John MH

Provisionally sold

Wait and see, hopefully not years.

3 minutes ago, No i deer said:

There can't be many private venues available that has approved range templates for this type of shooting.

There aren’t.

1 minute ago, dorg said:

Absolutely agree about Andrew Mercer not being shooter orientated but apparently the next bloke is. I think we have to accept facilities like Bisley have to be paid for, by the people who use it,and thats us  the shooters.

Is Mercer leaving?

Nothing is ever for free, value for money is the key.

Your annual Subs go to the NRA, the NSC is constituted a business and whilst technically separate the Range Fees you pay goes to the NSC not the NRA. The current financial position of the NRA/NSC is not good but it would have been far worse if the current CEO had not turned it around, shame he’s not shooter focussed.

2 minutes ago, dorg said:

What is often missed is that Bisley is a charity, and is run that way, it is not a profit making operation. We may disagree with the way it is run and the management structure. I personally think it could be run much more effectively. But its not long ago it had massive debts and was in a dire situation, and whatever you think of Andrew Mercer he has pulled it round. I love Bisley and would never leave if I didn't need too, I try to be there every weekend and cannot imagine life without shooting there. I accept it costs money to run and that needs to come from somewhere and thats us, the shooters so next time you moan about having to pay for your shooting just think about the costs of running a place like Bisley and be very thankful we have a place like Bisley.

Wrong

The NRA  is a Charity, the National Shooting Centre is a business and needs to make a profit to survive.

Well I've got a slightly better insight into what the IPRF is, or was, meant to be about.

As a fledgling 'International' Federation I don't believe they wish to become involved in 'National' issues and would much prefer the 'Nations' to sort themselves out whilst the Nation adopts the IPRF 'Rules & Regulations' for the conduct of matches, following the IPRF 'General Precision Rifle Rules', which whilst about shooting are generally sensible if not a little convoluted. 

The problem in GB and, with the GBPRA in particular, is that, (whilst it does not say in its 'Final Draft Constitution') the IPRF website indicated in its narrative, as an Affilated Member:

'Affiliated Members are organizations that have joined IPRF with the intent of forming a democratically constituted Precision Rifle organization within their countries. Such organizations have exclusive rights as a Member Nation for 2 years while they constitute their organizations.'

The problem this may pose is that the GBPRA, as currently constituted, is unlikely to get any traction in GB as its launch and the opaque 'Executive Committee' structure did not go down well and it cannot in anyway be seen to be, or claim, to be 'representative' of the vast majority of GB PR shooters. The GBPRA nominated itself, on day one of the formation of the IPRF, as the representative of GB shooters rather sowing a seed, presenting a brief, listening to the 'community', gauging support and then making its move. In hindsight I think they can probably now see that was a mistake; it could be rectified, we wait and see.

'Monetising' PR Shooting in the GB is not going to work as PR is too small and too niche, the 'Precision Rifle Series' works in the USA as shooting sports are several orders of magnitude bigger than here. The PRS also has its problems and those stem from the 'Monetising' of it, individual sponsorship of 'Professional' shooters, high value prizes for winning and people doing and running 'PR' for a living, or, for what they can get for free from 'industry' sponsors; all of those things can and has lead to questionable 'gamey' behaviours, something that 'amateur' pursuits need like a hole in the head.

I've started a Facebook Page to gauge interest in the formation of a 'body' (club/association/federation) in GB for Precision Rifle Shooters and its got a reasonable amount of support so far but it has to be recognised that 'social media' can be an odd thing as on some pages its not clear who is 'owns and administers' (this means the ability to block posters and delete posts that don't suit their purpose) the pages, I've been up front about the page I set up as I have nothing to hide.

It will be interesting to see how things develop.

Note also, the 'Final Draft' of the Constitution which has been 'published' (if its a draft then best not to publish it) on the IPRF website does state that the IPRF is 'legally registered as a Nonprofit Organisation under the name: “International Precision Rifle Federation’; it is not registered, yet.

