Popsbengo

4 hours ago, Dellboy said:

i totally agree with your first paragraph , while i was on the comitee of a local club  I tried to introduce a record keeping form for hand loaders and bought in a chronograph for club use . It got done twice when visiting the range  after which they knew better . They will be handing out scc cards with the update as the remaining comitee members hand load .

I think we must be lucky at our club,  our members that load for long ranges (+600)  are few in number and sensible.  Interestingly we allow down-loading for cowboy loads and that brings a whole set of different risks such as double charging and flash-over over pressure spikes (more talked of in theory than observed with nitro it must be said).

28 minutes ago, Re-Pete said:

I've heard tales of competition shooters beating their bolts open, and throwing the case away after taking each shot.....

Competition brings out the best and worst in our natures !   It also seems to override a healthy wish to avoid killing oneself  😟

According to news, the USA have placed a ban on all overseas sales of firearms and ammunition for 90 days:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-halts-exports-most-civilian-firearms-90-days-2023-10-27/

2 hours ago, RobinC said:

.......

They state it will not apply to those who just use handloaded ammo, but don't load it, it only applies to the loader, not sure I agree?

Its a start, but looks more like a rear end covering exercise, and won't stop the deliberate overload offenders.

Have Fun

Robin

Yes, I was surprised by the clause to permit handholds loaded by another.  I wonder why when NRA advice is personal insurance cover may be compromised (Winter 2007 Journal).  Well worth reading, it's on the NRA website.

Otherwise a sensible policy providing club's don't just hand out SCC like sweeties - as I've observed by some.  We ensure a solid paper-trail of proven skill and underpinning knowledge to every SCC issued by our club.

you might want to edit your unfortunate title?

On 10/16/2023 at 8:00 PM, Roy W said:

This sounds like it could have an impact on PRS type events then?

I don't do PRS myself but would it be practical / cost-effective to build a containment butts/ canopy etc to capture bullets for stand-alone targets?

I would think the likes of Eskdalemuir ranges to also be a challenge to manage lead capture & recovery.

I also wonder if civvies using MoD field firing ranges will continue to be permitted ?  

The HSE have released their "opinion" document regarding lead in shot and bullets.

https://nra.org.uk/hse-publish-proposals-for-restrictions-on-lead-ammunition/

https://nra.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Lead-in-Ammunition-Restriction-Opinion-Document-Draft-SEA-Opinion.pdf

On first reading it seems that for rifle shooting, provided controls can be made for containing and removing lead from an outdoor range it can be 'business as usual'.  It's proposed that there's formal registration of ranges required with some sort of audit/enforcement protocol.   What this could mean for field firing ranges with no practical method of containment and removal remains concerning.   The use of lead shot for shotguns is coming to an end for sure.  Indoor ranges appear to be outside of the scope of the report for some reason not explained.

Of course, as yet it's a proposal and will require legislation to implement.

hover over their icon/name and click 'message'

1 hour ago, Re-Pete said:

....

And I was told by a successful competitive shooter 9 or 10 years ago that consistent neck tension has more effect on group size than weighing powder to a tenth of a grain......

Pete

I'd agree with that from my own tests so I do both.   My Lapua brass lasts until the primer pockets are too slack, usually 12-15 uses for LRP brass - I run quite hot but not "F Class silly".  Not got to a problem yet with 6.5CM SRP or Lap Mag.

1 hour ago, Ralpharama said:

How important is neck tension? And how important to it is annealing?

My budget rotary gas fired annealer really isn't especially precise and from time to time the cases stop turning and so aren't accurately annealed.

There seems to be lots of opinions on YouTube, but as my interest in extra long range increases so I realise that i really need to make my ammo as good as it can be.

As far as I can see the only annealer that is super accurate is the AMP, but this is eye wateringly expensive.

Thoughts? 

Consistent neck tension seems to be the issue rather than higher or lower tension settings.  I've experimented with different bushings/mandrel expanders and have settled on .002" under calibre for .308, 6.5CM & .338LM.  Using an in-line bullet seater with an arbour press one can really tell how consistent the necks are.  It's important to ensure the inside of the neck is clean and smooth - lube is a matter of opinion, I use graphite dry-lube on untreated bullets.

A problem with low neck tension is bullet movement in the case due to knocks and also the risk of pulling a bullet out of the case if unloading a live round - powder everywhere...

I have read that gentle taper crimping can work (Andrew from Montana mentioned on here I think?)

I use molten-salt annealing and it's extremely repeatable, much more so than gas flame.  I would expect an induction heater to be excellent too, but it's either make one (loads of advice on line) or save your pennies up!  I used to maintain 60kW RF induction heaters back in the day for RR, bit too much for a brass case 😁

32 minutes ago, Deserttech Europe said:

check these out

 

Search for a wristwatch (chrono24.co.uk)

useful, I didn't realise how prices had changed.  Just upped the insurance value of my Rolex !  It's now three times what I paid for it new in 2023

36 minutes ago, Ralpharama said:

I had a chat with Matt at HPS and have ordered a new barrel for my Sabatti. Apparently with a 1 in 8 twist barrel with an extra couple of inches and I can shoot heavier projectiles and achieve my goal 😃

It's not massively cheap, but much cheaper than entering the .338 route with all the huge expenses incurred there.

Good luck with your quest for the mile !

I have regularly shot out to a mile at Eskdalemuir with .338LM.   The bullet is all important;  for example Lapua Scenar 250gr launched at 3000fps from my 32" barrel are transonic and all over the place by 1600yds.   The Scenar 300gr on the other hand leaves the muzzle at 2830fps but retains accuracy at the mile.   Hornady 285ELD-M also pretty good in my rifle.  I have Berger 300gr which I have high hopes for but got around to development yet.

