Popsbengo

11 minutes ago, ruger7717 said:

Western Australia are banning the calibres listed in the picture, without any type of consultation!

Sucks having a Labour government in charge of your freedoms!

How on earth is that democratic?

Having a Labour Government ?  So what's your point ?

3 hours ago, Re-Pete said:

And who might have blown up Nordstream 2........

https://www.medialens.org/2023/a-beautiful-outpouring-of-rage-the-observer-the-great-peace-march-and-nord-stream/

Pete

Reads like a conspiracy theory;  no actual evidence just hyperventilated, non-objective rant against 'the man'

3 hours ago, Adam SInfield said:

Sorry, didn’t want to sound argumentative. The point I was making was simply the assertion one must open an ‘approved range’ or ‘range’ to allow target shooting is not correct as this has no definition in law. There are no official bodies that will certify a ‘range’ anymore as the NRA have also stopped. They may provide guidance if you push, but will not certify any piece of land.

Insurance is another matter, but having recently spoken to several, they do not ask for any form of certification. Again, others may ask but I haven’t spoken to any that do. Yes, should the worst happen they may try and argue negligence invalidating the policy, but that’s a very high threshold - so as with all policies, the devil is in the detail (I.E. the terms and conditions). In fact, the NRA have confirmed to me that my personal NRA cover through membership covers me for shooting targets over land - which I asked for specifically for, what I believe the OP was asking for, for PRS shooting at farms etc. 

I have been running PRS matches at a local farm, and both the relevant police force and the NRA have confirmed all is well in doing so - and under our club insurance through the NRA - so long as participants have target conditions based on the membership of a HO approved club.

I am very surprised you are operating as you state. Where's the safety design template? How do you control the safety area?  You have risk assessments ?

The advice you say you have received is contrary to the written HO advisory you cited.  I'm very surprised you have NRA approval in principle, setting up a shoot "on a field" given their published position.

The NRA have recently published their Range Design Handbook,  within the first pages they state:

"The NRA is a charity whose objectives include promoting the efficiency of the armed forces through combined military and civilian marksmanship activities. The NRA has no legislative power to regulate range design or operation. It has published this Handbook in order to assist civilian range operators in applying best practice to the operation of civilian rifle ranges, as part of pursuing its charitable objectives. Commercial advice on the design of specific ranges, as well as range inspection services, are available from National Shooting Centre Limited, the wholly-owned commercial subsidiary of the NRA."

While agreeing that the NRA don't have legislative power they do represent best practice and any deviation from that will be very difficult to explain should the men & women in wigs get involved following an incident.

2 hours ago, Adam SInfield said:

Apologies but there is a bit of misinformation here. There is no legal definition of a ‘range’. It is up to the landowner/operator to determine if safe to use, and then, there must be insurance (which can be commercial for all users or individual) in the case of any loss.

This has been confirmed to me by my FEO, who had guidance from the Home Office, and is confirmed in HO Circular 031/2006 (available at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/firearms) following the refusal of both the MoD and NRA to certify ‘ranges’.

The position is therefore that you need target conditions (as 100 rounds at steels is hardly “zeroing or practice” for quarry) on land that is deemed safe by the operator, complies with any planning law (which often the 28 day rule applies) and you (as the FAC holder) are content there is adequate insurance in place for the activity (you or the ground).

What is the misinformation you refer to?  Your own I would suggest.

I quote from the HO circular:  "The responsibility will now be placed more firmly on range owners/operators to ensure that their range is constructed and maintained safely. Failure to do so will leave them liable to sanctions under a range of legislation, such as the Occupiers’ Liability Act 1957, the Occupiers’ Liability (Scotland) Act 1960 and the Health & Safety at Work Act 1974. See Annex A for further details. The criteria for club approval and affected certificate conditions have been revised to remove references to Ministry of Defence safety certificates (see Annex B)."

To say "It is up to the landowner/operator to determine if safe to use.."  is correct but there's an assumption the operator has set up the range to meet standards and cite the NRA/NSRA standards.

It's yet to be tested in law but I think any operator that doesn't have a properly certified range (ie built to a recognised standard) is asking for trouble should issues arise and most importantly their insurance company will certainly kick off should a serious claim be brought.

