Realistic results from a Remmy 700 varmint at 1000

[Shuggy]

The big difference is that the flat based Mk VII bullet has excellent transonic stability, wheras many boat tail 0.308 designs experience dynamic instability as they pass through the transonic zone. Hence the 30 inch FTR barrels and stiff loads to try and keep the bullet supersonic all the way to 1000 yards.

[22lrman]

 

If there was a headspace issue with your Remington, the Proof House would have 'worried' about it.

 

Factory ammo is frequently a few thou. 'under' so that it will fit any chamber. I'd be interested to know which factory rounds caused a 'very tight closing bolt'.

 

How did you have your headspace 'adjusted to just above the bottom limit'? Alter the headspace - on a rifle which has passed proof and it should be re-proofed - did your gunsmith tell you this?

Well thats the other story I mentioned earlier. It was v. tight on everything I tried, except S&B. PPU were tightest.

Once fired the brass was liveable, but in the initially the brass was being scraped on the head quite considerably during stiff bolt close.

Yes it was reproofed after apparently (verbal). The original RFD performed the work on warranty. No actual report returned with the gun. Original bolt number did not match last 3 digits of factory serial, which apparently it should ( normally). I dont know how they actually adjusted HS but I guessing some material was removed from the back of the lugs because the bolt cam back refinished with the gun. Also compared to a factory bolt at the local shop, the chamfers on the back of lugs have almost gone, maybe its catching now whereas the chamfers helped alignment during bolt pull before.

Its probably going to get looked at again before long just for my confidence sake. HPS is not far, i've heard good things about them. This time I'm going to ask for a dimensional report before I allow anything changed. Just so I know where I'm at.

 

All part of the fun of shooting I guess

[22lrman]

 

One thing to be aware of, particularly if you shoot at 1000+ on Stickledown is that conditions (and to a certain extent which target you are on) will sometimes give you confusing and spurious results, so if you're going to try different loads or compare against factory ammunition you need to be methodical and objective about it and sometimes shoot several groups over several sessions on different days before drawing any conclusions.

 

If you're marginal on velocity (which you will be with 155gn bullets and a 26" barrel) then changes in temperature, humidity and air pressure could mean you get a good result on one day and not so good the next, even though you may feel wind conditions were similar and the ammo was identical. There's a lot more to think about and consider once you go 'over the hill'...

 

Whatever you do, make plenty of notes!

Thanks, I have to make lots of notes as my memory is poor !. I will be trying load comparisons at shorter ranges 100m or 200m so have a little more confidence on whats good or not before I 'go over'.

Interestingly so far, the tigher groups things seems to align with Chris Long's Barrel Time concept. But thats only at 50m while dong the chrono work....

[Montey]

Why not try some GGG or RWS both shoot ok in a friends 20in factory 308 Sako

Don't get hang up about shooting a 1000y on Stickledown just go to the Zero range get your zero on a range card and pick hopefully a still day. But most important keep it simple and have fun.

[JSC]

 

Thanks, I have to make lots of notes as my memory is poor !. I will be trying load comparisons at shorter ranges 100m or 200m so have a little more confidence on whats good or not before I 'go over'.

Interestingly so far, the tigher groups things seems to align with Chris Long's Barrel Time concept. But thats only at 50m while dong the chrono work....

 

The barrel time concept does work and if you tune Quickload properly it will reduce the time taken to work up an accurate load dramatically.

[Swarovski1]

Stickledown has changed.all the trees on the left hand side were cut down 2 years ago and it's made the 1000yd shooting more difficult.if at all possible avoid hiring lanes 47 to 50 which is far right.the wind swirls and does all sorts of strange things there.

[PaulC]

Hi

as a few people have said just enjoy it, our club shoot at 1000 yds, if it's not too windy you can get decent results with pretty average equipment we shoot 4 figure 11's which are just bigger than a 1000 yd v bull each ,and I have seen this done with a 26 inch remington with thousands of rounds down the tube and 147 grain MEN millsurp so it can be done just have fun and get a rear bag!!

Rgds Paul

[22lrman]

Stickledown has changed.all the trees on the left hand side were cut down 2 years ago and it's made the 1000yd shooting more difficult.if at all possible avoid hiring lanes 47 to 50 which is far right.the wind swirls and does all sorts of strange things there.

Thanks good tip. Although I have a Bisley Buffalo target voucher to use up. Should be fun!

