The Gun Pimp Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 I see Miliband included the cost of gun licensing fees in his Conference speech yesterday - pledging to increase them to reflect police costs. A great way to lose a few thousand votes............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brillo Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 It's a shame he doesn't think more about how much he plans to give away. I'm all for helping under-developed countries and those truly in need but when we still give aid to India there is no justification for kicking shooters in the groin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJR Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 Simple rule for observing politicians - you can tell they are lying when you see their lips move..... As for Miliband I don't think Labour could have chosen a worse, less charismatic leader if they tried ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stacka Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 Simple rule for observing politicians - you can tell they are lying when you see their lips move..... As for Miliband I don't think Labour could have chosen a worse, less charismatic leader if they tried ! Totally agree, what a numpty. Be interested to see how the money is spent And to think if the vote goes the next way....he could be leading through the next conflict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22cf Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 There is no need to worry about him leading the country, there is no way Labour will get in on their own, especially with that boring TW@T leading them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetop Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 I completely disagree with all foreign aid, it never goes to where it should, I would change foreign aid completely, and let the government donate directly to charity's lime the Red Cross / water aid, not the governments of the country's, likewise how can we justify sending millions abroad when we have so many financial issues at home ?!? It's not like we are that we'll off.... Massive debts that even our great grand children will still be paying off ( and that's if we stop borrowing now !) no manufacturing industry to build a bigger better future... A reliance on housing to make us wealthy ( no one has told the government that we don't have an infinate amount of land ) via foriegn investors, a crumbling & out dated transport infer structure, a health service & wealfare system that is totally unsustainable. Not to mention farming, MOD, education, power & energy, landfill & recycling.... As well as reforming the red tape & quangos of local government, a totally bonkers taxation system ( look at the Hong Kong model to see what it could be like ). Rant over .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.300wm Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 Out of interest, how do our government justify giving foreign aid? I remain unconvinced and it would take Bill Gates' lawyer to change my opinion that it's a good thing giving aid to others when our country still has problems that need fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannywayoflife Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 Didn't a police force slip up and admit that the cost of licensing was about £57?! They just want to price people out of firearms ownership!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 Out of interest, how do our government justify giving foreign aid? I remain unconvinced and it would take Bill Gates' lawyer to change my opinion that it's a good thing giving aid to others when our country still has problems that need fixing. Just since you ask,here's five to think about: Britain took a very great deal from many other countries/colonies,so we owe some payback The need is vastly greater elsewhere-Uk does not have famine etc The UK fixes might not need just money,though no one is refusing help. Common humanity-clearly many charity givers have that view,so many people want UK to give,and this is a democracy. Broadly ,religious or moral convictions-deserving other humans,and we can do it. There may well be others,but a belief in any one will do. gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted September 24, 2014 Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 Just since you ask,here's five to think about: Britain took a very great deal from many other countries/colonies,so we owe some payback The need is vastly greater elsewhere-Uk does not have famine etc The UK fixes might not need just money,though no one is refusing help. Common humanity-clearly many charity givers have that view,so many people want UK to give,and this is a democracy. Broadly ,religious or moral convictions-deserving other humans,and we can do it. There may well be others,but a belief in any one will do. gbal True, we did take a lot in the past, so did others. can we claim from the Vikings, Romans, Normans etc, etc. As for charity, I quite agree, if you want to give then give. Foreign aid however is taken from our pockets and given away willy nilly, we have no choice. Don't forget one of the main reasons for foreign aid, and governments admit this, is to foster trade. So, what they're really saying is, we take the money from taxpayers and splash it about anywhere, when the recipient government responds with trade the high flyers in industry will reap the benefits of more profit. So, put simply, all the "ruling class" spend OUR money then reap the rewards. They may just as well take it off us and put it straight in their own