.30 155gr Sierra Match King

[Scotch_egg]

Just about to order some more bullets for my .308 I have used 175gr SMK's and 155gr 2155 SMK's to Good effect. However I am looking at the new 2156 Palma. Has any one made the switch and is it worth the load development?

 

Also anywhere that can beat £27/100

[oaken]

The 2156 is a big step forward from the previous 155gr. Yes worth the effort. Better bc and not at all fussy to load.

Not quite up to the 155.5 berger but 1/2 the price.

If you are coming down this way in July, I might be up for sharing costs on an order.

[garyw]

in sure Barry [gunnery] has started using the new palmas in his 308 with good results he will post if he reads this.

[gunnery]

yes i was testing them to-day at diggle shot 10 over crony average speed was 2775 out of a 24" ai ae mk111 but good groups but as vince said accuracy is more important than speed compared to 2155 they have a better bc they should buck the wind better i could cover ten shots with 10p going to try another 10 shot group but a friend is going to let me use is new mag chrony i suspect mine is a bit iffy only a cheap one i will let you know results when done

[bradders]

yes i was testing them to-day at diggle shot 10 over crony average speed was 2775 out of a 24" ai ae mk111 but good groups but as vince said accuracy is more important than speed compared to 2155 they have a better bc they should buck the wind better i could cover ten shots with 10p going to try another 10 shot group but a friend is going to let me use is new mag chrony i suspect mine is a bit iffy only a cheap one i will let you know results when done

 

My head hurts now

[John MH]

yes i was testing them to-day at diggle shot 10 over crony average speed was 2775 out of a 24" ai ae mk111 but good groups but as vince said accuracy is more important than speed compared to 2155 they have a better bc they should buck the wind better i could cover ten shots with 10p going to try another 10 shot group but a friend is going to let me use is new mag chrony i suspect mine is a bit iffy only a cheap one i will let you know results when done

 

Same here, ran out of breath.

[Laurie]

The 2156 is considerably more 'finicky' than its older 2155 stablemate (the original 155gn Palma MatchKing). Some barrels do OK with the new model, many don't - so much so that I know a couple of Diggle regulars who took their 2156s back to Brian Fox and exchanged them for 2155s.

 

So far, I've not tried them (2156s) in a barrel / chamber where they've performed really well, or in some cases anything like well, while the good old 2155 will shoot in almost anything decent and simply doesn't bother itself with the amount of jump to the leade. That's I think 3 rifles / barrels that the 2156 hasn't worked for me in, one sporter and two rifles with high quality match barrels.

 

The US Rifle Teams' Long-Range Shooting forum has had a great number of requests about chambers that suit the 2156 and reamer numbers, seating depth questions and similar. Some people have found that this bullet only works with a large jump of 0.030-0.050" in Bisley 150, Palma 95 etc chambered barrels. There is a newer chamber, can't remember its name that is designed for this bullet in slightly 'tight' Fullbore / TR / Palma rifle barrels. It (the 2156) is used by the two US Palma teams and by many American long-range sling-shooting privateers, so it can definitely be made to shoot. It's just that it doesn't shoot in everything.

 

My advice to people is buy 100 to start with and see if they work, maybe 100 each 2155 and 2156 to allow comparisons. At shorter distances, the BC improvement is less important than getting the bullet to group well.

[oaken]

I am surprised to hear that. I have two .308s that the 2156 shoots very well in, admittedly not exceptional but certainly good for the money. Both with 15thou jump, maybe I just got lucky.

I tried them as a budget and readily available alternative to the Berger 155.5 fullbore which, having established a good load, found to be an astoundingly good performer. But so expensive!

Dave, what rifle are you planning to use them in? I have standardized on the smk 175 as the best compromise in my TRG.

[Scotch_egg]

Thanks for the input gents. I had heard about the finicky chambers. Hence my enquiry from folks with experience.

 

 

I will be using them in my factory barrelled Tikka T3 varmint.