 

 

 

The barrel time concept does work and if you tune Quickload properly it will reduce the time taken to work up an accurate load dramatically.

Good to know, I have a copy and it does make things easier by far. Armchair/beer reloading is the best - ha ha ha.

 

Hi

as a few people have said just enjoy it, our club shoot at 1000 yds, if it's not too windy you can get decent results with pretty average equipment we shoot 4 figure 11's which are just bigger than a 1000 yd v bull each ,and I have seen this done with a 26 inch remington with thousands of rounds down the tube and 147 grain MEN millsurp so it can be done just have fun and get a rear bag!!

Rgds Paul

Ah, maybe ill pick up a rear bag then. Is it just to let the rear of the stock something to recoil along?

[gbal]

22lrman- yes a rear bag with bunny ears is well worth investing in,and the design means that when the front rest/bag and rear bag are reasonably aligned up with the target,the rifle will recoil with minimal lateral movement-the 'ears'keep it channeled straight back.

 

Though there are other varables (basic intrinsic precision,cartridge,weight,ammo etc),some idea can be glened from this:

shooting at an eight inch gong at 800 yards,two good shooters in my club were shooting 308 Rems off bipods and striking regularly close to the gong,maybe a couple of inches mostly-all around. My Bat Shehane properly rested in a bench rest front,and bunny ears rear bag was hitting regularly with no contact at all with rifle other than pinching the very light trigger between thumb and forefinger.

That is really just down to the steadiness and consistent very free recoil in the rear bag. I'm not saying it's more satisfying shooting etc etc...but it shows how much steadiness can be achieved,and wobble eliminated...most of this rear bag advantage will transfer to a lighter rifle and bipod etc in a regular shooting position too ( a mod/unsociable brake much reduces the unhelpful recoil too).

Too easy?...remove the bag,then the bipod-different ball game! Then man-up and get a Bradders 223 man op,and 4x scope. :-)

 

gbal

[22lrman]

Rear bag it is then. Ill borrow one from one of the guys and see if I get on with it. Currently I curl my arm round with hand under rear of stock. Theres an adjustable height screw stud/ runner puck I can hold on to on the underside of the Choate stock.

 

Learning a lot from you guys, keep it coming !

[22lrman]

Well I finally got some time away from work to get on to Stickledown. Lucky with the weather. Wind relatively constant, not too strong maybe 2-5mph most of the time.

Load: Lapua brass, SMK 155palma, 48.1gn BL-C2, CCI200 primer, 2.88 COAL, avg 2824fps, ES around 60fps.

Ebay £15 harris style bipod, semi supported rear with whatever I had to hand.

 

Not sure on the dimensions of the NRA face target but here is my first experience.

Shot 1 – missed board at 3 o'clock. (Why did I think I needed 9MOA!)

Shot 2 – on edge of board

Shot 3 – in the black. Around 2.75MOA windage. Drop is about OK – need to trust my tables – I think I would have been on in one!

LOTS of vetical dispersion, less horizontal. But generally on the black more often than not. Although being honest more frequently nearer the edges. Best 5 shot string of the day was 4,3,4,5,5 (EDIT -5 being centre). Worst was well something like 3,2,M,1,2. But I like to forget these .

 

Lessons learned:

I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning .

Gareth can shoot my rifle better than me (4,5,4,5,5).

Don't let Gareth shoot my rifle.

Prepare your drop/windage tables as accurately as possible - and trust them.

Must get the velocity variations down to reduce vertical (I hope).

I can't read wind very well.

An ebay Bipod doesn't cut it.

24x is more than enough

 

I re-weighed powder on 5 rounds and loads are within 0.2gn. Seating consistency with the LEE seating die though is rubbish. I understand the SMK heads vary base to tip quite a lot, I found about 10tho over 10 samples. But even with a RCBS gauge, variations of cartridge Ogive OAL are up to 9 tho, typically around 5 tho. I think this may be the velocity dispersion, but anyone feel free to advise. I think I need more speed.

 

All in all had a great time and didn't embarrass myself too much. Tried a friends 6.5x55 and it does have much less dispersion.

Many thanks to all on this thread for the pointers, I think it made a huge difference to go prepared. The lonely Man on the butts was very helpful calling my misses, I think it was Paul – thanks mate.

Must spend more time on the loads though.

