Ronin Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 I made a decision at the end of last years F Class season to take a year out.....with the intention to compete in one comp in 2011 - the Europeans at Bisely. That's this week,, (4th 5th for individuals and 6th for team event) I bought two Broughton 5R, 7mm (9 twist) barrels in late 2010 and have been sitting on them ever since - the intention is to chamber on in 7mm/270 WSM again and the other in 284 Shehane. My F Class rifle is basically a Barnard P action in a Shehane Tracker stock which has served me well for the last two years in F Class competition in 7mm/270 WSM, I now have a .473" spare bolt for non magnum calibres . As I have a few other projects ongoing, I tend to leave my own things till the last minute... I started machining one of the new Broughtons on tuesday,, everything went well and by that evening I had a chambered and fitted barrel, which just closed on a Go Guage - slight crush fit on 284 Lapua cases - just what I wanted. Like I said, last minute charlie,, didnt have any bullets - fortuantely a call to brian Fox sourced 500 180 SMK and another calls to HPS sourced some 175 SMK to test. I machined the dies on wedesday from Newlon blanks. Next job was to neck turn 150 284 cases - i used 6.5x284 Lapua cases necked up to 7mm, trimmed to length then lathe turned the necks to .013 thickness. My reamer is a 313" nk, so with .013" neck wall thickness and a 284 bullet, I will have .0015" clearance all around the neck of the chamber. The brass took a few hours work and to be honest I find neck turning pretty tedious.... However, once done, I dont have any more to do. Friday saw me prepping the cases for loading - flash hole de bur and chamfer and de-bur the case mouths. Then start to work up loads for testing. I messed with quickload and spoke to Dave (6mmBR) for some pointers. Deciding on a start load of 56g 4831SC up to 58.5g in .5 increments to 57 and .3 thereafter. I intended a range visit yesterday but low cloud and rain prevented this. Today, clear skies, slight breeze (5mph) although very wet underfoot, I went with my gear to the range. Set up at 100 mtrs, set up the Oehler 20 feet from the muzzle due to the ground conditions and started barrel break in... Shoot first 5 and clean. (56g) ave 2765fps (ES 79) 56.5g 2802 (es 31) 57g 2817 (es 25) 57.3g 2834 (es 33) 57.6g 2859 (es 19) 57.9 2870 (es 19) Kicking myself with this load as I think I pulled the last shot (the flyer) this is what it would have been .... 58g 2869 (es 21) 58.2 2870 (es 10) This target should be orientated 90 degrees to right - no vertical spread. Now above Quickloads safe max, so I stopped any further, although no obvious sign of pressure. Quite pleased with the results - I wanted to make 2900 fps with the 180's and by my calculations I have - (Oehler was 20 feet from the muzzle and I recon 30fps is lost at this distance ...) 57.9g load = 2870 fps + 30 fps (accounting for distance to chronograph) - 2900 fps I noticed a few flyers in the groups, barrel is not fully broken in, another range visit is planned tuesday, which whould allow it to settle down, although I think the accuracy node at least with the 180 SMK is at 57.6 / 57.9 grains 4831 SC. My thought is to use the 57.9g load and play a little with seat depth - everything was .015" off lands with .002" neck tension. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Thoughts? Re-do the headspace on that chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylor Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 my old broughton banged with 58 grns and the broughtons tend to speed up a lot you should be up to 2950fps after 150 rounds down the tube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbit fingers Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 I'm happy to defur to anyone with more experience but my feeling is it wouldn't take much of a change in temperature or some other factor to make the 57.9 group behave like the 58. ie move poi down and scatter.I don't see a picture of the group for the 57.3 charge? but if that has a poi close the 57.6 I'd be tempted to use 57.6 and play with the oal, should be a nice stable load. Be interested in how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted October 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 57.3 load was similar to 57.6 didnt catch the screen shot of that. Interesting point regarding the 57.9 load, however theres only 1 fps difference bettween the two... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted October 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Thanks Grant, I dont think it will be fully run in time for friday, but we'll see. Shows very little copper or carbon fouling, hopefully this will remain that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbit fingers Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Yes curious only 1 fps in it but the 2 loads behaved quite differently. 58.2 looks like the middle of the scatter node so can't help thinking the 57.9 load wont be stable. looking forward to round 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylor Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 58.2 looks good in my eyes good es nice round group thats the load i would shoot ,i didnt get pressure till 59+ with the broughton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted October 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 58.2 looks good in my eyes good es nice round group thats the load i would shoot ,i didnt get pressure till 59+ with the broughton I was thinking that this may be the start of the second accuracy node, but didnt want to push it, untill id had time to examine the brass at home under a loupe. Primer pockets are tight and no obvious "shining" of case base (no plunger in my bolt head) and no primer cratering - just nicely flattened. Worth persevering I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbit fingers Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 58.2 looks good in my eyes good es nice round group thats the load i would shoot I find it very interesting how people read targets differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6mmBR Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Hi Andy looking good. My Bartlein ended up liking 58 grains. My barrel also speeded up and by 150 rounds was giving 2930 fps with 180 Bergers. Like you I was dissapointed with the initial velocities but that has sorted out. You'll just have to get your butt down earlier to get a few more rounds down her on practice day. will be good to catch up. Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted October 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Dave no chance of getting down for practice. Will be 22:00 at earliest I think with open road and clear weather maybe half hour earlier.... Velocities - happy with what I have so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6mmBR Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Dave no chance of getting down for practice. Will be 22:00 at earliest I think with open road and clear weather maybe half hour earlier.... Velocities - happy with what I have so far. Have a safe journey and we'll try to save you a bit of "Greedy B@stard" pizza See you on the range Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 I know I would be playing with 58.2 grains with a ES of 10, perhaps move the 180's in and out of the case a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Pimp Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Andy, A few of the 1000 yd benchrest guys have noticed the difference in accuracy between the 180SMK and the 180 Berger - try some! Cheers Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergal Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Have had it on numerous occasions especially with 7mm or .284s. Trying to get something like this ready days before a match is kinda crazy. I run lots of these and the set up that was dead nuts on the last barrel is never the same on the next barrel. Its the biggest pain in b***ox calibe Ive ever had to deal with but its lethal when you get it going. 7-270 is the way to go, the Sheehan is gaining popularity but its debateable if its a step ahead of the WSM. I think The WSM is as good as it gets, wind is the place where guys should be putting there focus on, thats the one force thats always there for the challenge. Calibres will never change the wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyt Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Ronin dont get to hooked up on speed these things hammer around 2860 fps , i think they are about as good as it gets when taking recoil and repeatabilty in to account , the WSMs are very good in the wind at 1000 yrds , but as we all know its a fine knife edge to ride and when they go off ists drastick.I think the .284s are more forgiving all round , and kinder on Brass . Sierras are great in my shehane both 175 and 180 grns . good luck this week, by the way i shot and fire formed last year in the euros and had no problems at 800/900 but got some vertical at 1000 yrds , if you have only part fireformed cases save em for 1000 yrd point. By the by what free bore have you in your reamer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Andy, this may sound silly, but i,ve proved it to myself, time and time again. Put some small square stickers on the carboard instead of drawing irregular dots on the card. I'll bet you havent got the same aimpoint on some of those groups with unexplained flyers. Its a lot easier to sit a crosshair on the corner of a small square every time. That is looking real good. Best of luck with it in the comp buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Andy, A few of the 1000 yd benchrest guys have noticed the difference in accuracy between the 180SMK and the 180 Berger - try some! Cheers Vince Vince, i'm only going to use SMK, the price or Bergers at the moment is just silly.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Trying to get something like this ready days before a match is kinda crazy. Yea, I know mate, ive been busy with other stuff - work, kids, stalking, etc etc etc etc 7-270 is the way to go, the Sheehan is gaining popularity but its debateable if its a step ahead of the WSM. I think The WSM is as good as it gets, wind is the place where guys should be putting there focus on, thats the one force thats always there for the challenge. Calibres will never change the wind. Agreed, but I havent any new Norma WSM brass, so decided to use the Shehane reamer, there is 200 fps difference in the two calibres, and less verticals with the Shehane, I think youre right about wind reading, it is really down to the man behind the gun. WSM makes it easy (easier), the shehane is maybe a 1/2 MOA less wind tolerant at 1k... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Danny leade is .239", appears perfect for 175 / 180's - I specced it for these anyway. Base of the 180 is just at the neck / shoulder union. 