Bartlein Barrels.

[jay666d]

I'm looking into re-barreling my .223

 

It's a Remington 700P, and I'm looking to shoot 90Gr Bergers as far as I can!

 

I was looking around for barrels, (most likely a 1in7 twist) trying to get some prices together and I came across a 30" light varmint barrel with a 1in6.5 twist made by Bartlein.

 

I was just wondering if anybody had heard of them?

 

Any advice or opinions on my re-build would be appreciated!

 

I've decided to follow this re-build route to archive distance because it have become apparent that I won't be able to get a bigger caliber on my ticket!

 

All the best.

 

Jay.

[22cf]

They are only one of ther very best barrel makers on the planet

 

If you want advice on a long range .223 shoting the heavy VLD's contact Laurie.

[jay666d]

They are only one of ther very best barrel makers on the planet :-)

That's good to know. :-)

 

What have you heard?

[mikeroz]

Yes they are. I believe they are the barrel of choice for Mik Maksimovic of Dolphin Guns. If Mik recommends them they must be good.

[jay666d]

I have briefly talked to Laurie, but it was with ref to my current barrel and the difficulties I'll face shooting heavier bullets... That spurred me on to look into re-barreling!

[srvet]

A very big +1 for Bartlein barrels. Mine is in 6.5 and shoots bugholes

[jay666d]

A very big +1 for Bartlein barrels. Mine is in 6.5 and shoots bugholes

I have been offered a 6.5, (a few more £'s than I had anticipated, leaves me less to tune up my action!) I like the sound of it! What weight bullet do you shoot?

[1967spud]

ive used them on several different rifles and had some decent groups out to 1000 yards and the odd win in competitions using them

[John MH]

Good barrels.

[jcampbellsmith]

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/01/02/best-rifle-barrel/ Regards JCS

[gbal]

Jay,Laurie has more experience with getting a 223 to target shoot at distance than mos,and is one of the very few who did so with some success.(But....).Bartlein are among the very best barrels,well worth the extra couple of hundred-fitting etc is just the same cost. (90g were tried but seemed to offer little benefit over the 80g,as I recall;the 90g does need the faster twist-but take Laurie's advice on this-a 1 in 8 usually handles up to 80g,and is a little more versatile,maybe?Don't expect any 223 to perform like the better bigger cartridges at distances of 700+.It can get to 1000,but there tends to be a fair bit of space between the holes! It's really a handicap not an aid to long range precision shooting.It simply cannot generate enough velocity with appropriate higher BC bullets.That is why almost no one uses the 223 if they want any kind of long range performance.If you are a club member and have longer range access,you should not have any issues in getting a more suitable target calibre(s) in addition to your 223. Listen to Laurie.

Gbal

[jay666d]

Jay,Laurie has more experience with getting a 223 to target shoot at distance than mos,and is one of the very few who did so with some success.(But....).Bartlein are among the very best barrels,well worth the extra couple of hundred-fitting etc is just the same cost. (90g were tried but seemed to offer little benefit over the 80g,as I recall;the 90g does need the faster twist-but take Laurie's advice on this-a 1 in 8 usually handles up to 80g,and is a little more versatile,maybe?Don't expect any 223 to perform like the better bigger cartridges at distances of 700+.It can get to 1000,but there tends to be a fair bit of space between the holes! It's really a handicap not an aid to long range precision shooting.It simply cannot generate enough velocity with appropriate higher BC bullets.That is why almost no one uses the 223 if they want any kind of long range performance.If you are a club member and have longer range access,you should not have any issues in getting a more suitable target calibre(s) in addition to your 223. Listen to Laurie.

Gbal

I hear what your saying! It would be so much simpler if I was a club member, but unfortunately due to work & when clubs meet, I'd probably never get out of the probation phase!

 

I realise the reality of what a .223 can and can't do, but I'll have to make the best of it!

 

I'm not worried about getting the tightest group... I just plink steel! (it's very satisfying to hear it ring back at you!) I'd just like to be able to set up and dial in a number of targets at ranges up to 1k, with any luck, hitting each one 1st time.

[gbal]

I hear what your saying! It would be so much simpler if I was a club member, but unfortunately due to work & when clubs meet, I'd probably never get out of the probation phase!

I realise the reality of what a .223 can and can't do, but I'll have to make the best of it!

I'm not worried about getting the tightest group... I just plink steel! (it's very satisfying to hear it ring back at you!) I'd just like to be able to set up and dial in a number of targets at ranges up to 1k, with any luck, hitting each one 1st time.

Understood,Jay. I'm still a bit of a 'bang,clang' fan too-never did win enough coconuts at the fair!