 

I hope this helps someone thinking about having a go at the 1000. Give it a go. Just do the prep work and you will enjoy the day more. Most important to know your drops.

Cheers all.

[johngarnett]

How do you get on at 'short range' (300, 500, 600) ? Stickledown is a long, long way if you're not 'on' at short range.

Small steps !!

 

JohnG

[JSC]

Excellent! You've started down the long winding road and there's no turning back! You'll also find the road just seems to get longer and longer the further you travel down it...

 

First off, I'd say you need to invest in some better reloading equipment and get those tolerances much tighter. I'd recommend RCBS or Redding competition dies. They will seat the bullet by the ogive rather than the tip, so your ogive OALs will be consistent.

 

A variation of 0.2 gn in your powder charges is too much. You need to get that down to +or- 0.05 or better. The scales I have allow me to weigh powder throws down to a single kernel of powder which equates to about 0.005gn! I'm not saying you need to be as precise as that to get better groups, but it would allow you to cross one potential variation off the list if you could.

For FTR matches, I would weigh charges with that accuracy. For short range .223 shooting, I only weigh to +or- 0.1gn accuracy because it doesn't make as much of a difference.

 

So, load up a few more with tighter tolerances, get back down to the 1000yd firing point and do some back to back comparisons with your existing ammo to see how much difference it makes. That's the best way to prove what affects accuracy and group size.

 

Did you say you had a chronograph? It's essential to know what's going on with your loads.

[22lrman]

Yeah i know i think im getting addicted already! This is going to get expensive ! Its all you guys fault you shouldn't of encouraged me . Please, stop, no....

Yes I use an Alpha chrony and 50m range only 2 miles away. So it makes chrono work nice and easy.

I'll see if I can borrow a better seating die and give it a whirl.

I was thinking of buying a Lyman gen6 dispenser, if anyone has any feedback .

Also QL shows 46gn N140 2844fps, possibility if anyone has any experience. This works cheaper, and also powder has less pressure change per unit weight change, so im hoping less variance per tolerances in charge weight. Just 1.8gn over book max, but im loading out further, so pressure is still at 57k psi ish.

 

a quick question, on the day my rounds were sending back a clear smack from the target, where the 6.5 were not. Is it possible the rounds were going through sideways?

[Brillo]

One way of getting your velocities up without undue increase in pressure is to use RS 52. A lot of F TR shooters it. It should get you to about 2950 fps out of your barrel.

Do not trust QuickLoad data for this powder as its well off base.

[22lrman]

One way of getting your velocities up without undue increase in pressure is to use RS 52. A lot of F TR shooters it. It should get you to about 2950 fps out of your barrel.

Do not trust QuickLoad data for this powder as its well off base.

Thanks Brillo, Someone else mentioned this and RS50. Which one is best do you think?

A quick check of QL shows RS52 would need 50gn (104.5%) to reach 2949 @57675psi. Does this sound reasonable to compress 4.5%. Sorry for a silly question but I have never compressed loads before. COAL 2.88, smk2156 155gn, Lapua brass, CCI200 primer, 26inch barell.

[Brillo]

Thanks Brillo, Someone else mentioned this and RS50. Which one is best do you think?

A quick check of QL shows RS52 would need 50gn (104.5%) to reach 2949 @57675psi. Does this sound reasonable to compress 4.5%. Sorry for a silly question but I have never compressed loads before. COAL 2.88, smk2156 155gn, Lapua brass, CCI200 primer, 26inch barell.

I've found that QuickLoad consistently predicts speeds about 130 fps lower than actual observed values. You should find that 48 grains of RS52 will get you in the speed band you need but, as always, it safer to work up. Starting at 47 grains is a good beginning.

RS 50 is similar to N140 but with slightly higher velocities.

[22lrman]

I'll see if i can get hold of some RS52 locally and give it a go.

This long range stuff is getting a bit addictive, i can see it's going to cost me.....

[Brillo]

I'll see if i can get hold of some RS52 locally and give it a go.

This long range stuff is getting a bit addictive, i can see it's going to cost me.....

HPS is not far from you and they stock it.

[Cardiffplinker]

Good evening/good morning/good whatever

Stickledown makes or breaks champions

 

When David Calvert won the Imperial recently and earned his 3rd Queens Medal, he shot 155gn GGG, and didn't worry about the recipe

Well said Sir!