Are we ready for more liberal gun laws

[Finman]

Hi all,

 

Well it seems someone has it in for my dogs...my wife took the three terriers and a terrier pup for a walk to the field behind the house. My border bitch and the pups stayed close, the two dogs went off on a scent on the hedge, something they always do and we know where they go. This time they went a bit further, probably another couple of hundred yards, to a bit of scrub and bramble.

 

It took a while for them to come back. My border terrier dog came out first, holding his back left foot of the ground, a bit of blood could be seen on his fur behind his knee...my wife had to carry him for 800yds or so back to the house, all the time thinking he got caught on a bit of barbed wire or such. I was at the range finishing a shooting comp, and when I came back had a look at the little fella, only to discover a loose body on the surface of the femur and a very well defined hole on the back of the thigh. Palpating the loose body, I could make out the outline of an iargun pellet...he had been shot...

 

I took him to the vets today, x-Ray confirmed the presence of a pellet and it was then surgically removed. £150 later he is now home and expected to make a quick recovery.

 

Where we live is not rough, it is a quiet little village, people know one another and one would not have expected this. Obviously some youth (??) with an airgun out for mischief...my dogs where nowhere close to any kind of livestock and there was no shoo-ing or such, my wife was close enough to hear them (they have bells on their collars).

 

I'm not one for stricter gun controls and I know that I will find this miscreant and educate him on the error of his ways. Or, probably the police will and he will be done for a firearms offence. But it made me think: is it that bad an idea for all weapons holders (airgun-shotgun-rifle) to be registered? We all are aware of the dangers of the government imposing as much control and restriction of freedom as they wish. But, such behaviour shows that there is a proportion of society which does not deserve this freedom....

 

 

Best wishes

 

Finman

[MrCetrizine]

The problem with registration is it doesn't affect the criminals who are the ones who are the problem in the first place.

[DaveT]

The problem with registration is it doesn't affect the criminals who are the ones who are the problem in the first place.

Absolutely on the money!

[Finman]

It wasn't a yardie that shot the dog chaps, it was (most probably) someone with a legally purchased airweapon. This is not holding up banks and shooting drug lords, this is my wife walking the dogs...

[MrCetrizine]

So how would registration help? If they legally bought it, they'd legally register it and you'd still not know who they were.

[marty]

Make the punishment fit the crime when caught .

[Finman]

But the police could identify airgun owners in the area and investigate effectively MrC... At the moment I'm stalking banks and copses trying to locate these chaps

[Finman]

But the police could identify airgun owners in the area and investigate effectively MrC... At the moment I'm stalking banks and copses trying to locate these chaps

[gazzar15]

So every time there is an incident with an air rifle the police roust every airgun owner in the area just because they are all guilty by association ????

Absolutely not !!!!

[gbal]

"eliminate from our enquiries' is a more polite and accurate version,though some disruption of the innocent registered owners is unavoidable...Is it practicable?well,cost might be very considerable...

Then the real biggie,cost apart-many crimes are committed by illegally held weapons,and there is every likelihood that some air rifles would fall into the hands of 'unregistered' users....

Registration per se -properly up dated etc-is no bad idea,but no panacea ....

I'm not saying vigilante acton is the answer either....though discrete reporting might have a role( but NOT confrontation).

 

As the Romans found,you can suffer from laws,as well as crime....and it can be a delicate balance sometimes-even 'liberals' have no guaranteed "all hit/no misses " solutions.

 

Gbal

[Ratwhiskers]

Finman.

 

I'm most sorry to hear of your plight and that of hound.

 

As you know the area, would it not be prudent to ask the land owner if he has granted permission to anyone to walk his ground with an air rifle and go from there??

Had intended to add various suggestions here, but as you know what I'm like I'll leave your imagination to run wild all on it's own....

 

All the best for as speedy recovery, and a sound conclusion to events.

 

Ratty.

....

[hunter87]

Have you still got the pellet if the police do find the individual involved it would be good to have a pellet to match the barrel for evidence

[Mattnall]

Not saying this is the case in this instance, you don't mention if you have permission or other right to allow your dogs to be off the lead and on the land.

As farmers with pheasants we are always at war with dog walkers who think it is OK to let the dogs run/work the fields and cover while they walk along the footpath.

This is not responsible behaviour from the dog owners that one would expect in a quiet rural area. Many times a polite word with the walker and the dogs are kept on a lead in future, but there are one or two who think the countryside is a playground for them and their animals and that it doesn't matter that they have no permission or right of way and will keep doing it every time.

 

However that does not excuse the behaviour of whoever shot your dog. Hope he gets better soon.

[Finman]

Greetings from New Zealand...

 

I do have the pellet and will use it for successful prosecution of the culprit when I find him...Ratty, my imagination is up there with yours, and you will be kept abreast of developments...hound is doing remarkably well, being a tough little rathound.

 

Talk soon,

 

Finman

[gunner]

Have you still got the pellet if the police do find the individual involved it would be good to have a pellet to match the barrel for evidence

Plus1 i thought this straight away . I hope they get caught . Hope dogglett is ok too

[forbie]

I don't honestly believe they would do a forensic test on an airgun pellet to prove anything. "Firearms" since when did 12 ft/lb airguns become firearms?

[Wsm]

I don't honestly believe they would do a forensic test on an airgun pellet to prove anything. "Firearms" since when did 12 ft/lb airguns become firearms?

 

Offences committed with an air rifle,pistol or BB gun are treated as Firearm offences and included in the Firearms crime stats

[Missed]

Not saying this is the case in this instance, you don't mention if you have permission or other right to allow your dogs to be off the lead and on the land.

