Deer legal ar15 calibres?

[Flash]

Just wondering what options there are if you wanted to go down the route of a deer legal ar15 style rifle in the uk. Obviously 223 would be fine on CWD and muntjacs, but what calibre could you successfully run through a one of these rifles that is deer legal.

Cheers

Tom

[6.5Grendel]

My Grendel is deer legal

Shoots a 120g ballistic tip at around 2575fps , it will also reach 1000yds with a 123g scenar although its no f classer

[Flash]

Do you get any extraction issues with it, also who built it?

[Laurie]

6.8mm Rem SPC.

[tackb]

AR10 , 243/260/7-08/308/338fed/358win

[rem700]

The 6.5 grendel would be my favourite

i was going down the route of a 6.8 spc bolt action rifle but finances got in the way AGAIN

i do have some 6.8 spc cases if anyone is interested new and fired

[bradders]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/04/04/long-range-wildcat-ar-15-6-5-40mm/

[Laurie]

6.5X40mm - a nice little cartridge, Mark.

[baldie]

The grendel is no great shakes in a straight pull, because you can't push it hard enough to take advantage of the 6.5 bullet's BC and still have easy extraction with it. I thrashed a barrel to death , and tried every permutation possible. It was distinctly average.

 

When the barrel was dead, I replaced it with 6mmAR which is basically a necked down Grendel. This is an altogether different kettle of fish, and pushes a 90 grain scenar at 2750. Whether that is deer legal or not, I dont know, but it shoots like a laser and extracts without problem.

[gbal]

The grendel is no great shakes in a straight pull, because you can't push it hard enough to take advantage of the 6.5 bullet's BC and still have easy extraction with it. I thrashed a barrel to death , and tried every permutation possible. It was distinctly average.

 

When the barrel was dead, I replaced it with 6mmAR which is basically a necked down Grendel. This is an altogether different kettle of fish, and pushes a 90 grain scenar at 2750. Whether that is deer legal or not, I dont know, but it shoots like a laser and extracts without problem.

90g@2750 fps? Deer legal laser? Well, a 243 90g @2870fps makes only 1647 ft lb( it will go 3100+ for1950 ft lbs);;243 Lapua naturalis 90g@ 2986 fps gives 1782 ft lb ;240 Weatherby 87g@ 3200 is 1975ft lb,but at 2900 fps is only 1622 ft lb.

Laser? well the 243 90g @ 3120 fps BC.39 ,200 zero,is 7/7 drop/drift in inches at 300,19/13 at 40-so really a 250 flat yarder-the 6-AR loaded as given (for AR15 platform) will not be that flat,good accurate cartridge though it is.Of course,the 243 is available commercially loaded to be deer legal- one reason it is so popular.

 

The 243 is a very fine UK deer cartridge,though perhaps not the best for big reds,but not for AR15 platforms (AR10-yes).

 

NB -Dave's very relevant point-several 'AR' 15 platform cartridges have deer potential ,but magazine feed issues and especially manual extraction limits their practicality in achieving clear legal energy levels in a reliable AR 15 format.

Gbal

 

 

 

Gbal

[6.5Grendel]

Extraction is an issue although I have an armalon easycam handle which does extract everything I put through it.

I bought it used from low mill ranges who I believe are the importers.

At the time I bought it I wanted a 1 gun does all solution (deer legal , 1000yds , service rifle and tactical comps) the reality is there is no such thing.

Hindsight being what it is , get a .223 ar and a stalking rig in .308 or similar.

Mine has had several thousand rounds through it and is due a rebarrel but I doubt it will be another grendel.

Andy

[tony]

Get yourself a 6.5x55 and have done with it, best cal by far for any deer.

[gbal]

Andy,cam has to help.Have you used full performance loads with it,successfully? Actually,somewhat hot loads,to compensate for the typically short(er) barrels,which won't help meeting 'legal' performances.

 

Tony,6.5x55 is indeed a very fine deer cartridge.Too ' classic' for the AR15 platform,though!

 

Gbal

[tackb]

Get yourself a 6.5x55 and have done with it, best cal by far for any deer.

