longbow3 Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 looking for advice from any rifle shoot organisers what is the rules re; firearms certificate do competitors have to carry their FAC and display it to enter any rifle competitions? any advice would be gratefully received Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundoc Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 We'll I don't know about competition organisers, but anytime I shoot at a club that I'm not a member of I have to show my ticket. I'd imagine it's the same for a comp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Are you referring to an approved range or field conditions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longbow3 Posted March 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 approved range Glen Tilt Blair Atholl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MH Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 All I require is your Section 21 declaration and your SSC Card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 We'll I don't know about competition organisers, but anytime I shoot at a club that I'm not a member of I have to show my ticket. I'd imagine it's the same for a comp? You've never shot in a comp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desparado Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 Hi "Longbow" Which competition at Blair Atholl did you have in mind? Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longbow3 Posted March 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 SGA rifle shoot what is your Section 21 and SSC card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 Section 21 declaration is that you aren't prohibited from possessing firearms SSC is a safe shooter card, required for MoD ranges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longbow3 Posted March 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 ok sounds like we don't need any of that Glen Tilt is not MOD and if everyone competing has a FAC they wont need Section 21 Phew was wishing I had never asked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 ok sounds like we don't need any of that Glen Tilt is not MOD and if everyone competing has a FAC they wont need Section 21 Phew was wishing I had never asked As long as their possession of that FAC is legit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCetrizine Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 It may only be required by MoD ranges but I wouldn't enter a competition that didn't ask for SSCs. Any idiot can get a FAC, I'd want to know I could have a fun shoot without fearing for my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatzi Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Never seen or heard of this section 21 thing before although I do have an SSC. Is an FAC not satisfactory any more (i appreciate the seperate requirement for the SSC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 The Section 21 thing has always been there since I've been shooting competitively (since about 1997) and in all that time I've never been asked to show my FAC, only put the details of it (number and expiry date) on the entry forms. It's entirely possible for a prohibited person to be in possession of a paper license if, for example, they claimed they lost it before it was revoked. Highly unlikely I know, but still a possibility. By signing the declaration they are categorically stating they are not prohibited. Here's a cut and paste from the NRA's online CSR entry form DECLARATION: I declare that: 1. I make this entry subject to the NRA Rules of Shooting and the Regulations for this competition. I also certify that I am qualified to compete in accordance with the Regulations and hold a current certificate of Safety and Competence, which I will present at the meeting. 2. I am not a prohibited person within the meaning of Section 21 Firearms Act 1968(as amended) 3. I have never had a Firearm or Shotgun Certificate refused or revoked. 4. I am over 14 years of age. 5. I hold a Firearm Certificate permitting me to use the firearms I shall use in this competition for target shooting or I am a full member of a Home Office Approved Club & will be shooting as a full member of that club and will use any firearm for which I do not hold an FAC only in accordance with the applicable exemptions to S1 Firearms Act 1968 as amended. 6. I agree that results and classifications may be published on the internet or elsewhere (only name, competitor number, class and score will be posted) CERTIFICATION: From 1st January 2009, each civilian shooting on an MoD range is to carry a certificate of safety and competence signed by the chairman of a club of which he is a member and which is affiliated to the NRA. Before being allowed to shoot competitors must produce their certificate. Full details on this subejct can be found on the NRA website. It's not really hard to amend that and use part of it on any entry form you choose to produce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatzi Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Ah right, so it isn't something you need to carry, just a signed `disclaimer` part of the document on the day. Thanks for clearing that up Bradders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundoc Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 You've never shot in a comp? At 'regular' clubs yes. At a 'big' competition, no At rossendale, diggle and WNSC I've been asked for my FAC as a visitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Nobody ever asked to see my FAC at Diggle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 The Section 21 thing has always been there since I've been shooting competitively (since about 1997) and in all that time I've never been asked to show my FAC, only put the details of it (number and expiry date) on the entry forms. It's entirely possible for a prohibited person to be in possession of a paper license if, for example, they claimed they lost it before it was revoked. Highly unlikely I know, but still a possibility. By signing the declaration they are categorically stating they are not prohibited. Here's a cut and paste from the NRA's online CSR entry form DECLARATION: I declare that: 1. I make this entry subject to the NRA Rules of Shooting and the Regulations for this competition. I also certify that I am qualified to compete in accordance with the Regulations and hold a current certificate of Safety and Competence, which I will present at the meeting. 2. I am not a prohibited person within the meaning of Section 21 Firearms Act 1968(as amended) 3. I have never had a Firearm or Shotgun Certificate refused or revoked. 4. I am over 14 years of age. 5. I hold a Firearm Certificate permitting me to use the firearms I shall use in this competition for target shooting or I am a full member of a Home Office Approved Club & will be shooting as a full member of that club and will use any firearm for which I do not hold an FAC only in accordance with the applicable exemptions to S1 Firearms Act 1968 as amended. 6. I agree that results and classifications may be published on the internet or elsewhere (only name, competitor number, class and score will be posted) CERTIFICATION: From 1st January 2009, each civilian shooting on an MoD range is to carry a certificate of safety and competence signed by the chairman of a club of which he is a member and which is affiliated to the NRA. Before being allowed to shoot competitors must produce their certificate. Full details on this subejct can be found on the NRA website. It's not really hard to amend that and use part of it on any entry form you choose to produce Blimey That's belt and braces, with an extra spare belt just in case. You don't need 2 and 5. They're either/or questions. 2 is for people without FACs. 5 trumps 2 (and 3, for that matter) -or it would if it had the word 'valid' inserted). [Hope the naughty revoked-FAC person you aim to catch out with 2 (a person whose weapons are therefore presumably illegally held with 12 years nick hanging over him for the offence?) wouldnt be criminally maaaaaaaad enough to massively compound his crime and risk even more than 12 years inside.... by fibbing on a competition entry form ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Well i wouldn't know about that as I've usually just seen the simple S21 declaration, but it was easier for me to copy and paste this one than search around for a simpler one As for where certain points of it are valid or not.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Why not seize the revelation as an opportunity to add more redundant questions? 'I do not wear loud shirts in built up areas' 'I do not step on cracks in pavements' The opportunities are endless! (Laugh smiley etc, but on my mobile ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 It was someone in the NRA that wrote it, don't know who, and more importantly I refer you back to the Gif posted above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longbow3 Posted March 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 amazing my little can opener managed to open a big tin of worms sounds like we are ok with everyone just making sure they carry their FAC and present it on the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradders Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 amazing my little can opener managed to open a big tin of worms sounds like we are ok with everyone just making sure they carry their FAC and present it on the day The only can of worms here is the one you perceive there to be. As far as I'm concerned it's just debate on the internet. Enjoy your shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 it is up to you, but stop and think. If you do not put any reference to section 21 and the person turns out to be dodgy you've not asked the question i.e. you are at fault, so for a simple wording you're covered. Re. SSC's, these are an indicator of a person, who you do not know, having gone thru' a prescribed set of training, in theory to a safe level with the firearms noted on the SSC. But this is in question as you hear that some clubs 'dish thrm out' willy nilly. So again this is only an indicator and if a shooter turns up who you do not know then personnally i'd have a known shooter shoot with him. As to this 'not on a MOD range' excuse. probably OK is you never use MOD ranges, but our local club used both MOD and private range, some members only ever using private ranges. Do we say they do not need the SSC - no, if they had an accident on the private range and we did not bother to put them thru' the same basic training as those obtaining the SSC then we'd be negligent, you cannot say 'you need training but you do not' for the same function or action - World does not work like that and has not for quite a few years - basic QHSSE! For the sake of a bit of admin CYA! Brgds Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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