I'd recommend .338LM but it is very expensive.  However, hitting the 1moa target (18" gong) at a mile three times in a row is quite a reward though 😁

12 minutes ago, Re-Pete said:

I scored this on ebay a while back. I think it's genuine. The innards look kosher, and it gains around 2 seconds a week, so they probably are.

Best of all, it's a sensible diameter and thickness.

Pete

Pete

 

Dangerously modern gizmo - where's the spring ?  

a thermometer and barometer  - both built into my Kestrel instrument (a basic 'orange' one).

Takes two seconds to add the data to my ballistic app (I use Shooter).  I use No1 finger and eye interface utilising some grey-matter software.

If conditions change my Spidey Senses alert the above interface and Bob's yer mother's brother

Of course none of the above cost much so it's bound to be crap, oh dear.....

😁

50 minutes ago, No i deer said:

Show me these shims etc pops 👍

as requested;  stainless steel shim stock, snipped from sheets I have for general engineering.  I know some shooting company or other sells shims in a pack for the same task - only at muggins money 

LE Wilson dies are super quality.  I use a their F/L bushing and their in-line seating die with my arbour press.  I'm not sure that the micrometer is necessary unless you regularly adjust sizes, just a little more faff to home in on the desired setting.  If I'm doing development I use shims in 0.001" increments, cheap as chips and dead accurate

1 hour ago, Re-Pete said:

I had a look at that....what's the point of the "crush control" ? An added complication to justify a higher price?

Surely all that's needed is to be able to feel when the rim of the primer cup hits the bottom of the pocket.

At that point, the anvil is, by design, at the optimum position to allow the percussion of the firing pin denting the cup to ignite the charge.

Squeeze any harder when priming, and you'll likely distort the cup, forcing the anvil to push gently through the compound and touch the inside surface of the cup, thus killing the primer........or it'll go bang.

Pete

Bryan Litz has some interesting thoughts on primer insertion force etc.  He says it's a 5th order variable and not worth consideration unless so many other factors are sorted.  They certainly don't bother when testing at Applied Ballistics Lab.    F-Class John did some tests (in his words, not very scientific) and found increasing crush made grouping worse.  Me, I think quality brass with uniformed pocket depth and an RCBS bench primer sets all my primers the same finished depth (ok, from the head not the rim, I know) works well enough to be a non-issue.

34 minutes ago, Re-Pete said:

This:

https://www.reloading.co.uk/lee-autobenchprime.html

This is the best I found for ease and speed of use..............of course, it's a Lee, so the reloading cognoscenti might roll their eyes.....

Pete

 

How very dare you compare a precision tool at £850 to one at £32 !   Next you'll be saying that a funnel for ££££ is not worth it !!     😂😂

Personally I use an RCBS bench primer bought second hand, it works just fine with plenty of feel.

5 hours ago, Laurie said:

 

All LR primers have same thickness cups (0.027"). The cup differences only apply to SR and the reasons are historic, weak-cup models such as the CCI-400 and Rem 6 1/2 originally intended for the low-pressure .22 Hornet, .218 Bee and similar in less affluent times when many rifles chambered for such cartridges used the small centrefire Martini actions, modified rimfires etc.

Whilst there is no apparent direct relationship between the name and explosive pellet formulation in the SRs, some LRMs have very different ingredients from the standard version (eg Fed 215 vs 210) and are often far more 'aggressive' (greater brisance) to handle very large powders charges, cope with extreme cold conditions, consistently ignite large charges of some ball powder grades.

I wonder if there's any difference in steel grades between standard and magnum cups ?

The Grauniad - par for the course I'm afraid.

Having looked into this subject further and discussing with some knowledgable people it would seem this whole NRA "300g primers" is not founded on solid ground - as Roy W suggested above

7 hours ago, Roy W said:

Then those quantities apply only to Separation distances. i.e. Separation distances don't apply until you exceed those limits.

The total 15KG is the quantity you can hold without a licence.

 

 

I agree that seems to be the correct interpretation but the NRA training still refers to 300g of primers.  I guess until it's tested in the courts it will remain a matter of opinion.

Just now, Roy W said:

Well that's conflicting then

 

Maybe, I report what's in.

Guidance for Firearms Users and

Associated Trades.

ISSUE 1

January 2020

I may have interpreted incorrectly, however, NRA Handloading training notes also mention 300g of percussion caps as part of the 15Kg NEQ. (Lesson 1 Slide 7)

I'd be happy to be corrected as I agree the wording seems to conflict as you say.

4 minutes ago, Roy W said:

Where did you find the reference to 300g of primer explosive?

Sect 7 covers quantities you can hold without a storage licence.

This just says 15KG of Ammo & Primers combined.

Authorisation to store explosives

7.—(1) Subject to paragraph (2), no person may store explosives unless that person holds a licence for their storage and complies with the conditions of that licence.

(2) Paragraph (1) does not apply to—

(a)the storage of one or more of the following—

(i)no more than 10 kilograms of shooters’ powder;

(ii)no more than 5 kilograms of—

(aa)shooters’ powder; or

(bb)any hazard type 3 or 4 explosive, or desensitised explosive, which is not a relevant explosive, or a combination of hazard type 3 or 4 explosives, or desensitised explosives, which are not relevant explosives; or

(cc)a combination of shooters’ powder and any hazard type 3 or 4 explosives, or desensitised explosives, which are not relevant explosives;

(iii)no more than 15 kilograms of percussion caps or small arms ammunition or a mixture of them;   (My Bold)

It's in the code of practice document produced by the various shooting organisations and HSE.  "Explosives Rev2" on the HSE website