need for a quick follow up shot is very rare indeed, Im happy to go out past 100yds myself on a nice still summers evening but I honestly dont think suggesting dialling in 17mph winds with a .22lr at 120yds on a rabbit does you or our sport any good, it just looks irresponsible to me.

 

Its all well and good retorting with 'I practise lots and I can do it' but dont forget a lot of us practice lots too and dont really think its realistic or more importantly consistent/repeatable. I shoot rabbits dead, pretty much all of the time with the one shot, I dont plink at them which I feel your video shows even if its not what you actually do.

 

Please forgive me if this seems blunt, Im not trying to pick a fight with you here and I respect your desire to be good at your chosen hobby, Im just trying to give you a feeling for other ways that video can appear others within your shooting family

[247sniper]

 

 

The problem here, or at least as I see it Steve is you don't have the right attitude for posting vids, its not clear what you set out to achieve and its clear you dont take any questioning or potential criticism well. If you can't manage either then save yourself the grief and dont post it.

 

Everything is rosey so long as you get the 'great shooting' type comments. The minute anyone challenges you your dummy is out of the pram. Lets be honest here, its a nothing of a video that pretty much tells people nothing, clang, clang, clang on an unrealistic sized target which to many less clever than you/me would think you consider a 4" target representative of a rabbit.

 

I respect anyone who takes the time to shoot well and that includes you but if your going to put yourself out there on Youtube then do yourself and the rest of your shooting family a favour and make a decent job of it. It would not have been difficult to have put a 2" shoot n see target on that going and then walked us down to see the real results. In the process you could have explained that clanging a 4" gong is for fun and if you had a humane sized group to show us at the end then explain exactly what level of accuracy is required before engaging with live rabbit sized targets. Personally when my grouping gets beyond 1" then Im not looking to be shooting at rabbits because as gal suggests the shot can then be jaw/face/back of head and I dont want that, a chest shot gives you a bit more to play with as Im sure you know but both are separate kill areas so can't be joined together to make a bigger kill zone.

 

With the utmost respect all I see is a clip of someone plinking at an oversize target that doesn't represent the more realistic use for such a caliber as the .22lr with subs. I shoot hundreds of rabbits every a year, almost all are with the .22lr and anything from free hand 15yds to rested on the truck roof at 100yds, need for a quick follow up shot is very rare indeed, Im happy to go out past 100yds myself on a nice still summers evening but I honestly dont think suggesting dialling in 17mph winds with a .22lr at 120yds on a rabbit doesn't do you or our sport any good, it just looks irresponsible to me.

 

Its all well and good retorting with 'I practise lots and I can do it' but dont forget a lot of us practice lots too and dont really think its realistic or more importantly consistent/repeatable. I shoot rabbits dead, most of the time with the one shot, I dont plink at them which I feel your video shows even if its not what you actually do.

 

Please forgive me if this seems blunt, Im not trying to pick a fight with you here and I respect your desire to be good at your chosen hobby, Im just trying to give you a feeling for other ways that video can be seen even by others within your shooting family

 

 

Al, thanks for your honesty, comments and feed back, negative and positive, at least we know where we stand.

 

Like I said, I wont bore you to death my pointless videos again.

 

Steve