brown dog

My mind's eye is visualising a moveable sleeve weight on the moderator body as a .22 option(?) Perhaps a sort of choke tube slipped on and made to grip, with a threaded weight around it (?) Another option would be a peel washer between mod and muzzle?

Makes sense 👍

Al, I'm confused as to what's guiding your thinking on the weight requirement? You mentioned that you reduced the EC's weight by 40% (presumably the maker thought 100% was the right weight?!) and, in greater contrast, the .22 pics show things the size of flower pots wrapped in lead. Is everyone designing these things based on strongly held feelings in their water, or is there decent data? What's the right weight?

I happy with all the theories - just rather bizarre that the tuning mechanism seems unknown and nearer alchemy than physics. Muzzle position: I'm quite struck that one of the en vogue tuners (EC?) is behind the muzzle. Difficult to say where is right if no one actually knows what's happening! 😂😊 Machine rests for .22? Looking at Lapua tgts, from a quick Google, they don't strike me as any different to the Eley.

I'm not sure I understand the thinking behind introducing other variables - then the test isn't testing the ammo alone; it's testing the other variables too - and it wouldn't be possible to split the effectors out. 🤔 ...anyway... we all 'get' that the tuners affect some aspect of barrel vibration. But no one is quite sure how barrels move - multiple vibration modes happening simultaneously... and the unanswered prize question is what does the tuner actually do? What's the primary effect delivering accuracy: Is it changing frequency of a harmonic? Moving nodes? Or just a damping effect? And... how does that answer chime with positioning relative to the muzzle? Beyond or behind?

😂 yes!

Just had a look at that too. The 50m machine rest Tenex targets tell us a lot with regard to our other chats about the realities of .22!

Thanks - good links; surprised to see how little is known rather than 'assumed'. Interesting that both articles seem to agree that the tuner's effect on line of departure is the dominant effect (as opposed to the velocity of the muzzle movement itself). Still none the clearer where the tuner best sits or why - empirically, most seem to have the mass forward of the muzzle, but some (EC and Kolbe's experimental mass) are behind.

I had a Google to try and find some proper theory on what these tuners are doing- couldn't find anything other than mumbo jumbo by calfee - no doubt they work, but I'm not sure I understand precisely what effect they have on the harmonics.

I think the limbsaver is a damper, rather than a tuner (?)

I've had the same thought myself. I 'spose the limiting factor is how far it has to be moved and whether there's sufficient thread left for it to be solid and safe.

Yup it's NBC tape, but the whole world now seems to call it sniper tape

If they're using what many of us have been using for the last couple of decades; it's sniper tape by Scapa. Just looked, it's on ebay And leaves very little residue.

A useful aide memoire: https://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/03/22/rifle-screw-torque-settings-specifications/

Downsize the pics?

Genuine question: Who does the return of post turnaround on a s/h vortex in UK?

If, for the sake of argument, doing minimal QC means you can knock out £900 scopes for £40 in some polluted valley, you can afford to replace each one five times and still be in profit..10 times and still break even; .and if you have worked out the average replacement rate is, say, 1.2, it's a workable high-profit business model.

Why not upload them? Could you tell me what the prob is, you're the 3rd person to not upload pics - it should be really simple, is there a problem with the board?

Exactly that; you buy it to have it on the road , not in the garage undergoing stellar warranty work. Lost day on the range, on the hill, wherever. If the things are unreliable, and they're more likely to require warranty work than other brands, there's a monster inconvenience factor

No... a kia is reliable, so it's a duff analogy. You need to think of an unreliable car with a massive warranty. Could only think of Trabants...

I think Kia are so reliable they don't really need the warranty ... a bling Trabant with a 7 year warranty?

Perhaps - I'm a mRad person, I think it would depend on price. By PM?

The service is universally well reported, but the theme seems to be that many will need it - almost the opposite of 6 sigma, and pumping stuff out accepting warranty hits as a cost trade off. A point was made, that a gold-plated warranty is great, but on, say a car, you buy it to have it on the road , not in the garage undergoing stellar warranty work. So, trying to shape a thread about 'how many have had faults meaning they had to use it?' (rather than I lost a bit and it was replaced)

Trawling various scope reviews at the mo, one enduring theme seems to be that the Vortex warranty is great; but that many buyers seem to need to use it. Is that borne out by users here (are there any?)? Who here owns a Vortex? Has it required warranty work or replacement, or been fine?

Yup - preorder too.