Guest Tiff Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 I've been thinking about a bigger rifle for a time now. I'll probably only shoot it 4 or so times a year, but it would be fun to shoot! So what options are there, apart from the "boring Browning". With Lulworth Cove complex hopefully shortly becoming available to civvies, upper caliber restrictions of 13,000 ft;lbs are not such an issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Just looking through some old Target Sports magazines and come across an article for the .408 Cheytac, looks interesting! Theres some more information on the Precision Rifle site if your interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 There was a program on future weapons on SKY this week that featured the 408 Cheytac. Huge rifle, went through the steel target at around 1500 yards from memory but it may have been further. Took a guy 20 mins on a quad to retrieve the target. Guy said it shot flatter than the 50 BMG. Not your average rabbit/fox gun for sure. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrek Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 havent heard much about it but it all the yanks seem to be raving on about the 338-30 Lapua wildcat, no bigger bullet than say a 300 win mag, just more punch and a funky looking brass case to go with the collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tiff Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 A .408 or .375 CheyTac would certainly be good, nearly brought the one featured on the Precision Rifles website...£4,000 with a .338 barrel as well. However I'm sure it could be done for alot less if you don't need all the go faster bits or spare .338 barrel, so let it go. To be honest I'm thinking of something a bit bigger, a different rifle not too close to what I already have... Please keep ideas coming. Shrek: My .30-338 Lapua is already in the pipeline, just sorting the reamer/die specs at the moment...Should make a handy field rifle, with a reasonable punch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrek Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Nice going Tiff, will like to hear how you get on with it and how it performs! May even need to get myself down country one of these days to see some of these calibers in action! My FLO was round today, interrogating me wanting to know why i wanted a 243 on top of the one i shared with my father???? So to throw a spanner in the works i said i was thinking in the future of a 6.5x47 Lapua, he looked at my strangely and asked what on earth is that!???? what can i say.............oh dear!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oly Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 The .408 Cheytac certainly sounds interesting! http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9DTLsgCH0ys&...feature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 No question: 416 Barrett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tiff Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 No question: 416 Barrett. Hadn't thought of that. Is it like the smaller steyr calibers and to some extent the .408....brass/bullets are impossible to get hold of? Whats it's based on? As for the .408 these links give a bit more info on it. As seen/used in the film 'Shooter'.... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DpRHdjBj5ZI&...feature=related http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=H2zC9r7IMuA&...feature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratwhiskers Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 eargesplitten loudenboomer.... just copy and paste into google By no means the most useful round out there....... but hey, why not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 20mm thats bigger than the 50 cal. Prepare to have dislocated shoulder and perforated ear drum though Me, I am building a 375 or 408 CT on a BArnard CT action in a Mcree stock........ Thats the next project anyway although this may change to 416 Steyr,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tiff Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 .22 eargesplitten loudenboomer - Now that would be funny to get printed on your FAC - wouldn't be surprised if the police tried to charge you for wasting their time if you asked for it in April......Interesting round .22-378 yet a bit pointless considering a 'little' 22 Midlestead can beat it! Ronin - Have you got any more info on the Steyr? I seem to be able to find very little about bullet/brass availability. Same goes for the CheyTac. I like the idea of them in principle (possibly sell the .338 for one), particularly the .375, but apart form the new sirrea 350grain, whats available? As for a 20mm, it is kind of tempting...Vulcan brass can be had for £1 a piece, and powder can be sourced relatively cheaply, but bullet selection is very poor outside of Sec 5 stuff! Plus a dislocated shoulder doesn't appeal again! Cheers for the ideas so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratwhiskers Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Tiff. l didn't say it couldn't be beaten, but it can still be pronounced while drunk l'll ask my FLO what he thinks and get back to you with the answer sometime... ATB. Ratty. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Tiff as Pat has said there are really two platforms (and a few others I will come to) for a repeater using the CT case, 1 - CT M200 - as seen in the film "shooter" (if ever a good book was ruined by a film it was this one) 2 - EDM WIndrunner The Windrunner I think was first developed when the guys from EDM and CT were a single company, afetr a fall out and some nasty litigation two spararate companies formed. But if you look closely at both rifles, they show remarkable similarities to each other ( a bit like the AI AW and Badger M2008 action) The Windrunner is made by EDM in house and a system will set you back about $8000 The M200 action and barrel are made by (or were made by) Lawton and a package including scope, ABC computer, case atc will set you back double if not more -($16000 +) The EDM has the ability to switch barrels pretty easily - think this doesnt apply to the CTM200. CT also make a single shot rifle. EDM do the Windrunner with a smaller action to accomodate 338 boltface. Other CT based rifles include the PGW Timberwolf from Canada - these are nice rifles, but like the other two, try getting hold of one here (or in the US for that matter) waiting lists are loooooong. I looked into getting a PGW Timberwolf in 338 last year and found the company arkward at best to deal with....despite having cash waiting fortheir product. I believe that a british company is looking into developing on the CT boltface, but dont know any more details than this rumour... If you build your own.. The rifle youve already mentioned you considered buying is based on the RPA Rangemaster - it was a 338 and had the BF opened up to 408, it is a "homolgised" design and as a project it works exceedingly well - ive shot that rifle in question a few times and it groups waaaay out.. However, it is a 408CT Improved rather than the original design - personlly I think the shoulder angle of the case is a bitt too steep in this gun as barss life is very short (sometimes) Barnard have released a CT boltface on their "P" action - as ive said this is where I intend to go for my own, when I have the funds to get it off the ground - pretty sure the rifle can be built for £4000 complete. I am in touch with a guy in the states who is in front of me on this one, but the info exchange so far is promising. Brass Jamieson Brass is all that is available at present (I understand) and it isnt cheap. Bullets CNC solids, several makers available - you know who they are, but there is another maker about to release some in the states, I have contact details if you want them. I think the 375 or 408 is more "interesting" than the .50BMG, ballistically the 408 beat the 50, I think the 416 also does, but know little bout this to comment - I did see the same programme on SKY. Steyr may provide info - unless it is a wildcat of one of their cases?? Hope that helps PS I was pulling your leg about the 20 mm, staaaaay awaaaaaay, unless you want to develop massive recoil shyness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ds1 Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Hi Tiff, Rob`s 408 hunter is very sexy and the stock is one of I think 6 RPA did using the Robetrson Carbon Fibre - it cost a bomb. I guess in part what determins the cal is do you want a factory stick or custom - if custom some more otions exist - like 50 FAT MAC if you can get the pills which won't foul the bore - try dropping "Later" on snipershide a PM, he is very well up to date on ELR. I think John at USO has a 20mm Warewolf??action he would sell also. Factory rounds - 375 CT seems to be rated the top of the heap at the moment from what little I have read. Sticks, can you stiil get a 416 Steyr or 50bmg Steyr from the Sportsmans - no pain way of gettig a rifle. Think I would buy an AI AW50 - just to piss everyone off with a tank brake on a 27" barrel though. David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 David you are a baaaad man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 I would be seriously looking at what reloading components can be sourced from manufacturers this side of the pond before i decided on what mega-calibre 50 cal substitute to go for. With possible export restrictions looming when Obama takes power, i would hate to be lumbered with a rifle for which i cant get any ammo or components. Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 So to throw a spanner in the works i said i was thinking in the future of a 6.5x47 Lapua, he looked at my strangely and asked what on earth is that!???? what can i say.............oh dear!!!! Funny you should say that, when I applied for my 20BR my FEO did not have a clue what it was, after I explained it he went away happy, then a month later he rang me and asked he could show it as a 204 Ruger !!. I had to get him logged onto 6BR to show him the error of his ways. You would have thought that a full time FEO would know these things or at least know where to find out about them. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Componants for large calibres: Powder / primers - no specilist powder required just very slow burning Vit 170 and slower, its freely available here, primers are also available. Brass - 50BMG is easily obtained here Peter Lawman stocks loads of it, there are other places too. Brass for the CT - agreed its a challenge - Jamieson make it in the US, for CT (or are part of CT now), there stuff is available through Knesek Guns in the states, they will ship brass - but its spendy..... Bullets: Lost River Ballistics - is no more they used to make "bore rider" bullets, however, there are several small concerns n the US turning out CNC lathe turned solids - these are target bullets, no restriction in export / import as far as I am aware.. In Europe there is Lutz Moeller - he makes several styles of lthe turned solids for large calibres, using a driev band design on the Haak style of nose cone these bullets are very long and have high BC, but require specialist barrels to get the best out of em. GS Custom in South Africa also make bullets remarkably similar to the LM design (or is it the other way around) You can also use Hornady A max and I think Sierra made some large cals but were never released for the public....... Anyway, bullets are available and if you committ to a large calibre your in ££££'s anyway so bullets shouldnt be an issue - you can either afford it or not, sorry to be brutal, but thats the way it is. Believe it or not the 50 is the cheaper of all large cals to shoot as little as £3.50 a pop then you have a empty case to reload so it becomes cheaper. 