pockets, save all this foreign aid farce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 True, we did take a lot in the past, so did others. can we claim from the Vikings, Romans, Normans etc, etc. As for charity, I quite agree, if you want to give then give. Foreign aid however is taken from our pockets and given away willy nilly, we have no choice. Don't forget one of the main reasons for foreign aid, and governments admit this, is to foster trade. So, what they're really saying is, we take the money from taxpayers and splash it about anywhere, when the recipient government responds with trade the high flyers in industry will reap the benefits of more profit. So, put simply, all the "ruling class" spend OUR money then reap the rewards. They may just as well take it off us and put it straight in their own pockets, save all this foreign aid farce. Trade was one of the other reasons,it's complex-that I agree.Does not the 'trade' profit cascade/trickle down to the factory floor producers too,,-ie ordinary 'working people'? I have no informed view about how fair this might be,or how efficiently foreign aid money is used. As a trading nation,we need markets (live people) to trade with. But surely there is a case for 'humanitarian aid' too-let's keep the kids alive,and sort out any kinks in capitalism later.And would not your reservations also apply to any money spent 'at home'-maybe more so,as there is no guarantee of any return at all,though there are 'deserving' recipients of financial help,and those who do not choose their limited ability to contribute. Nor do most in need of foreign aid. Complex,indeed- there have always been ideas about how the 'ruling classes' have done well,unfairly-though there are ideas about what 'unfair' means too! They say democracies get the governments they vote for-I'm not sure there is an option of 'no aid'. Lets hope it does some 'grass roots' good-especially in places where there isn't even grass to eat--and I don't mean grouse moors!) atb g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzar15 Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 I agree that there is a pause for humanitarian considerations in the allocation of Aid. But the whole system looks somewhat farcical when we donate millions to the Indian economy , a country that has a space programme !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetop Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 mint choc chip to them all ! Stop the ferry's , cancell the planes, flood the tunnel Fortress Great Britian ..... Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 mint choc chip to them all ! Stop the ferry's , cancell the planes, flood the tunnel Fortress Great Britian ..... Lol To change the topic completely,back to shooting related- where would you get your Varget/Vihtavuori; indeed,all that sort of stuff? :-) gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetop Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Lol I love the swear filter ... That's made my day ! I can assure you that i was not suggesting a delectable ice cream flavour. Varget , shmargit..... I only use ADR ... And they are still part of the empire, don't you know ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Commonwealth. My point was more -how does anything get in if the entrances are all sealed off,but it was just meant as some thing to think about-trade usually goes both ways....and UK depends on both imports and exports...there have been rumours of shortages for a while now.... :-) gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Of course, there is another, maybe rather callous but very realistic, side to foreign aid. If we give aid to keep folk alive in countries that can't naturally support them are we doing right or wrong. Natures way of saying "this land will not support this amount of human life" is to kill them off, should we interfere. If we do, it will be forever, if we do not it will be short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin credible Posted September 25, 2014 Report Share Posted September 25, 2014 Of course, there is another, maybe rather callous but very realistic, side to foreign aid. If we give aid to keep folk alive in countries that can't naturally support them are we doing right or wrong. Natures way of saying "this land will not support this amount of human life" is to kill them off, should we interfere. If we do, it will be forever, if we do not it will be short term. Here here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 Here here.Justin,I think you mean "there,there"...but as John Donne famously said "No man is an island...the bell tolls for thee. rod : your misunderstanding of human nature and what can and has been done throughout the world has been brilliantly detailed by Matt Ridley in The Rational Optimist (he is conservative,and has something to say about your 'ruling classes'-at least in the industrial age.He details how,and why,things can and are getting better ."Prosperity come from everyone working for everyone else".He has an outstanding understanding of genetics,evolution and societies,and the potential for enlightened virtue. "An elegant and devastating rejoinder to all gloom merchants everywhere" Boris Johnston "...will make you think twice and cheer you up" Steven Pinker Anything that gets those two disparate minds to agree has something going for it. "Our minds have been built by selfishness(he is an expert on the selfish gene sociobiology),but they have been built to be social,trustworthy and co-operative."