 

actually it's second best as 260rem holds the top spot !

[gbal]

" I have been reincarnated several times as every species of British deer,and I have been completely unable to tell any difference between 260 Rem and 6.5 Swede,as each and every shot has been equally terminal,from my (subjective,but informed) point of view.If you don't like either of those cartridges,then I've been dispatched by others too."

Gbal (spokesperson)

[tackb]

yes but you were deader with my calibre !

[Offroad Gary]

And killed more nicely with mine

[6.5Grendel]

Andy,cam has to help.Have you used full performance loads with it,successfully? Actually,somewhat hot loads,to compensate for the typically short(er) barrels,which won't help legal performances

 

Gbal

Mine has a 24" barrel which helps with velocity and ft/lbs. I have used factory ammo (hornady 123g amax) with no problems.

As I'm sure you know the ar is limited to around 50k pressure and a C.O.A.L limited by the magazine (2.270 is about max)

I know that bolt guns chambered in grendel can make more from the cartridge's capabilities.

Andy

[gbal]

tackb,Offroad Gary:

deader and nicely: deer oh deer.....cervid-me right!

 

Gbal

[brown dog]

Anyone looked at this;

 

Les Bauer .264 LBC-AR - a grendel with different leade angles etc to optimise performance with the 123 scenar. Everything I've read seems to say it's 'more forgiving' than the grendel:

 

 

http://www.lesbaer.com/264LBCAR.html

 

http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-semi-auto-rifles/79182-my-264-lbc-ar-pics-experiences.html

 

For those interested in a light 6.5mm cartridge, the attached pdf is the chamber print for the 264 LBC-AR that Les Baer Custom released at SHOT 2010.

 

Hornady is making 2 million pieces of brass in the first production run and Black Hills is loading ammunition. Hornady is also making reloading dies.

 

Pacific Tool & Gauge has reamers available for sale.

Les Baer Custom .264 LBC - AR Fin 19277.pdf

[gbal]

Re Les Baer 264

It's quite likely that the motivation for this was that licensing for the Grendell became increasingly difficult/costly....Les Baer made some excellent Grendells at first.

Actually the Les Baer is a chamber,rather than a cartridge-and the Baer chamber accepts 'Grendel' brass-just as well,as the chances of getting specialised brass in Uk are not currently too good (and such specials often have short production runs anyhow).(just for context-the 6BR Norma was a chamber too;and the 'Wylde' 223/5.56 chamber)

The Grendel chambering seems to have compound throat angles-.5/1 going to 1 degree,maybe to shoot a variety of bullets? Neck was/is .300 (Arne's original was .292).

The Baer 264 LBC chamber is .295,with a 1.5 degree throat.

It also seems well suited for 123 Lapua,which just touches lands when seated to magazine depth,123 Amax and SMK have some jump (though that isnot to say individual rifles won't shoot them very well).

There is no difference in performance,wrt velocity,and energy levels.

So we again are marginal for a UK deer legal combo,esp if the AR15 platform has a barrel less than around 24 inches,and there remains the issue of possible extraction difficulties,if it's hot loaded....(tho the cam aid might much reduce this...?)

US reports seem to be well happy with accuracy,esp with the Lapua 123,so maybe the redesigned chamber/throat/leade has some slight advantage accuracy advantage.And maybe for brass life?

 

Nothing at all wrong with this alternative(264 Les Baer),but not much gain either.As per introduction,looks more like a bypass to Grendel's restrictive licensing(which does free up other manufacturers) than any ballistic advance.

Gbal

[Roebuck]

My new custom 6,5 Grendel for october Sika :

-Action Sako AI 6mmPPC

-Barrel Lothar Walter 1450 fluted 18" 1/8 twist

-Stock McMillan Sako Clasic Edge decellerator pad

-Optilock SS extralow

-Leupold Vari XIII 2,5-8/36 reticule duplex

-Moderator RDS Vortex

-Lapua brass

-Barnes 100 TTSX

[Scotch_egg]

The 6.5 Grendel looks like a nice round. Privi even do factory brass for it http://www.henrykrank.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=164_199_204&products_id=2557