Scope Rail

[Orka Akinse]

Gents

 

At Bisley today working out my balastic charts I found I did not have enough vertical elevation in my set up [sAKO MkIV 6.5x55 with a S&B Hunter 3-12x50 scope] to accomodate moving back beyond 400yds

 

I now need a picatinny scope rail but whats it to be? I want to go back as far as I can within my capabilitys and my rig [that is beyond the current 400yds] but is 10MOA enough and is 20MOA too much [i.e. with that scope could I still zero with a 20MOA rail?] The maths of the process do not come easy to me although I'm not that bad to realise a 0MOA rail is not going to do anything to help me in this situation.

 

Urgent advice please as I want to call the supplier 1st thing in the morning to place my order.

 

ATB & Thanks

 

OA

[LONG RANGE CAPT]

OA,

 

Go for the 20 MOA rail, I have fitted them to both Rem 700's and have them on my 7.62 AE and 338. LM.

 

They will give youy that extra flexibility. I have a 3-12 x 50 SB on the 7.62 AE and have no problems zeroing in at 100 yds.

 

Kind Regards

 

Rob

[brown dog]

Rob,

 

Are you describing 20MOA success with PM2s?

 

OA has the 30mm tubed 3-12 - will it have enough 'up' travel to get zeroed on a 20 MOA rail?

[Ronin]

Assuming a 100 yard zero (and using a 155 grain example at a modest 2500 fps) you need just over 51 MOA to get to 1000 yards, use a 139 scenar travelling at 2600 will need circa 33 MOA .....

 

 

I would opt for the 20 MOA rail, which will enable you to bring the ret down to a more centred position (as it sounds like its towards the end of ajustment in vertical plane)

 

 

If you go for a more inclined rail - say 30 MOA you may have issues with obtaining a base zero of 100 yds...I am not sure what the total ajustment is available with the zenith or similar S&B's

 

 

Bear in mind the standard S&B are not really meant for dialling in, you may get "lost" in the ajustments.

 

 

I have the same scope on my 25-06 (with 20 MOA rail) and use holdover for extended shots - although if your target shooting this may not give you the required POI you need for scoring....

[ejg223]

Seen Sakos and Tikkas with crooked optilocks that had problems to zero at 100 with a 3-12 S&B.

How far off scope center are you at 100yds/m?

I've adjusted optilocks a few times and one can adjust 20MOA into them too, without going rail.

 

Changing to a 20MOA rail worked well on my sako too.

 

edi

[brown dog]

I've adjusted optilocks a few times and one can adjust 20MOA into them too, without going rail.

 

edi,

 

how's that done? new plastic inserts?

[terryh]

OA,

 

Simple check to see if your scope will still zero with a 20min rail, if your scope is currently zeroed at 100 yards, see how many minutes of 'down' is still avaialable, if it's past 20 minutes then you should still be able to Zero.

 

You might want to check though how close to bottoming out on the 'down' you are. You would not want to be right at the limit, might not be the best optically looking down the edge of your lenses - so to speak.

 

Hope this makes sense?

 

brgds Terry

[brown dog]

Simple check to see if your scope will still zero with a 20min rail, if your scope is currently zeroed at 100 yards, see how many minutes of 'down' is still avaialable, if it's past 20 minutes then you should still be able to Zero.

Blindingly obvious now that you've said it!

 

PS; just worked it out; 20MOA of 'down'

 

- that's 58 x 0.1mrad clicks down in new money.

[ejg223]

edi,

 

how's that done? new plastic inserts?

 

Separate top and bottom mount via allen screw below. On front mount......

And mill or flatbed grind the required ammount off the bottom bit.

Optilocks are great for that because the plastic bits euqal out as we know.

edi

[22/250 foxer]

you could send the optiloc bases to chris - if your unsure. as i think he has done a couple for people that need more moa with out buying a rail

 

or any of the gunsmiths on here are more then capable of the job

[Orka Akinse]

Gents

 

As always you never fail to impress and many thanks for the time you have spent replying.

 

Update: Spoke to a very nice chap at Third Eye Tactical and as I understand it, they do not manufacture rails for the SAKO apart from the TRG range. My action would require drilling and tapping to have a rail fitted or I could go the flatbed or milling of 15 - 20 thou off the front base route as eddie describes in his post but that may still not leave enough "up" or "down" travel needed to reach out to the longer ranges with the S&B Pro Hunter scope.

 

Distilling it down, its a new scope

 

Anyone got a S&B PMII or Hensoldt they would consider parting to a charity case such as I???

 

Any other views / comments advice etc would not be wasted on me.

 

Best wishes

 

OA

[brown dog]

Any other views / comments advice etc would not be wasted on me.

 

I'd recommend the following as 'must haves' for your next scope:

 

All metric -metric turrets and metric ret

Side parallax

and, if you want the reticle to measure correctly at any magnification setting, First Focal Plane.

 

I'd also say that you should try and find something finer than the standard S&B mil ret - I think you'll find it a smidge too fat for the dual use (target and field) that you're after.

[1967spud]

At my local shooting ground we can shoot out to 1200 yards but with normal optilocks i cant get enough elevation, i am about 12 moa short i did think about going down the rail method or machined front base mthoed as well. Another option is a shim, i couldnt find anybody local to me to fit a rail to my sako. i have a very good mate who has been an engineer for many a year 40+ and he suggested a brass shim. He said brass as it was easy to wrok and very forgiving on other metals any way to cut a long story short i got exactly 20 moa with this method using a sliver of brass exactly 28 thou 22 swg in thickness.

Also as an added bonus we havent butchered the optilocks either.

[1967spud]

meant to slao say that i can still acheive a 100 yard zero, i recon i might be able to possibly get out to 1500 yards now, but to date i havent tested this claim

[Orka Akinse]

BD as always; very many thanks. Your advice is forming the basis of my new scope spec. You wouldn't have anything "suitable" knocking about would you? Can you recommend a suitable reticle to meet my needs too?

 

Spud, just out of interest, what rifle are you using with the shim and bases? I assume the shim is under the rear mount?

[1967spud]

sako 75 6.5-284 shim is indeed under rear mount, when we dome it we did several pressure tests although ad hoc no extra pressure signs were observed through the rings or scope its self

 

i have dialled the scope out to 1200 mainy a time and back to a 100 yard zero and to date using this shim method have not had to re zero at all

 

 

 

from what i have learnt about shimming its a win win for me

 

 

 

BUT if a rail was fitted i..e. to a remmy its a better option , more user freindley

 

 

 

if you want send me your rear mount and ill get a shim cut to size, and better still you still have an original mount with the shim option

[terryh]

Orka,

 

If you are looking for aood PM2 then there are a couple of these at my local dealer (Simpsons), a 4-16x50 Mildot for about £1050 and a mint (read 4 weeks old) 5-25 P4F for about £1750 which some dork traded in for a Nightforce after using if for a couple of weeks, apparentyl his mates told him FFP was no good

 

T

[brown dog]

a mint (read 4 weeks old) 5-25 P4F for about £1750 which some dork traded in for a Nightforce after using if for a couple of weeks, apparentyl his mates told him FFP was no good

 

OA,

 

That's fate sending you a message! Get on the phone tomorrow!

[Orka Akinse]

Terry pm me the number if your still online.

 

Cheers

 

OA