-this he explains brilliantly .AS Byatt (express on sunday,it's not just the clever clogs/intelligentsia/wishy washy tree huggers.) Ok,mini lecture over-wake up and smell the coffee,it may well have been grown in an initially unpromising location! We may disagree-profoundly at the moment,it seems-but almost all the facts suggest human prosperity can and will be improved,and certainly can be. " I hear babies cry,I watch them grow,They'll learn much more than I'll ever know,And I think to myself,what a wonderful world"- yes,the song,why not join in,help make it so-surely better than famine fatalities,by the millions. good thinking g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzar15 Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 Gbal are you saying you can sing like Satchmo ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetop Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 Way too deep ....... There are always both sides to every thing.. Either way you look at it, the human population is out growing the land mass, intense farming is causing problems with the natural balance. If we should learn anything, its quite simple..... Nature ( the panet ) has a way of dealing with these issues, it starts slowly and builds - just like the human race. Medicine has cured lots of illnesses over the years .. But nature has evolved to bring stronger . Bigger ones along, you only have to look at recent history - aids, embola, ect... It's the way it tells us to 'slow down' .. But like all parasites, we think we know better & eventually we shall either kill our host, or have to turn on each other for our ultimate survival / eradication. Don't confuse this with human nature or emotion... There will always be radicals, dictators, believers & non believers, followers & free thinkers to influence every generation by ways manipulating desire, greed, jealousy, discord or even a sence of righteousness. The great thing about us is our need to love, feel, communicate , to teach & learn ... We are not designed like every other living species on this planet ( that's a whole other can of worms, not for this tho ) ... but like all living things we need oxogen, water & food.. It's such a shame that we are destroying the basic needs of our survival by interfering with the balance, through our desire to be human natured & emotional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted September 26, 2014 Report Share Posted September 26, 2014 Way too deep ....... There are always both sides to every thing.. Either way you look at it, the human population is out growing the land mass, intense farming is causing problems with the natural balance. If we should learn anything, its quite simple..... Nature ( the panet ) has a way of dealing with these issues, it starts slowly and builds - just like the human race. Medicine has cured lots of illnesses over the years .. But nature has evolved to bring stronger . Bigger ones along, you only have to look at recent history - aids, embola, ect... It's the way it tells us to 'slow down' .. But like all parasites, we think we know better & eventually we shall either kill our host, or have to turn on each other for our ultimate survival / eradication. Don't confuse this with human nature or emotion... There will always be radicals, dictators, believers & non believers, followers & free thinkers to influence every generation by ways manipulating desire, greed, jealousy, discord or even a sence of righteousness. The great thing about us is our need to love, feel, communicate , to teach & learn ... We are not designed like every other living species on this planet ( that's a whole other can of worms, not for this tho ) ... but like all living things we need oxogen, water & food.. It's such a shame that we are destroying the basic needs of our survival by interfering with the balance, through our desire to be human natured & emotional. OK,Treetop-let's just leave it at that-I agree Ridley isn't like reading the "Sun"-thats why he should be understood-he comprehensively debunks most all the points you present as obvious givens.I have a bias-as well as agreeing with him,I was a colleague of his wife in a University Department with very strong evolutionary and neuro biology research,linked with human psychology. There is,of course ,a very serious debate about the earth's basic resources (and has been for 200 years).There is plenty of evidence for dramatic improvements in food yields (genetic modification really isn't new!) and energy resources,etc etc. There really is no good case for 'there isn't enough' food potential-certainly nowhere near justification for looking the other way while people die. You can add on the 'caring'-but that is the motivation-the means are more tangible and practical-science not sentiment. The price might be a few less fatty hamburgers a week,but that might reduce cardiac failure here too. I used to think 'friends of the earth' had a point-but often their well intentioned contributions are rather suspect,except as soothing their consciences. I note ,too,that you seemed to admire Hong Kong's entrepreneurial tax system (middle class pay very little,but don't need the services that can't be afforded,rich think it a fair price for minimal interference.Whatever it's merits,you seem to agree that there are alternative solutions-and that 'nature' - whatever that is-is amenable to interventions. Whatever-let's agree to differ for now-and accept that the gene pool has a deep end,and a shallow one,discussions likewise. We can't build Rome-or Jerusalem-in a day;we can eliminate those dark satanic mills from elsewhere,just as we did from UK. atb g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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