Barrel contour

[Vermincinerator]

When i first got interested in BR in the mid 90's i bought a Benchrest book by a guy called Glenn Newick, a champion shooter and Benchrest hall of Fame member.

In his chapter on barrels, although the choice was a lot lower than what we have today Hart barrels were the favourite with the rest using mainly Shilen and Douglas.

Glenn explained that because the Hart cost $40 more then the Shilen or the Douglas lots of top flight shooters were convinced it was a better, Hart barrels won there fair share of trophy's that season but lost a hell of a lot more.

It just so happens the top barrel that season was a Shilen.

Two years Later Douglas were taking the top honours and so on, if you follow BR you will see that barrels form different makers are breaking different records, nothing is really shining above the others as the all winning all conquering barrel maker.

 

Ian.

[Elwood]

I had to laugh at a quote I read on the Snipers Hide the other day.

 

A top match winning shooter said after winning a match if I turn up next week with a bicycle tube stuck to the side of my stock and win, the following week everyone else will be doing the same.

 

That's not word for word but damned close, if I find it again I will copy and paste it, I believe the guy was a very well known marksman.

 

Anyway it amused me

[JR__]

Elwood,

Technically it would make sense that they are the softest.

I asked that question to two lads from border when at

the IWA and both confirmed that the cut lasts least.

 

edi

 

Edi, you give me the names of those two lads so I can remember to slap them upside their head next time I see them. hahah.. Either you heard them wrong, or they did not have enough background to make such a statement. Because that is one big load of broccoli. Shame I couldn't make it to Nuremburg, cuz would have learned ya'll a thing or two on the subject.

 

JR

[Elwood]

Shame I couldn't make it to Nuremburg, cuz would have learned ya'll a thing or two on the subject.

 

JR

 

It's not to late JR....get writing and spill the beans so to speak..pretty please.

 

Seriously your thoughts and opinions on this subject would be gratefully appreciated.

 

It would seem that my choice of barrels is between Bartlein and Border as they can both make what I want. Alas it would seem I am leaning toward Bartlein as it appears it will a lot cheaper even with shipping and duty. I have allowed 25% of the total cost for duty and shipping, would that seem to be about right?

[DaveK]

re your comment read from a book

 

the USA use more barrels than we ever will,so don't be so fast to dismiss what you or anyone reads.at this moment in time,there is no where better to get your info from than the USA.

its a very stupid man that reads that this or that is having loads of problems and dismisses it just because he has read it.

writing was invented so we could save and pass on our knowledge,and after thousands of years it still remains,y because it still works.

read and learn

 

o and y do you come on here ???? to read other peoples opinions and may be not make the same mistake as others.

 

ATB

Colin

 

 

Chill out Col. You've onviously misinterpreted what I was saying. Which was that the advice was being given from experience. The experience may have resulted from reading about it (which as you rightly said shouldn't be discounted). Bute advice given was from actual experience which, to me, is worth more than a book could tell me. Would you prefer to employ a plumber from the yellow pages or from recommendations of people that he'd worked for?

 

Nothing contentious was meant by my post but if you chose to take it that way then so be it (it only seems to be you that's taken offence).

 

Dave

[col48]

Chill out Col. You've onviously misinterpreted what I was saying. Which was that the advice was being given from experience. The experience may have resulted from reading about it (which as you rightly said shouldn't be discounted). Bute advice given was from actual experience which, to me, is worth more than a book could tell me. Would you prefer to employ a plumber from the yellow pages or from recommendations of people that he'd worked for?

 

Nothing contentious was meant by my post but if you chose to take it that way then so be it (it only seems to be you that's taken offence).

 

Dave

hi chap

no need to chill out -,i don't get up set .

the info does come from people with first hand experience.in fact more experience than anyone in the UK.(if you read from the right places)

i was just pointing this out.

