Neck turning new brass

[onehole]

I,ve neck turned for quite a long time now mainly because I have had tight necked 6PPC and 6BR Rifles thinking that was the best way to go,,,,most Benchrest shooters seem to go this route so I followed and have had superb results in my rifles/chambers etc.Almost zero runout on heads as a result.Almost all onehole groups{1/4 inch} after load testing.

I have not had a standard neck in these calibres or cleaned up cases for standard necks in these calibres so cannot comment on the benefits of turning for these.

 

However I do have a standard min spec chambered 308 rifle that I have neck turned some Lapua cases that exhibited 3 to 4 thou runout after fireforming!!

Shooting assembled "wobbly" rounds alongside the turned necks with only half to one thou runout clearly showed the benefits of turning,,,,wobbly rounds using 155 scenars went into about an inch at 100m ,,,,turned trued up necks went down tight touching groups .Out in the field and 300 yards your talking a difference of golf ball to tennis ball difference in group so it does make a difference.

I think if you can measure your assembled rounds runout on the head and its about a thou to thou and a half then dont bother turning,,waste of time and you may even make it worse!!!What is worth doing if you don,t want to turn is looking out for any rogue cases that display excessive runout and bin them!!!!

I am lucky to own a min spec standard chamber Pacnor super match 223 barrelled RPA rifle smithed by Dasherman that exhibits a nil runout on case neck and assembled head measurment with standard Lapua Match cases,,,,,,Ive seen touching groups at 200 with this rifle and 74g Bergers and 50 Vmax,,,,,,,,Neck tuning not required!!

[sporting rifles]

you will totally wreck things if you stop turning then, I feel the difference is only apparent if the expanded neck gets tight to the chamber before release of the bullet from case. Obviously pressure will vary if some contact some don't - so depends on your chamber

it don't matter what you "feel" mate its only matters what works,if you havnt done it you wouldn't know.but to answer you question "yes" it would wrecks things if I stopped turning as my rifles and many others woundnt perform as well.

[gbal]

I too don't shoot comps or BR but I like to get the best from my reloads,the benefit is knowing you have done all you can to produce the very best ammo for your chosen caliber.

 

That's one of those psychological factors you dismiss without any reason in other replies- of course confidence is a factor-exactly what I said,consciously or sub consciously-which it tends to become-if it is justified.

[gbal]

I too don't shoot comps or BR but I like to get the best from my reloads,the benefit is knowing you have done all you can to produce the very best ammo for your chosen caliber.

 

That's one of those psychological factors you dismiss without any reason in other replies- of course confidence is a factor-exactly what I said,consciously or sub consciously-which it tends to become-if it is justified.

i do and beleive me it makes a big difference at extendded ranges,

 

An accurate rifle is a consistantly shooting rifle

 

one shot one kill does not equate to an accurate rifle but if the rifle can do consistant shot on shot (small groups) time and time again thats an accurate rifle

 

by neck turning you are acheiving several gains at thte same time the biggestbeing shot to shot consitancy along with consistant neck tension gripping the bullet and lowering the run out of each bullet[/quot

 

Not that it matters,but accurate means hitting what you want to hit,and precision is repeatability(grouping). One shot hits need accuracy,though a precision grouper achieves accuracy by adjusting the point of impact,and it's highly desirable to have that if you shoot more than once.neck turning helps some applications and rifles more than others.

Gbal

[gunner]

Thankyou everone for input ! Thats why i love this site to bits , iv bought the kit so i will go ahead and do it ! the 20 cases tested were neck sized noslers , not sure if ill have the same effect with lap! might turn out like Ronnys - showing no real advantage , but i hope itl work good . iv still yet to have it properly bedded by baldie , im trying my damn hardest to get the accuracy iv wanted for sooo long . Thanks again lads .. Tim ..

[gbal]

nothing to do with the subconscious mate facts and figures are what matters,in my case we have the facts and the figures.neck turning makes an inproovment and that's a fact

 

OK. I neck turn for some rifles and cases,but not for others.I believe it helps.I have no axe to grind either way,but just to ask for just what the facts and data were- if there was no improvement in accuracy and precision,what is the basis of the claim for improvement?You seem very tetchy on this,needlessly,and are rather economical with the facts and figures you repeatedly mention.I am happy that what you say is an honest summary of your opinions,and I'd tend to agree,where you are consistent.but if an athlete claimed as a fact some new training procedure improved their performance in the 100 metres,it just didn't actually reduce the times,would you not be a little curious about what the improvements were?The coach would be too,but not impressed enough to overlook the non improvement in times,and recommend the procedure to new athletes.

Neck turning can help precision,it can increase confidence,it does not produce the same improvements in every rifle,or shooter,and some may decide they don't need to do it.

Repeating an opinion does not make it a fact,and given all this interest in measuring,surely it's not unreasonable to just ask for the data,or more precisely perhaps,why the claim is repeated without any figures,or at least clarification,wrt precision-I'll be delighted if you have data showing improved precision,as I find neck turning one of the less fun prep activities,and would welcome some evidence.mainly,I'm just saying that without the facts and figures we don' t really progress,mate.

,I'll neck turn to get .2 in a non BR rifle,for some uses,and pretty sure I need to do so in a BR rifle,to get the best from it,because there is measured evidence on this,way beyond one shooters findings.