50's new start around £3500 for the Steyr (I think) A custom would be a bit more I think depending on the obvious variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 416 Barret.....It was fun while it lasted.416 is based on .50 BMG brass,necked down. For those that didnt follow it....Story goes something like this. PRK (Peoples Republic of Kommiefornia) adopted a .50cal ban....... Barret intially told the PRK to go F+ck themselves.And refused to service/warranty/supply parts to or for any rifle or any agency that bought a rifle that was based in PRK. Well...this brought on the support of a lot of shooters....but support doesnt pay the bills. So to get around the ban,they took a .50BMG case and necked it down. Yes(416B) it is more accurate then a .50BMG.....but one needs to keep in mind the the .50BMG is a anti-material round and isnt really a precision rifle round. Panther, I've heard that version of events before; may be correct may be not. I don't know. But the 416B is quite a lot different to just a necked down 50 cal; size wise (case length) it sits between the 408 CT and the 50; it's also a different shape.....so in effect it's a 408 with a bigger case (from memory the 408 and 416 are actually firing the same calibre projectiles) Just did a quick bit of googling to try to illustrate my point, this is the only pic I could come up with -but I think you can see it's a little more than just a necked down 50 l to r 50BMG, 416B, 408CT ...makes the 408CT look like the wimpy little poor relation Also found an amusing vid of the husky voiced ex-SEAL chap using the 416 on youtube: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=No1jdfkzM0w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tiff Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Thanks for all the help so far, particularly Ronin for such comprehensive replies. I'm in two minds whether to do something now, or wait to see what changes happens in the spring. I think being sensible I shall get my 30-338 finished and then pursue the bigger caliber. As to which caliber I go for, these are my current thoughts: .375 CT - seems the a sensible option, it could be used in this country for larger deer/boar and abroad. Bullet selection is getting better, with a good few (but low B.C.) hunting bullets as well. However will it offer that much over a .338 shooting .810 B.C. Scenars at 2,800 or LM 105's? Plus future brass issues.... .408 CT - good ballistics with mono-solid bullets, brass again could be an issue with supply. However no real hunting use and no real other jacketed bullets available. If solids are banned on FFA (unlikely but could happen) the rifle would become useless! .416 Barrett - Still looking into brass availability and bullets, but seems similar to .408 in limitations. Plus it requires a 'special' powder that is only loaded in factory ammunition, making it to expensive to feed! .50 BMG - Ballistics ok, recoil certainly more. Cheaper on all components and base rifle could be made for around £2,500-£3000. Will always be able to get ammunition. Possibly the best option, even though its the most 'boring'! Please amend and correct me where I've gone wrong. Plus other suggestions very welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Andy, I think you missed my point buddy, yes all those components you listed are available now, what i was talking about is when they are NOT available because of possible strict new export legislation from PEBO (Thanks for that one Pat). This could be a good thing because it might stimulate experimentation with the available cases that we can easily get over here . Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 We are awaiting the test fire of a .338/408 Cheytac Improved- latest toy of the Editor of NZ Hunter. His current .375/408 Cheytac is pretty impressive but the .338 should be flatter shooting. 180+grs of powder is pretty exciting to touch off. Chris-NZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 He he he want one, want one NOW Pics Chris, please post pics range report, anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Pics Chris, please post pics range report, anything OK, will "keep my ear to the ground" (though I will probably hear the blast from our house which is about 8km from his place.. ) Have to go up to his place to testfire the 6mm Rem I've built up for my nephew so I'll check on progress. He has a 100yd range/shooting shed/chrono permanently set up. Just steps out the back door and into it. He also has my clubmates' Oehler Ballistic Lab on semi-permanent loan for when you really need to get serious data. You guys would get a real woody visiting his loading room. I can thoroughly recommend his magazine (NZ Hunter). Something very different to what you've ever run into and lots of tech info with a fresh perspective. Far from the usual sucking up to the importers "testing" their latest offerings. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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