An individual's personal insurance is not adequate - the range must be insured.  If in doubt try asking your insurance provider.

Planning is not an issue for the shooters - it's likely any ad-hoc range will incur noise abatement pressure from Planning irrespective of the 28 day rule.

6 minutes ago, Lewiscooke said:

Thanks for the info. I did assume my insurance didn't cover anything but me, but never hurts to ask. I'm hopefully going to the SIS next month, and have already asked Helen the question about whether I'm covered or not. 

Sensible to ask and not assume.  I occasionally shoot at Esk. T4 with Marc & Helen  and I've actually met the chap that assessed their range.

You can shoot on a range that has adequate insurance.  Your personal insurance is not relevant to that aspect, it covers you but not the range.  Shooting over land that is not a proper range is not covered by your FAC conditions.

Home Office approved is relevant to permission for clubs to train others and is not limiting in the sense you ask your question.

If you attend an event "over land" it must be a field firing range properly set up and insured not just a field with "shooting over" permissions.

For example, Eskdalemuir is a field firing range with a certificate and insurance organised by Gardners Guns.

But do ask your FEO with specific examples.

11 minutes ago, ds1 said:

Beethoven and metal I find inspiring. One day my double-taps maybe as good as this 16 year old girl’s tapping but I seriously doubt it. 
 

 

absolutely incredible skill but I wouldn't want to ever listen to that again.  No heart or soul just technical brilliance.

While I appreciate the musical skill in jazz, it does nothing for me.  I'll leave "extreme metal" thanks, not really music just sonic torture.

At the moment I'm listening to Peter Green's early Fleetwood Mac (pre Christine Perfect/McVie) and there's only one British blues band that comes close - John Mayall's Blues Breakers with Eric Clapton and occasionally Peter Green on lead ('The Super-Natural'; one of the greatest guitar tracks ever).

BB King, Duane Allman, Steve Ray-Vaughn, early Santana - I guess I'm a sucker for electric blues.  Oh, and of course the greatest of all time - Jimi

Sold 

Thanks to all for enquiring

I have a Magnetospeed Sporter chronograph surplus to needs now I have a Labradar.

It's 100% complete, fully functioning and hardly used.  In perfect condition.

These are £225 on line.

£155 with post included to mainland UK   SOLD

1 hour ago, firedoc said:

Me and the wife both renewed our RCO qualifications this week. Did the RSO test followed by the RCO one, no problems providing you read the manuals first. Appears we have two cards, one for RSO and another for RCO 

Yes, seems a bit of a waste as RCO must incorporate RSO.  I also completed both yesterday and passed both

15 minutes ago, martin_b said:

Thats interesting.. On the RCO course I did ( Oct 22) the first thing we were told was to relax, you're all RSO's so you've done the hard bit.

(given the option I would take a classroom test over on-line any day!) 

I guess my experience meant I could pretty much fly through the RSO as it's meat and drink to any Range Officer however for the RCO I had to mine answers from the handbook as some questions were subtly different and on the face of it had two or more seemingly reasonable choices - just not necessarily the precise book answers required.

I've just finished doing both on-line assessments,  the questions were quite different (and RCO was hard!)

1 hour ago, phaedra1106uk said:

My point is that the NRA have added an addional cost by requiring a qualified RCO to also have the RSO qualification, there's no need for it as it adds nothing to the RCO qualification.

 

 

It does make sense to me as a large percentage of clubs do not use military ranges or officiate at Bisley.  The RSO course is much more 'approachable' than the RCO training and probably quite a relief to some candidates.  The RCO course is a "bolt on" to the RSO and it does make more sense when seen in the round.

Roy W has hit the nail on the head above - it's not an unreasonable cost.

1 hour ago, phaedra1106uk said:

Plus the addional £10 for the RCO test so £63

Just had our first RCO do the RSO test, £53 + £9.50 for a laminated badge!!!!!!

I was quoting NRA member rates.  £48 RSO + £5 RCO

Not sure what the problem is?  I don't think it's extortionate at all.   Laminated badge is an option not a requirement

11 hours ago, phaedra1106uk said:

......