 

I have only shot 2155's through it. They certainly grouped better than the 175gr SMK's in the TRG I had.

 

I was hoping to take advantage of the higher BC in the 2156 as my barrel is only 20" I don't what to use the 175.

[Laurie]

The chamber name is 'Fullbore 2011' developed by a guy called Joe Gamboa and is optimised for the 155.5gn Berger, 155gn Lapua Scenar and Sierra 2156 Palma MK. Apparently the amount of jump needed becomes a lot less critical in this chamber.

 

That's no help of course to anybody trying them in a rifle chambered with something else or a factory rifle. The answer, as always, is to give them a try and see if the barrel likes them. if the bullet doesn't do so well at your usual amount of jump, then try it a lot longer out.

 

The 2156 has a very short bearing surface length compared to its OAL at 0.230" v 1.21" giving it the shortest bearing length of all the 155gn match bullets. I'm not sure if that makes it 'finicky' - it'll certainly reduce pressures all other thngs being equal.

 

That compares to:

 

Berger 155 BT ............ 0.344 / 1.212"

Berger 155 VLD .......... 0.395 / 1.256"

Berger 155.5 BT ......... 0.265 / 1.250"

Berger 155 Hybrid ...... 0.276 / 1.280"

Sierra 2155 ................ 0.273 / 1.131"

Nosler 155 CC ............ 0.290 / 1.145"

Hornady 155 AMax ..... 0.376 / 1.218"

Lapua 155 Scenar ...... 0.390 / 1.291"

JLK 155 VLD ............... 0.304 / 1.242"

Dyer HBC .................... 0.336 / 1.225"

 

Jerry Tierney in the US a noted sling-shooter and ballistics experimenter reckons that both the 155.5 Berger and 155 Sierra 2156 need to be driven fast to produce their smallest groups in a typical 30-32" 1-13 twist TR rifle barrel, Krieger in his case.

[brown dog]

I'm not sure if that makes it 'finicky' - it'll certainly reduce pressures all other thngs being equal.

 

That compares to:

 

Berger 155 BT ............ 0.344 / 1.212"

Berger 155 VLD .......... 0.395 / 1.256"

Berger 155.5 BT ......... 0.265 / 1.250"

Berger 155 Hybrid ...... 0.276 / 1.280"

Sierra 2155 ................ 0.273 / 1.131"

Nosler 155 CC ............ 0.290 / 1.145"

Hornady 155 AMax ..... 0.376 / 1.218"

Lapua 155 Scenar ...... 0.390 / 1.291"

JLK 155 VLD ............... 0.304 / 1.242"

Dyer HBC .................... 0.336 / 1.225"

 

Jerry Tierney in the US a noted sling-shooter and ballistics experimenter reckons that both the 155.5 Berger and 155 Sierra 2156 need to be driven fast to produce their smallest groups in a typical 30-32" 1-13 twist TR rifle barrel, Krieger in his case.

 

Fascinating info Laurie! Makes it look to have a crazy short bearing surface (I'm comparing chiefly with the 155 scenar which is what I use).

 

Lower pressure comment; how's this for a nutty thought stream:

All things being equal, very short bearing surface could deliver, quite apart from 'tippiness', a double whammy of greater variance in shot-start pressure and all-burnt further down barrel which could make MV achieving consistency more challenging.

Has that ever been noted on the other short bearing surface bullets in the list, or is it just nutty?!

[Laurie]

Search me BD! Some things seem to work, some not. I've never seen anybody who knows what they're on about in this field say what makes a 'tolerant' v 'finicky' bullet except that a shortish tangent ogive nose = tolerant (usually) and long secant ogive nose - finicky (usually).

 

We're now seeing such long-nose bullets for their weight appear that I think many of the old rules and guidelines maybe don't apply any more.