As farmers with pheasants we are always at war with dog walkers who think it is OK to let the dogs run/work the fields and cover while they walk along the footpath.

This is not responsible behaviour from the dog owners that one would expect in a quiet rural area. Many times a polite word with the walker and the dogs are kept on a lead in future, but there are one or two who think the countryside is a playground for them and their animals and that it doesn't matter that they have no permission or right of way and will keep doing it every time.

 

However that does not excuse the behaviour of whoever shot your dog. Hope he gets better soon.

I would agree with this. I have had to deal with dogs on quite a few occasions, usually at lambing time. Owners, because they know about 'right to roam' believe that they can let their dogs have free reign with the mindset 'its empty countryside and they are only chasing sheep or calves'. It comes as a great shock when some find that their dogs have been shot. In the last couple of years I have had the police call me out onto the hill to shoot dogs on over four occasions with their owners no where to be seen. Whilst I do not condone shooting dogs willy nilly or with airguns, remember it is very much a two way situation.

[Finman]

I would agree with this. I have had to deal with dogs on quite a few occasions, usually at lambing time. Owners, because they know about 'right to roam' believe that they can let their dogs have free reign with the mindset 'its empty countryside and they are only chasing sheep or calves'. It comes as a great shock when some find that their dogs have been shot. In the last couple of years I have had the police call me out onto the hill to shoot dogs on over four occasions with their owners no where to be seen. Whilst I do not condone shooting dogs willy nilly or with airguns, remember it is very much a two way situation.

Fellas, with all due respect, you are both way off the mark. There is no live stock, no shoots, no pheasant pens or any other reason for my dogs not be off the lead in the field in question, where I have been walking them for the last 10 years. And in any case should my dogs harass any livestock or game I would be the first to apologise and, if need be, compensate. This is a blatant case of a pikey with a gun who is the type responsible for the restrictions and reputation any gun owner seems to 'enjoy' from Joe Public. And, last time I checked, no one goes out to deal with troublesome dogs with an airgun...

[Mattnall]

I was only saying that we have had trouble with people who think it is fine to allow their dogs to wander all over the fields as if it was their own back garden. They don't have permission.

 

I'm sure you have permission to let your dog roam over this land.

 

 

We also run a clay school and allow air rifle shooting, both target and pest control. If one of these people's dogs was sniffing in the undergrowth behind the targets, in an area reserved as a back stop, then it might conceivably get hit by accident and the shooter might not even know about it.

 

I would not condone the shooting of dogs in any instance on the farm, a pheasant or partridge isn't worth shooting a dog over, but some of the dog owners who walk the footpaths on the farm, that could be a different matter. A dog on a footpath must be on a lead if it is not under close control, they seem to forget that.

[Missed]

Finman, I was not suggesting your dog should have been shot with an airgun, or anything else for that matter. What I was alluding to is those members of the public who have dogs over which they have no control and who care little about stock. In your case it appears that some towrag has decided it would be fun to take a pop at your dog for no other reason other than the fact that it was close at hand. These people do give all of us a bad name as the press cannot, or will not differentiate between legitimate and illegal use of firearms. Unfortunately, you will always find someone in every single sport who behaves in a way that causes problems for everyone else, I see it quite regularly in the world of paragliding.

[baldie]

In very common indeed in the world of Airgunning.

 

Exactly why they should be licensed.

[Wsm]

In very common indeed in the world of Airgunning.

 

Exactly why they should be licensed.

100% agree Dave

[Missed]

In very common indeed in the world of Airgunning.

 

Exactly why they should be licensed.

I am afraid I disagree with that sentiment 100%. Licencing will sort nothing out, especially as there are so many airguns currently in circulation. Education is the root of the issue. The populist press are very quick to run lurid stories regarding firearms misuse and, by so doing glorify it in some peoples eyes. The very same press however, is very reluctant to advertise where young people can learn to handle firearms in a safe, controlled environment; double standers or what?

 

When it comes to having access to 'dangerous' items, we as older children had access to both shotguns and rifles. They were never abused because ewe were taught the just how dangerous they can be. Instead we made crossbows with nothing more than three planks of hardwood, a vehicle leaf spring, a bag of hacksaw blades and some time. These 'toys' were responsible for quite a few venison dinners and could easily kill a bull at 60+M. Even the catapults we made could kill a dog without much trouble.

 

The point I am trying to make is this: it is easy to fall into the trap of 'ban it or licence it', however that fails to address the issue. Far better to educate and if someone then goes beyond the law, the law should prosecute and punish properly. Regarding the above dog; a series of offences have allegedly been committed, therefore the police should pursue, charge and let the courts convict. If the police show reluctance, choosing instead to ask for ever more restrictive laws, then they too are part of the problem.

[gbal]

Missed,I have sympathy with much of what you say.Granted registration cannot deal with air guns already in circulation,it can do no harm to have future sales registered,as a longer term policy,and is do-able without huge resources.

Police seldom clamour for restrictive laws,though they have a contribution to make-and they must be mindful of their current resources,which are not unlimited-operational priorities .Citizens,and their representatives (MPs etc) do have some say in what the priorities and policies might be.

Your point about education is well made,and I realise you are not advocating DIY cross bow kits ! I'd slant the post conviction consequences to at least include restitution/re-education...as in this sad dog case,maybe some compulsory service in an animal welfare hospital/rehab centre,at least for a first offence.If a more balanced attitude to animals does not develop,it's time for whatever our society can come up with to replace Botany Bay!

Gbal