 

Obviously this is the NRA making the world safer and not just a money grabbing exercise to get an extra £53 out of each RCO on top of the usual £10 charge for the RCO test.

Bloody disgrace.

The RCO on-line renewal was £46 (RCO renewed at our club last October).  It would appear the new fees are £53 so that's plus £7 if I understand the new structure.

Just now, Re-Pete said:

Me too.....it would be interesting to know how many shooters bother to read it and give feedback.

We're frequently hearing people bitching about firearms office staff on these forums, but I have to say, the Winchester crew have been exemplary for the 15 years we've known them.

Pete

Staffs have also been pretty good  - but recently v. slow.  They have introduced a new process and time will tell.

Bitching is easy;  actual constructive engagement takes effort 🤔

3 hours ago, Re-Pete said:

Thanks for that. It says it all, almost... I think it would be also useful if the FEO's had actual hands-on experience of shooting, and the associated firearms nomenclature as part of their training.

(Years ago, we experienced some confusion about additional user-swappable barrels.....)

Pete

Funny you say that..  It's sort of what I suggested in my feedback along with proper engagement with clubs and standardised processes.

This may be of interest especially to RFD and Club officers.

https://www.college.police.uk/article/firearms-licensing-guidance-have-your-say?fbclid=IwAR1Pv3xBkBtRUfcVJNiBI8zgtQFHP9kEBevxWbbyiidCVPnrQ-yd25wJCoY

26 minutes ago, chaz said:

Just a quick question folks.

As above, Would it be ok to put a few drops of car wax, or any other polish (Brasso?) into walnut media when using my dry tumbler?

I've seen it being done on You-Tube, and heard people say they do. But I'd like a few opinions before I think of doing it.

So some constructive opinions, Or better still experiences would be appreciated. 

My concerns are, getting wax in the case, so creating more work by then having to clean them in my Ultrasonic....

Cheers.

Chaz. 

I use a tiny amount of jewellers rouge powder, it brings the brass up very nicely.  I mean tiny too - quarter of a teaspoon max in a full Lyman tumbler.  It will naturally distribute around the walnut media and turn it a red shade.

If you don't know, jewellers rouge is super-fine ground iron oxide (rust) used for polishing precious metals and glass

Most important though:   clean the necks inside prior to loading  - I use a wet cotton bud.

Personally I can't see any reason to use wax and would think it detrimental

Bullet derived from French boulle  meaning a small ball

Heads, something to take a dump in at sea

I can't see NRA enforcing a rule that only their hand-loading training would be acceptable anymore than they limit SCC certification to those receiving direct NRA training.

Clubs train and endorse an application for SCC in particular categories, and the NRA issue cards on that premise.  Why should reloading be any different ?  What it does mean is club committees having to make a judgement as to whether their members are competent hand-loaders and possibly to offer training - and that's a potential minefield of having credentials to train others.

The problem I see is that poor skills with a firearm can be evident to supervising range officers, training coaches etc. and that can be felt with.  That's not the case with hand-loaded ammo, it's potentially a hidden hazard only evident in failure - hopefully not catastrophic failure.

I understand that 2024 is the date for implementation so I expect NRA policy before then.

Lovely job indeed for a fine watch.  Your son should be proud to have it.

I wear my Rolex Explorer ii every day and serviced in Marple by Precision Watch Services (twice in 20yrs).  Both times came back 'like new'.  A good price too, £500 including a replacement winding mechanism (worn out).

1 hour ago, RobinC said:

.....

As I said, a lot of BS in this game!

Have Fun

Robin

BS abounds no doubt.  Having annealed and not annealed I think I'll stick with doing it after four reloads, especially with .338 brass that costs ££££,  not lost a case to cracks yet and the occasional 1 moa group at 1 mile does me fine.

I also enjoy the reloading process almost as much as shooting

3 minutes ago, bolte said:

Mistakes get made regardless of teaching and training. Your post is a good example.

True, but training should reduce the likelihood.  I've come across a few woefully ignorant chaps who don't understand the basics, just muddle through until they make the (hopefully not) fatal error.