Let's say it's more ...errr.... challenging beyond 700y with a 223,but well possible,if no wind......First shot......even a 1/2 moa rifle will be doing well to hold 6 inches at 750 yards..... so get the big gongs,you can always go for the middle-dustbin lids though are too big! Enjoy!

Gbal

[terryh]

Jay,

 

You probably won't go wrong with any of the known barrel makers. I've had a few Bartiens and currently run them on a 6.5x47 and a 7SAUM, both work very well to date.

 

I'm a fan of the '5R' rifiling (or 5C or 5* dependant who supplies the barrel) for no other reason than it makes sense to me and appears to 'work', there are comments out there but they probably are anecdotal

 

The 'best barrel' thing can be a bit funny, Broughton used to be 'the winner' so everyone wanted them, the delivery time went up, so folks buy brand 'X' and start winning so this becomes the barrel of choice and so on.

 

But it is a good indicator for any shooting sport you do. Look at what kit wins then you know the only problem is you (but for some this can be hard to accept )

 

6.5 is a nice cal.

 

Terry

[jay666d]

Yeah, the 5R makes seance to me too...

 

I'm fully prepared to blame all my kit, lol... A bad workman and all that!

[Brummy Mark]

Jay, I had a new barrel fitted to mine not so long ago, 3 groove 1:7 twist Lilja Barrel throated for 90gr vld, the barrel is a shooter alright! shoots everything from 60gr Bergers in to 1/4" the same for 75 and 80gr amax, have tried some 90gr VLD and best was just under 1/2", I need to do some more work with that load though as Im sure I can shrink it down a bit.

[jay666d]

Jay, I had a new barrel fitted to mine not so long ago, 3 groove 1:7 twist Lilja Barrel throated for 90gr vld, the barrel is a shooter alright! shoots everything from 60gr Bergers in to 1/4" the same for 75 and 80gr amax, have tried some 90gr VLD and best was just under 1/2", I need to do some more work with that load though as Im sure I can shrink it down a bit.

That's reassuring! I think I'm defiantly leaning towards the 1in7 as opposed the 1in8.

 

I hadn't thought about changing the throat though... :-/

[Brummy Mark]

To be honest this was a bit of an indulgent experiment for me, although I have places where I can shoot out to around 1200yds on target or gong, my main thing is varminting and for this I end up going straight back to 60gr at 3000fps and 75gr at around 2700fps. Also you have to be aware of your maximum COAL in your magazine, my COAL for the 75gr is 2.545" and they reliably feed without hiccup from a .223 AI magazine, and with my maximum COAL for the 75grainers at 2.585" Im 40thou off the lands, Im sure it would tighten the groups if I seated out just a bit further, however I would have to single feed them as too long for magazine. 90gr are single feed from the top.

 

So for long range on feathers, giving myself a window of 2" target area and 60 or 75gr Im consisted with a 1st round hit out to 350 ish yds on a still day, however add a bit of wind and the misses start to stack up, this is the real world and I would challenge anyone with a rifle that can shoot 1 hole groups to put their hand on heart and say they can get a 1st round hit on a 2" target out past 350 onwards with a slight bit of wind and using a .223. (I mean 1st round hit too, not shoot at range 1st for drop/wind and dial it, I mean shooting for the hit 1st time). When you do actually connect with a feathered target at 400 plus yards there is a hell of a lot of luck involved.

 

First round hit at ranges out to 800yds with 90gr VLD, hell yes on a 14" bit of steel, again wind is the hardest thing to read, for me anyway.

 

I would urge you to think about where your heart lies, is it shooting big gongs at long range, or is it foxes and feathers? You only have to search youtube for vids of long range varmints, loads and loads and loads of long range on big fat bunnies, not so much showing long range shots on smaller sized targets as in reality it doesn't quiet happen that way!

 

A few weeks back 3 of us set up on a hill, with areas ranging from 275 to 430yds in range from out lie-up position. lots of feathered things hopping around and moving about, a good friend shooting 22BR pinged a maggie at 320yds, across a valley with a 3mph right to left wind. 1st shot missed low and left (data was dialled from his horus kestrel) maggie stupidly stayed in the tree! 2nd shot clipped tail feathers! maggie stayed in tree!! 3rd shot maggie in millions of feathers and thats with a round developing 4100fps so pretty fast and flat, now was it varying wind, shooter error/ a combination of both? probably both plus not counting fro shooting across a valley with down draught.

Similar scenario for me on the same day, ranged a big black feathered thing at 395yds, Im prone off a bipod and the wind is minimal, ping target, dial drop and windage, final focus and bang, made it jump with dust at its feet, this was a cross-valley shot and the shot got pushed down by a small bit of wind that I didn't dial for, shooter error.