58 grain load is only just compressed. I intend to save the fierformed cases for 1000, 1100 and 1200 if we shoot that. Dave, thanks, good tip, I relised i'd made a mistake with the target blobs when I got to the range - having been used to a max of 16 power for 12 months I forgot that the scope was 32x... Makes big difference, even when i tried to bisect the blobs I found I was wandering a little, which could of explained the off shots. Settling back behind the rifle after 12 months off it always takes some time too. I'll be back there tomorrow using 58.2 and 57.9 maybe try 58.5 as well... Either way, i'm happy with the results so far, I know ive left it late, but busy chap that I am, there's more to life than getting wound up over comps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Thought i'd give you a update on the Europeans (well my version) After settling on a load that gave decent accuracy - sub 1/3 MOA, (58.2g H4831SC, MV 2889 fps and es in low teens) I loaded 120 rounds with circa 80 of them being fireformed cases. The rifle was zero'd at 200 mtrs and hasnt up untill bisley, been shot beyond that distance, so my come ups were pure predictions from a ballistic programme (I would normally have asked BD to do me a chart, but there wasnt time and this load I used will not be my final comp load....) I set off late on thursday evening and feeling a bit ropey, drove down in torrential rain to Bisley arriving at 2 am....tired and damp, but having booked a cabin on Crawford Lines for two nights at least I would be dry. Friday morning came too quickly and after breakfast went to Stickledown to get my entrants pack and meet with friends I havent shot with for twelve months. Good to catch up, but having noted I was down to shoot first detail at 800 yds, I went to the firing point and waited for the RO to allow us to set up. I have to apologise now that I cannot recall who was was teamed up to shoot with at each distance. Anyway - having got set up we had a two min "blow off" period. Targets up, first sighter at 800 - scored 4 - high and slightly right of centre, then i remembered that the sand is quite some distance behind the targets at bisely so dropped .5 moa off the scope. Second sighter V bull - happy boy. Converted that and went on to clean the target with 7 v bulls to boot (75.5) Wind was a steady 5 mph L-R requiring 1.5 MOA windage The Shehane was very flat shooting (no vertical) to speak of and recoil totally different to the WSM im used to (much, much less) So feeling warm and rosey, I moved back to 900 and waited what seemed forever to shoot my detail. Things didnt go quite as well at 900 - I had an unexplained 1 on my second shot to score, the shot falling at 6 o clock in the 1 ring - the previous shot was a 5 and the shot thereafter a 5 with no scope ajustment - only thought is ive short charged a case somehow.... This cost me valuable points and i completed 900 with 68.3 - ex 75 Wind remained pretty constant throughout the detail requiring 2.25 MOA Back to 1000 yds and im starting to feel ropier than I had been earlier - a nagging cough ive had for weeks seemed to be heading onto my chest - not helped by laying on wet grass in the rain! Temperature (mine) was all over the place too, apologies to those I spoke to who got short or obtuse replies to questions... Anyway, 1000 yds saw similar wind vlue and a score of 67.3v (ex 75) With the day over, I retired to the cabin, cleaned the rifle and attempted to get some sleep before going for a pleasant meal at the Artists Club and early night for more sleep. Unfortunatly, best laid plans saw me up every hour with coughing fit and desire to put on as many clothes and blanket as possible - yup - chest infection set in good style! Sunday morning - woke at 6, felt like crap, long hot shower - felt worse, almost bugged out, but decided to stay. First shoot at 800 saw me score 72.8v - I was pleased with this considering how bad I felt! 900 saw a 69.2v - the wind was in totally different direction to previosu day and causing some lift - which others experienced too. 1000 - saw a score of 92.2v (ex 100) again pretty pleased with this considering. I left for home within an hour of finishing my last detail. what ive come away with : 1, even with minimal load development, the Shehane is, IMHO a more stable (less verticals) option than WSM based cases. 2, dont take 12 months off the "league" and think you'll be competative on return! 3, Ive sorely missed being part of the F Class League this last 12 months! 4, Dont push old bodies too far, there comes a point where it will say, "ENOUGH" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyt Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 lots to look forward to next year then Andy ,speaking to another Shehane fan at the comp (Grant) he thinks he will back with his old faithfull . Not good news for the rest of the league. I must say the last shoot at 1000 was good fun at the high numbers vertical of about 1. moa when the wind picked up ,and let off. Its great to see the rest of Europe getting competative. Good luck with your load development over the winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6mmBR Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 It was good to catch up guys. Like you I fought elevation all weekend. I think head winds and tail winds being the culprit! It was great to see such a huge turnout (180) shooters from all over Europe. What a brutal comp though drop 1 point and drop 10-15 places! We will alll need to get our acts together for next year. Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Pimp Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 In spite of Andy's (Ronin) comments re the 7mmWSM, a glance at the equipment lists of the top ten League shooters and the top ten 'Europeans' shooters on the GBFCA website www.gbfclass.co.uk tells the true story - you just gotta have a WSM! The winds were quite light all weekend - ideal for a good WSM - it will stay in the 'five' when less cartridges drift into the four ring. Having said that Grant (Taylor) has done amazingly well with his 284 and personally, I put that down to his shooting but then again, look at Russell Simmonds with his 308 if you really want to feel depressed. He has won the odd League shoot outright! Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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