any ideas lads?

[nuttyspaniel]

I was out this morning trying to scope in my new leupold. If I hadnt made basic errors it would be cock on but well I ran out of bullets with the bugger 2" high and 1/4" left as I feked up, but when I arrived home Ive noticed my brass which was fired today all have the ejector marked onto them? Now Ive not changed the load infact I would say these are all far more precise in load make, length etc as last time I was out I notice signs of pressure e.g. flattened primers, these are put aside ready to pull. Now the brass is neck sized, trimmed and cleaned as was the other brass in the photos below. Now Ive checked all previous fired brass and there are no ejector marks on them! Is this another pressure sign? Im running 115grn noslers, loaded with 47.5grn vectan tu700 and a remington mag primer in winchester super brass.

 

Look at 6 o clock on each of the brass.

 

Picture 1 with ejector mark on the M of rem. 3rd firing

 

 

Before loaded twice fired

 

 

And here is the rifle without bi-pod and new scope fitted

 

[Guest varmartin]

Simple.....to hot a load ie, over pressure and the brass is flowing into the ejector plunger...

 

Now the difficult bit...why is it over pressure if you have not changed the load ????

 

In no particular order....

 

1. oil in the chamber area.

2. Very fowled barrel.

3. Different lot of components used to make up the load.

4. The load is very near to` too hot` and a change in temp sent it over..

 

There may be other causes but...

 

The simple fix is to back off the powder charge weight 10 % and work back up .

[Andrew]

What Martin said. For what ever reason, that load is far too hot. What temperature was the load developed at V/S yesterdays shooting?

 

Start over again. ~Andrew

[nuttyspaniel]

Cheers for the input lads. I found it strange why it done this but I did think it was over pressure but wanted to find out for definate. The max load for this is 50grn! When I 1st bought the gun this load produced 1 hole groups with this charge of 47.5grns! I wonder if its a case of full sizing due to perhaps tight tollerances in the chamber? The gun has never showed excessive signs of fowling and it had only fired 12 shots before this batch of ammo. The bolt wasnt stiff to open today with these loads. Anybody else want to perhaps enlighten me or perhaps expend of varmartins constructive post?

[Ronin]

Never used Vectan before, is it temp sensetive??

 

 

Primer catering - and ejector mark = over pressure load.

 

Back off a wee bit (or start over with a different powder)

[nuttyspaniel]

Ronin the picture looks as if there is a crater but in my hand there is a neat strike hole and the primer hasnt flattened and filled the pocket, Ive had flattened primers and craters when working a non tox load for my 10 bore. Ive not had any probs with vectan before in my 243 it was sweet as a die no probs! Im going to load a few at 45grns and see what happens from there.

[stag1933]

You said you used a Remington magnum primer.

Magnum primers will raise pressure at any given loading and are not necessary in a case of that capacity, use a standard primer.

[eldon]

When zero'ing how many rounds had you fired?

My 308 load is good to go, hot but not over, but if I fire 10 rounds plus quickly in summertime I can get a similar result.

Were the rounds left out in the sun, car window etc.

 

Was temperature a factor in any way?

[nuttyspaniel]

Magnum primers will raise pressure at any given loading and are not necessary in a case of that capacity, use a standard primer.

 

Yes I know stag but even in the 243 they were fine but I was always like this time well under the max load.

 

Were the rounds left out in the sun, car window etc.

 

No mate they werent out in the light from the 1st to the last they were all the same! Where I was it wasnt particulary warm and sunny.

 

Again lads keep the input coming there's got to be a reason why its done this the powder and primers are all from the same batch! At present Im cleaning her there wasnt too much copper fouling a but more than normal but its throwing a bit more carbon than usual. I soaking the barrel with hoppes then bronze brush patching out then repeating. I initially soaked it for an hour with forrest bore foam.

[auquhollie]

John,

This could be a carbon build up on the throat problem, thus causing a bigger pressure build up in the cartridge.

 

How long have you used the Magnum primers ?. I bought 1000 of them a few month back and they caused me no end of shite. Pressure signs blown primers you name it.

 

Do you use a powder thrower ? ive seen the powder throwers move and throw too much powder !!

 

 

 

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[nuttyspaniel]

Ads Ive used the mag primers for over a year now with no probs. All the charges were throwen light and trickled up! Ive been cleaning the barrel all night brushing, soaking and patching! I thought my cleaning was up to scratch but there we go! I am actually soaking the barrel over night with the benchrest to see how I get on!

[Vermincinerator]

What time of year did you develope your load/

I developed a stiff load for a 243 AI in January using H4350, the same load on a hot August afternoon resulted with the bolt handle having to be knocked up with a mallet and exactly the same marks.

After spending hours getting rid of the copper fouling i switched to H4350 Extreme and the problem was cured.

Swapping to a non magnum primer will probably help as well.