Chrono sold, stand still available.

IPRF Rules & Regs look very familiar and seem to have been drafted along the lines of the IPSC bureaucracy. It's clearly about 'World' control as can be seen by the many 'Mandatory' requirements shown below especially the IPRF 'approvals' needed to run a match.

Sign up, bend over and take it.

2 hours ago, Moorlander said:

Someone has just politely asked who the current committee members are ? 🍿 . 

Other than those already know about (names on IPRF website), who are they?

I see that Rob Ramsden (RSA) shared the IPRA announcement post on another Facebook Page 'Precision Rifle Competition Tips', he forgot to mention that he is the Vice-President of the IPRF.

10 minutes ago, Ronin said:

I Can’t see any of the information about 8 people and wanting to recruit a further two on the farcebook page or the other linked web page 

Here is the relevant extract from the posts:
 

Quote

There is a provisional executive committee of eight GBPRA members in place. Thank you to those shooters who have stepped forward and volunteered to be provisional executive committee members. Your help is appreciated and it is good to have a wide variety of backgrounds and experiences involved. There are currently a couple of provisional executive committee places still to fill and assistance is most welcomed. Please establish contact via: info@gbpra.co.uk

The GBPRA have attempted to provide some more clarity on their website and Facebook page: GBPRA Website Announcement and Facebook Announcement

They are now a cabal of 8 shooters that have formed a provisional 'executive committee' and they are looking for another 2 shooters to join them, if you wish to support their endeavour and are willing to volunteer your time contact them via one of the posts linked above.

Will be interesting to see who is in the cabal as that remains unpublished.

As one PR type venue has already indicated that it does not wish to be involved, and there aren't many, as I see it, only one other provider is likely to get onboard and thats those behind the GBPRA themselves.

From the face of it, as far as I can see, it is a way of imposing 'control' whilst trying to insist its only about common standards so that ‘like’ can be compared with ‘like’; I guess it's a bit like joining the EU.

18 minutes ago, The Gun Pimp said:

Do they (GBPRA) have a website or Facebook page - I'm struggling to find one.

Yes, both and all.

IPRF Webpage IPRF Facebook Page

GBPRA Webpage GBPRA Facebook Page

The GBPRA is identified as an Affiliate Member of the IPRF but as already identified they have 'exclusive rights as a Member Nation for 2 years while they constitute their organisations', so no one other than this small cabal gets a look in or can put shooters forward as 'Athletes' to represent GB in 'their' IPRF 'World Championships'. I suppose its currently their 'train set' so the can make up their own rules but it does not represent GB PR type shooters and its got off to a bad start. Better comms with the 'community' might have helped but its past that now.

On 2/1/2021 at 11:31 AM, The Gun Pimp said:

Thank you for the replies/clarification. So it's all about the GBPRA right? Is this 'body' approved/affiliated to the NRA? 

I do not believe so and, as it does not yet 'exist' as an 'democratically constituted' association with any members other than the small cabal trying to set it up, NRA affiliation, approval or recognition is someway off.

On 2/1/2021 at 11:31 AM, The Gun Pimp said:

We went through a similar 'rift' in the early days of the UKBRA - very difficult to form breakaway organisations as international shoot organisers will normally only deal with associations affiliated to their national body (the NRA).  If the GBPRA is affiliated to the NRA then surely it must hold an AGM - the place to sort things out.

Chicken and egg situation, a good idea in principle. Problem is it looks a like the GBPRA is a self appointed association that is going to be part of the IPRF (same people setting up both). The IPRF (same people as the GBPRA) say the each nation has 2 years to set up a 'democratically constituted sports association', however the GBPRA have, on the face of it already declared themselves as the GB NGB for PR. And even if they cannot be considered the GB NGB by GB shooters the way the IPRF has been set up, if they (the GBPRA) were to considered to be an Affiliate Nation (under the draft IPRF Constitution) and as stated on the IPRF the GBPRA has 'have exclusive rights as a Member Nation for 2 years while they constitute their organizations'. So, in theory' for at least two years the GBPRA can dictate as the like in the UK whilst operation under the IPRF.