 

What I do wonder about the new Palma MatchKings is if they're marginally 'skinny' - must measure them sometime. They do seem to perform in most of the TR / Palma shooters' barrels which are still usually specified on the the 'tight side' internally. Sierras .30 MKs have traditionally been produced at between 0.3082 - 0.3085" according to my mike and this helps them shoot in a slightly 'loose' barrel, although they'll still work fine in the TR 'tight' jobs and true .30-cal (0.300" / 0.3080" bore / groove dia.) barrels.

[Brillo]

Laurie's report about the 2156's is very reassuring for me. I have yet to get a load that's anywhere near as good in my Sako TRG-22. With the 2155's I get good groups with many loads at any where between 0.020" and 0.040" off the lands (0.030" is optimum), but I cannot get the 2156's to begin to group until 0.070" OTL. I have therefore given up, having decided that I'm throwing away good copper.

In the search for an even better load in terms of wind beatability (I'm right on the edge at 1000 yds) I've started to try Lapua Scenar 155's but they just will not group with any of my favourite loads (VV 140, VV540, RL15 or TR140).

The ogive of the Scenars is obviously a different shape to the SMK's and it is a longer bullet with a much longer bearing surface so I expected greater accuracy from the outset. Not so.

I'm beginning to think the Scenars are cartridge length sensitive because the Sako TRG has shown that the gun isn't.

Any comments?

[gunnery]

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[gunnery]

[gunnery]

this test was shot using a atlas bipod and a THLR squeezy back bag from bench at diggle as you can see from groups there is not a big difference between the 2155 and 2156

[Scotch_egg]

I have gone for it and ordered a thousand 2156's today. Great price as well. Can't wait to get testing.

[gunnery]

Dont think you will be dissapointed if you are Pm me i will buy some of you

[Scotch_egg]

Thanks Barry. I hope they shoot at this price. Just realised I need primers.

[Scotch_egg]

They have arrived. 2156 on the left, 2155 on the right.

 

[gunnery]

dave testing the 2156 again on a new Magneto chrony average MV was 2820 10 shots tested groups again same as the one i posted earlier i am very satisfied with results and will shoot that load all the time hope your loads work out for you

[onehole]

You"may" just get lucky with a good batch of anything that Sierra or Hornady make and thats it! IMO Quality control is key and not sure considering the volumes that are made that these bullet producers stack up at all in our favour.

Lapua lot to lot are good and Berger as well believe me ,,,If I want to shoot tight in "any" calibre and not "using custom heads" then Lapua and Berger take a reasonable lead,,,,,,,,,yea they are more expensive,,, pay up and look big,,,,,I have spent years benching and resting common calibres not scientifically but get a pretty good gut feeling that you will spend a lot less time with lapua and berger to find a stonking accurate load day in day out that will all go down a tight hole.

 

Recently a box of 6mm 95 SMK,s showed up "4" different base to ogive readings by "17" thou ,,,,,,,,,seating depth for one goes out the window!!? Let alone load development with these red herrings,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,If you want tight ,,then everything,,everything!!!!!! in all dimensions just has to be the same! ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,?

[Scotch_egg]

One hole, once I have a load I just throw my powder with a harrel and weigh one in ten throws. I really haven't found the quality of the bullet to be the "week" link. That is certainly me!

 

Sierra bullets do everything I need. To my door these cost £25.20/100. Now if I was competing in competition where every thing mattered that would be a different thing all together.

[Brillo]

I'll echo what scotch-egg says about SMK's for the .308 (specifically the #2155's) as 155 grain Lapua bullets just will not work (so far) in my Sako TRG-22. However, despite this thread is really about .30 cal bullets, Lapua are king of the hill in my 6.5x47. The jury is still out as to which make is best for my savage 6mm BR.

Having already read the problem with 6 mm 95 grain SMK's I decided to measure and batch them. This kept the variation to a minimum and they shot well.

[onehole]

Scotch egg/Brillo,,,,,,,,,yeah see your point,,,,,,,,Guess I have too much time on my hands and get too fussy,,,I know,,,,,,,doh!!