 

Ian

[auquhollie]

Ah well it should be the primer. I have 800 CCI magnum primers if you want them. Take them off my hands.

 

I read you were cleaning like mad. If all this copper and carbon is coming out tonight then it might of been assisting with the high pressure signs you got today.

 

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[17 Rem]

Nutty,

uncanny.

I fired my 25-06 at a target this morning with a load I developed for it last spring. I'd stopped using them as I was getting soot back down the cases in the winter. Used a few today and they're fine.

I didn't think N160 was temperature sensitive, but it obviously is.

[nuttyspaniel]

Ian end of Jan the load was developed infact 6 shots to zero the went for a group 8,9 and 10 in the same hole! But that was with new brass not fire formed oops!!!

 

Ah well it should be the primer. I have 800 CCI magnum primers if you want them. Take them off my hands.

 

Thanks for the offer but once this supply has gone I will go onto standard primers, these are left from another source and Ive changed supplier.

 

 

I read you were cleaning like mad. If all this copper and carbon is coming out tonight then it might of been assisting with the high pressure signs you got today.

 

Im begining to think that!

[Andrew]

Here's an idea. Is that nickel plated brass?? And if so, did you check to see if there was enough clearance in the neck for the added thickness? You are trimming between reloadings, correct?

 

As to the "max" charge. That is just a figure that has little or no bearing on your personal rifle. Because your load is listed as under max, it doesn't mean it isn't max in your weapon. Case in point: My 17 MachIV would blow primers with "starting loads". It was only at 8% less then starting loads that I reached my performance goals without puncturing the primer.

 

In any event. We have enough folks working on your problem. We'll get it worked out! ~Andrew

[auquhollie]

In any event. We have enough folks working on your problem. We'll get it worked out! ~Andrew

 

 

Thats why i love this site, keep it up lad's.

 

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[nuttyspaniel]

This looks like a carbon build up as a cause!! I plugged the muzzel filled with benchrest left muzzel down over night! From left 2 right

 

1st patch followed bysecond patch after I tipped the benchrest.

I then dipped my brush in benchrest and brushed for 10 strokes, then my 1st and second patches then repeated. Ive now mopped the bore with an undersized mop and leaving to sit for 1/2 hour. I intend to repeat this followed by 10 strokes then patch out until hopefully hey presto.

 

[nuttyspaniel]

Is this possible? Ive again re-read craigyboys thread but from xmas time and he mentioned how strong montana copper solvent is and it turns a jag black when it touches it! That just mat well be an expression used by him but look at my photo on the last post! After soaking over night my 1st patch came out showing carbon no copper I then wet my brush and use it twice and both times the 1st patch was blacker than the overnight soaking patch!! Could the benchrest by reacting with the brush as Im using it I did notice what seemed like small deposits of bronze on the 1st patch each time the brush was used! Just a thought I want to clean the barrel but I dont want to rub it away so to speak!

[auquhollie]

John,

 

Do you have a rifls smith local to you that should have a bore scope ?. Very good to see how clean the bore really is after a cleaning.

 

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[Andrew]

Carbon build up?!??? You're joking, right? I have fired rifles that have NEVER been cleaned and not run into pressure problems. Keep looking, that isn't the answer.~Andrew

[nuttyspaniel]

Ive just wet the barrel and left it a few minutes then patched out and there was absolutely no carbon, copper on the patches. Looks as Andrew has said Ive been barking up the wrong tree with the fouling! It looks as if there has been a reaction with the brush and my benchrest! But to the load bench! And by feed back from others it seems vectan could be temp sensitive.

[auquhollie]

Maybe in this isolated case you are right Andrew. However carbon build up can be a problem with certain cal's. My 243 AI has just been cured of that very problem. 50 rounds were loaded up and the first 10 fired were popping primers right out of the pockets and the bolt handle was getting stiff. I was advised by a very reputable smith to JB the first 5" of the bore after a good cleaning. After this i returned to shoot the 40 remaining rounds and there has not been a problem. Carbon build up exists!!! Prior to this problem I was called away to work for a month and the rifle did not get its usual cleaning regime. In this time i guess the carbon in the throat had hardened and was causing pressure build up in the throat/case.

 

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[nuttyspaniel]

Just a quick update. My brush was reacting with my slovent!! No brush work meant no black or green!! I popped more forrest in the barrel and left it an hour and it patched out clean! Im just going to have to re-work this load, for the short term. I am changing primers, powder and heads for another load for fox, roe, hinds etc but will use this 1st load for larger stuff e.g. stags. This must have been down to temp!

[Guest rogern]

Nutty

 

I used to get that with a round (25-06) I used to use, my theory is that if you neck size then the case can/will not expand as much as if you full length, it looks like pressure as the guys have already said, try the same load again but FL size, if it still happens I would be very carefull and back off that load.

 

I dont get the magnum primer bit though, not saying you are wrong but never used them yet on a standard rifle & load.

 

Regards