reloading components, what needs locking away ???

[rem700]

have just receved my ammo safe

what reloading componants need locking away .ie, bullets,primers,powder ect ??

i know made up rounds should be locked up ,and i only use expanding bullets [no target bullets]

advice needed please lads as ime new to reloading just want to do what the LAW requires

thanks

[Swamp Donkey]

As expanding bullets are controlled items, I keep them locked away, primers and powder are best stored away from each other for obvious reasons, but I won't store them in a container of any sort, if the worst happens, your just adding to shrapnel.

[1967spud]

As expanding bullets are controlled items, I keep them locked away, primers and powder are best stored away from each other for obvious reasons, but I won't store them in a container of any sort, if the worst happens, your just adding to shrapnel.

+1 i was then typing the exact same reply

[Gunsgobang88]

Hi,

 

Be aware that in the eyes of the law primed cases are considered as ammunition and should be securely stored as you would complete rounds. Also, the primed cases count against the total amount of ammunition you are allowed to hold,

 

Alan

[rem700]

Thanks lads

[brown dog]

aware that in the eyes of the law primed cases are considered as ammunition and should be securely stored as you would complete rounds.

 

Is that Law or a local constabulary oddity? Strikes me that that would class blanks as ammunition.

[sonic]

I have not heard that primed cases count to rounds possesed. expanding bullets are by Lancs but I have never been told that I need to lock them up or seen anything in law that says so. My powder primers etc are locked up but not in the safe in the shed where I reload.

Alan do you know where the primed cases info came from? have you a link? I'd like to read it if you have.

[gazzar15]

I beg to differ in respect of primed rounds. They are effectively as BD states blanks over which there exist no controls. At renewal my FEO looked in my gun room and saw approx. 4000 primed cases on a shelf. I told him they were ready for the final stages ie powder and bullet and his only comment was how did I get them so shiny.................

[marty]

Hi,

 

Be aware that in the eyes of the law primed cases are considered as ammunition and should be securely stored as you would complete rounds. Also, the primed cases count against the total amount of ammunition you are allowed to hold,

 

Alan

Primed cases aren't counted as ammo ,some firearms department might like it to be so but primed cases are just that,not ammo!

[kent]

Primed cases are the same as primers on their own a hazardous material for posting and one you have to show your certificate to purchase but are not required to be entered onto your certificate. Once a bullet is inserted it becomes ammo (even if you forgot to add the powder I suppose), expanding bullets are sec.5 so count the same as loaded ammo (which is daft but how the law stands at present) as such need storing securely.

FEO's make their own laws up every day but it don't mean they are correct and should always be challenged on these matters (it comes from the high level of training they get and the amount of experience they hold before being given the job LOL)

[Gunsgobang88]

Hi,

 

Apparently there is case law to support the contention that primed cases are regarded as ammunition. A judge ruled that if a primed case was inserted in a firearm and then fires it would cause an effect and this would class it as ammunition. In my opinion this is daft but it has been ruled in court. A colleague of mine who works in the legal area brought this to my attention. I will be speaking to him next week and will ask him for the case details.

 

Surrey Police expect expanding bullets to be securely stored but do not specify a Home Office approved cabinet,

 

Alan

[Gunsgobang88]

Hi,

 

Apparently there is case law to support the contention that primed cases are regarded as ammunition. A judge ruled that if a primed case was inserted in a firearm and then fired it would cause an effect and this would class it as ammunition. In my opinion this is daft but it has been ruled in court. A colleague of mine who works in the legal area brought this to my attention. I will be speaking to him next week and will ask him for the case details.

 

Surrey Police expect expanding bullets to be securely stored but do not specify a Home Office approved cabinet,

 

Alan

[gbal]

Hi,

 

Apparently there is case law to support the contention that primed cases are regarded as ammunition. A judge ruled that if a primed case was inserted in a firearm and then fires it would cause an effect and this would class it as ammunition. In my opinion this is daft but it has been ruled in court. A colleague of mine who works in the legal area brought this to my attention. I will be speaking to him next week and will ask him for the case details.

 

Surrey Police expect expanding bullets to be securely stored but do not specify a Home Office approved cabinet,

 

Alan

 

Alan,

As you know better than most "guns go bang"so one reason for the legal view is the idea that the bang suggests a firearm,

And therefore has an effect on people.No doubt your colleague will give a fuller clarification.I assume blank cartridges are similarly considered-" prima facie" evidence that it is indeed a working firearm,from the potential victim's point of view.Ditto,as I recall the use of imitation pistols etc.

Gbal

[kent]

Ah but, case law normally just represents the circumstances legal definition is a different matter and as the firearms act defines this very clearly. For instance a blank firer becomes a firearm when used in a robbery or other crime, yet it is not a firearm when used for dog training on private land. again a primed case is capable of firing a bullet if one is inserted, in that case it matters not if it even clears the barrel.

[brown dog]

Apparently there is case law to support the contention that primed cases are regarded as ammunition. A judge ruled that if a primed case was inserted in a firearm and then fires it would cause an effect and this would class it as ammunition. In my opinion this is daft but it has been ruled in court. A colleague of mine who works in the legal area brought this to my attention. I will be speaking to him next week and will ask him for the case details.

 

Doesn't sound right. The same reasoning would also apply to a blank inserted into a firearm; ergo all blanks would now be classed as ammunition. If that's case law to date, the defendant wants to get his money back from his lawyer. Regardless I think the legal precedent, if set, would be stunningly easy to unpick.

[baldie]

I,ve never stored expanding bullets under lock and key, and neither have SYSS. We both had our rfd,s renewed yesterday, with full inventory checks etc

 

No mention of locking up expanding bullets. They are no different, or any more dangerous than a target bullet, until they are assembled.

[rem700]

well to be on the safe side [pardon the pun]

ile keep the expanding bullets in the safe

thanks to all who posted

[17 Rem]

Hi,

 

Apparently there is case law to support the contention that primed cases are regarded as ammunition. A judge ruled that if a primed case was inserted in a firearm and then fires it would cause an effect and this would class it as ammunition. In my opinion this is daft but it has been ruled in court. A colleague of mine who works in the legal area brought this to my attention. I will be speaking to him next week and will ask him for the case details.

 

I have forgotten the name of the case, but have a copy of the relevant piece of case law somewhere.

The barrister who unsuccessfully defended it was Nick Doherty, if memory serves.

[17 Rem]

It's R v Stubbings.

Damn my middle-aged memory!

[kent]

I,ve never stored expanding bullets under lock and key, and neither have SYSS. We both had our rfd,s renewed yesterday, with full inventory checks etc

 

No mention of locking up expanding bullets. They are no different, or any more dangerous than a target bullet, until they are assembled.

Once stored at an RFD with the extra security conditions imposed I can see why 1. it wouldn't be practical to lock them up 2. it wouldn't be worthwhile once the crooks are in there will be worse things to steal.

Could Joe public lock his door leaving say 36 firearms on display with but a simple cable securing them inside the building? Unlikely I think, then again we don't generally have monitored alarm systems, window bars etc. at pure private residential premises

Although they are no more dangerous than target bullets and just lumps of metal till assembled - The section 5 still applies and the numbers allowance. I was told by a serving copper who dealt with gangs and shootings that hacksaw cuts etc were often employed in std bullets as accuracy aint all that important shooting at a 180 lb target sat 10ft away from you in a chair