Under the IPRF published information GBPRA cannot be a Full Member or Associate Member of the IPRF as they are not currently 'democratically constituted' nor are they accepted by the 'national sport shooting federation' (I'm guess in the UK that's the NRA) as the official Precision Rifle Shooting Sport.

The IPRF named GBPRA representatives have not been democratically 'elected', however, that does not mean they may not be in the future; time will tell.

The launching of the IPRF, as far as the GB element goes, has not gone down well and from what I've seen of published communications with current PR event organisers its not been received well either.

Lets hope differences can be resolved.

28 minutes ago, SchmidtP3 said:

From this thread it doesn't seem like neophytes would get a look in though. A bit off putting but I would still like to get involved.

I don't agree from its very inception the UK those putting on events have always been welcoming and those taking part always happy to help and share information, tips, skills etc.

I attended the inaugural national PR Match back in Oct 2018: INAUGURAL PRS GB UK COMPETITION

At that point the organisers of that event and similar events elsewhere in the UK were planning together how to take this type of match forward in the UK and forming a series of 'League' events. All looked good for the future, more matches, more venues and more fun.

At some point after that there was a falling out between the two 'prime movers', it quickly got nasty and abusive, especially on social media.

I've entered events from both camps since the 'fall out' and they are both well worth taking part in.

Unfortunately there appears to be a 'power/control' grab going on where one camp is moving forward to expand this type of shooting across the world, a laudable endeavour but, currently, it looks like its being poorly executed. Hopefully they can get it back on track, although I think there is some cronyism involved from what I can currently see.

 

15 minutes ago, Moorlander said:

Yes , that makes sense or trying to get funding from somewhere .

I can guarantee this has nothing to do with getting the NRA to approve or recognise anything.

5 minutes ago, TSG said:

I think this may have something to do with NRA approval and getting representation as a discipline on the NRA general council which can give access to funding for overseas shooting. Just a guess.......

 

No, its nothing to do with that.

What he said.

16 minutes ago, Moorlander said:

Shooters are described as athletes , like gymnasts or like darts players ? 

It looks like an ego trip for certain types of shooter.

3 hours ago, Ronin said:

Wonder if the amusing comments on BAIRS Instagram will start again  

Looks like it has.

3 hours ago, Ronin said:

Have the winners been posted yet for the 2022 Comp 

DISQUALIFICATION – CHEATING
12.7.1. Cheating is defined as deliberately attempting to gain an unfair advantage over other competitors in an unscrupulous manner.
12.7.2. Examples of cheating include but are not limited to: practicing or proofing/dry firing any stage, exceeding the velocity or caliber rule, changing anything on a fellow competitor’s equipment, using equipment prohibited or excluded by match or stage rules, altering or falsifying score sheets or data in electronic scoring devices, deliberately altering props or barricades prior to the target being scored or engaged to gain advantage, or using assistance provided by Stage Officials to gain an advantage.

10 minutes ago, Bangbangman said:

Finances almost certainly won't allow me to enter the world championship but I certainly would if I could.

You need to get sponsored 😂🤣😂

17 minutes ago, TJC said:

Great to see this. It's only in the UK that people whine when others get off their butts to take our community forward.

Scott Satterlee is President. If he's running the show it will be one worth attending, or at least holding judgement until we see how things progress. 

 

I do hope it works out but its already tainted following last years open range war. I just want to shoot without having to see all the shooting 'politics' going on in public.

Anyone ever heard of the Great Britain Precision Rifle Association? And if they exist who elected their published officials who are the UK contacts?

I’ve been shooting precision type rifle matches for quite a few years and have even organised PR type matches for non-profit purposes in support of the RBL, but I’ve never heard of the GBRPA.