 

Both rifles will shoot 1 hole groups, sometimes! sometimes they shoot sub 1/2"!

 

If it was me I would try some 75gr or even 80gr amax first or some 77gr with your current rifle before thinking about a rebarrel.

[srvet]

I have been offered a 6.5, (a few more £'s than I had anticipated, leaves me less to tune up my action!) I like the sound of it! What weight bullet do you shoot?

Mine is a 6.5x47 with a 1 in 8.25 twist. Shoots mainly the 123 scenar over 36 grains of varget or 120g NBT over 37g varget.

[jay666d]

To be honest this was a bit of an indulgent experiment for me, although I have places where I can shoot out to around 1200yds on target or gong, my main thing is varminting and for this I end up going straight back to 60gr at 3000fps and 75gr at around 2700fps. Also you have to be aware of your maximum COAL in your magazine, my COAL for the 75gr is 2.545" and they reliably feed without hiccup from a .223 AI magazine, and with my maximum COAL for the 75grainers at 2.585" Im 40thou off the lands, Im sure it would tighten the groups if I seated out just a bit further, however I would have to single feed them as too long for magazine. 90gr are single feed from the top.

 

So for long range on feathers, giving myself a window of 2" target area and 60 or 75gr Im consisted with a 1st round hit out to 350 ish yds on a still day, however add a bit of wind and the misses start to stack up, this is the real world and I would challenge anyone with a rifle that can shoot 1 hole groups to put their hand on heart and say they can get a 1st round hit on a 2" target out past 350 onwards with a slight bit of wind and using a .223. (I mean 1st round hit too, not shoot at range 1st for drop/wind and dial it, I mean shooting for the hit 1st time). When you do actually connect with a feathered target at 400 plus yards there is a hell of a lot of luck involved.

 

First round hit at ranges out to 800yds with 90gr VLD, hell yes on a 14" bit of steel, again wind is the hardest thing to read, for me anyway.

 

I would urge you to think about where your heart lies, is it shooting big gongs at long range, or is it foxes and feathers? You only have to search youtube for vids of long range varmints, loads and loads and loads of long range on big fat bunnies, not so much showing long range shots on smaller sized targets as in reality it doesn't quiet happen that way!

 

A few weeks back 3 of us set up on a hill, with areas ranging from 275 to 430yds in range from out lie-up position. lots of feathered things hopping around and moving about, a good friend shooting 22BR pinged a maggie at 320yds, across a valley with a 3mph right to left wind. 1st shot missed low and left (data was dialled from his horus kestrel) maggie stupidly stayed in the tree! 2nd shot clipped tail feathers! maggie stayed in tree!! 3rd shot maggie in millions of feathers and thats with a round developing 4100fps so pretty fast and flat, now was it varying wind, shooter error/ a combination of both? probably both plus not counting fro shooting across a valley with down draught.

Similar scenario for me on the same day, ranged a big black feathered thing at 395yds, Im prone off a bipod and the wind is minimal, ping target, dial drop and windage, final focus and bang, made it jump with dust at its feet, this was a cross-valley shot and the shot got pushed down by a small bit of wind that I didn't dial for, shooter error.

 

Both rifles will shoot 1 hole groups, sometimes! sometimes they shoot sub 1/2"!

 

If it was me I would try some 75gr or even 80gr amax first or some 77gr with your current rifle before thinking about a rebarrel.

 

An enjoyable read Mark... Almost forgot what you said at the top, ;-)

 

My aim is for mid to long range steel... I use my .17 for fur & feathers and I tend to leave the foxes for my brother.

 

I, like you feed from an AI mag. I'm currently developing a load, to shoot 80Gr AMax (I have a heavy 26" 1in9 twist barrel) and use the same COAL as you. (2.545) I have settled on a charge that gives me on average a 2760 fps, so now to work on the groups and the range.

 

This is how the re-barreling came about... I was sceptical that I could shoot the 80's and was keen to shoot the Berger 90Gr VLD's!

 

I just feel, since I can't get a bigger caliber, my .223 needs all the help it can get for all the reasons you stated above!

 

(I'm sure I was gonna say something else, but I honestly can't remember!) :-)

 

Jay

[jay666d]

Mine is a 6.5x47 with a 1 in 8.25 twist. Shoots mainly the 123 scenar over 36 grains of varget or 120g NBT over 37g varget.

I wanted to use Varget, but just can't get a hold of it at the moment!

[srvet]

I wanted to use Varget, but just can't get a hold of it at the moment!

N140 shoots as well for me

with identical charge weights if you can't get varget