 

as for plumbers. i was in the building trade so i know plenty of tradesmen

 

ATB

Colin

[DaveK]

as for plumbers. i was in the building trade so i know plenty of tradesmen

 

ATB

Colin

 

Can you get one to do a stuck radiator valve for me please :lol:

[col48]

Can you get one to do a stuck radiator valve for me please

 

 

ill have one up Wakefield tomorrow morning

[ejg223]

Edi, you give me the names of those two lads so I can remember to slap them upside their head next time I see them. hahah.. Either you heard them wrong, or they did not have enough background to make such a statement. Because that is one big load of broccoli. Shame I couldn't make it to Nuremburg, cuz would have learned ya'll a thing or two on the subject.

 

JR

 

So JR, can you explain how you come to that conclusion.

same steel, one compressed and forged at the surface, the other machine cut.

 

What would also interest me is what is mainly responsible for the wear, ist it the heat cracking the steel,

corrosion or wear. Or roughly in %

edi

[JR__]

[JR__]

So JR, can you explain how you come to that conclusion.

same steel, one compressed and forged at the surface, the other machine cut.

 

What would also interest me is what is mainly responsible for the wear, ist it the heat cracking the steel,

corrosion or wear. Or roughly in %

edi

 

Did begin a response, but to do so required me to go thru each of the barrelmaking methods to make the explanation complete, and was getting a bit too specific on the manufacturing processes, was looking more like a book than a forum post. I do enough of that at work, as am planning a set up for all 3 methods in house, so frankly I'd rather not go thru the rig-ma-roll right now. Maybe another time.

 

I will say that I didn't 'come' to the conclusion, that's the way it is, and have been around the scene for a while ya ken. Hammer forged are not made for accurate barrel life, they are what you use until you can afford a good barrel. Cut rifled barrels generally have longer accurate barrel life than button barrels. What is mainly responsible for barrel wear is pulling the trigger, the environment which you shoot, and the dimensions of the bore. Hardness means little to accurate life if the barrel wasn't made accurately in the first place.

 

Take care

 

JR

[ds1]

JR,

 

Shame you changed your post, I read what you wrote before you changed it - it was well worth the read.

 

David.

[JR__]

JR,

 

Shame you changed your post, I read what you wrote before you changed it - it was well worth the read.

 

David.

 

I'll come back to it DS1, but as a thread in it's own right...would just get lost in the mix if left on page 2 of a barrel contour thread topic.

 

JR

[Ronin]

JR

 

 

could you expand on the comment re accuracy and bore dimensions please?

 

 

Ive done a couple of barrels of the same calibre that were made by different manufacturers.

 

(only just started out on doing my own)

 

While there was no change in internal dimensions of either maker from end to end, I noticed that there was a considerable difference in the measured diameter (off the lands with pin guages) of either one .2555" and .2565"

 

So one 6.5mm barrel is "tighter" than the other.

 

 

In your experience is this noteworthy or have a detrimental affect on accuracy?

[JR__]

Ronin,

 

Not so much is the deeper bore going to affect as long as the lands aren't awful wide on the tops, but I try to ask what bullets are used before using nonstandard rather than generalise across the spectrum, as some bullets can vary from one make to another. Some european 6.5's are often .255-.2567 bore diameter per CIP, American standards per SAAMI are usually .256-.2565.. If I made taller than standard land heights with conventional rifling form, usually went for just slightly narrower lands. Or if I knew the bullets were going to be thin jacketed and shot hard and fast, like the older Berger varmint 224 and 6mm bullets for example, would run a narrower land at the top with a less than abrupt edge at the land/groove intersection. Seemed to help keep them from ending up a white puff of smoke just past the muzzle..You should be fine with the .2555, we were running this diameter with the 95vld's on our own rifles at stupid velocities, and were tack drivers..

 

JR

[Ronin]

JR

 

 

thanks for the reply, as it happens the .2555" barrel is a 6.5mm Lothar and the .2565" is a Lawton so your experience with differences bettween CIP and SAAMI bear true.

 

Bullets for both will be 123g Scenar or 130 grain Berger and they are both 6.5x47's predicted to run at 2900 - 3000 fps.

 

Will be interesting to see how two barrels chambered with the same reamer perform - off to proof next week then testing time

[baldie]

My money,s on the lawton.