Atb

Gbal

 

 

 

 

[sporting rifles]

OK. I neck turn for some rifles and cases,but not for others.I believe it helps.I have no axe to grind either way,but just to ask for just what the facts and data were- if there was no improvement in accuracy and precision,what is the basis of the claim for improvement?You seem very tetchy on this,needlessly,and are rather economical with the facts and figures you repeatedly mention.I am happy that what you say is an honest summary of your opinions,and I'd tend to agree,where you are consistent.but if an athlete claimed as a fact some new training procedure improved their performance in the 100 metres,it just didn't actually reduce the times,would you not be a little curious about what the improvements were?The coach would be too,but not impressed enough to overlook the non improvement in times,and recommend the procedure to new athletes. Neck turning can help precision,it can increase confidence,it does not produce the same improvements in every rifle,or shooter,and some may decide they don't need to do it. Repeating an opinion does not make it a fact,and given all this interest in measuring,surely it's not unreasonable to just ask for the data,or more precisely perhaps,why the claim is repeated without any figures,or at least clarification,wrt precision-I'll be delighted if you have data showing improved precision,as I find neck turning one of the less fun prep activities,and would welcome some evidence.mainly,I'm just saying that without the facts and figures we don' t really progress,mate. ,I'll neck turn to get .2 in a non BR rifle,for some uses,and pretty sure I need to do so in a BR rifle,to get the best from it,because there is measured evidence on this,way beyond one shooters findings. Atb Gbal

what facts and figures do you want my friend ?? an actual video of what we did ?? are you calling me a liar ? I don't know where your trying to go with this.as its already been said taking inconsistent variables is what produces consistant accuracy.neck turning is just one of those variables.

[Elwood]

If I didn't know any better I could mistake this thread for the Airgun BBS and the reincarnation of Ackley or his alter ego.

[Danpd]

If I didn't know any better I could mistake this thread for the Airgun BBS and the reincarnation of Ackley or his alter ego.

I know, it's brilliant! Wait I have to go and have an argument with a brick wall and let my meds kick in.

[gbal]

what facts and figures do you want my friend ?? an actual video of what we did ?? are you calling me a liar ? I don't know where your trying to go with this.as its already been said taking inconsistent variables is what produces consistant accuracy.neck turning is just one of those variables.

 

If you feel in anyway that I have been unfair,then that was not my intention,and there are numerous comments in what I 've said that agree with some of your points,in essence that neck turning is often helpful.

I shall remain puzzled by your two statements that " R did't find any accuracy improvement...and that's fine,as neither did we...",and

"The proof is in the eating".That's because to me,the 'eating' is ultimately where the bullet goes.But that is just me,and you do not need to agree.As a peace compromise,perhaps given the impressive .2 grouping anyhow the improvement in subsequent grouping after neck turning was too small to be clearly seen.You are absolutely correct that removing variation is desireable,even if the improvement is small,sometimes.

.2 groups are excellent eating,and if anyone says they have better overall performance with the same velocities etc,maybe without neck turning,they just don't have better groups,have a smile about it.Turn necks,rather than raise eyebrows.Keep up the good work.

ATB

Gbal

 

[kent]

it don't matter what you "feel" mate its only matters what works,if you havnt done it you wouldn't know.but to answer you question "yes" it would wrecks things if I stopped turning as my rifles and many others woundnt perform as well.

 

I have it makes a difference in some, is essential in a tight cut chamber and makes not a jot of difference in others. So as I have done it, have compared that must make me suitable to comment I recon don't you

[sporting rifles]

I have it makes a difference in some, is essential in a tight cut chamber and makes not a jot of difference in others. So as I have done it, have compared that must make me suitable to comment I recon don't you

Mmmm you state

1.you have done it

2.it makes a difference in some

3.essential in tight neck chamber

4.makes "not a lot of difference" in others

 

now forgive me for stating the obvious you havnt said "its dosnet make any difference" or "its a waste of time" so neck turning must improve something would you say

[kent]

Mmmm you state

1.you have done it

2.it makes a difference in some

3.essential in tight neck chamber

4.makes "not a lot of difference" in others

 

now forgive me for stating the obvious you havnt said "its dosnet make any difference" or "its a waste of time" so neck turning must improve something would you say

 

I think you might want to read exactly what I have actually said and just maybe wind it in a bit? Chambers vary in many ways. The only way to know for sure is to illuminate all other variables and blind test, to be frank my own neck turning gear is boxed up and hasn't been used in around 5 yrs now and wont come out again till I specify a new gun that requires it, as I now shoot exclusively in the field were a tight turn necked gun is a liability and as I also don't really wish to mess around forming or turning brass in a case conversion- I think that might be some time.

 

Any gun or any cartridge is only as accurate as its weakest link allows it to be. An accurate gun is something different to everyone, to a hunter its putting one shot on target in different climatic conditions- with the facility to take another quite quickly to deal with a follower or yes even correct a mistake. To a BR guy its putting those 5 shot groups in, an F-class shooter single shot repeatability in changing conditions, PR guy to put numerous rounds down range on target from different stances within a time frame. They are all accurate guns just with a different brief on how they perform

[Ronin]

Gentlemen,

 

 

before the topic degrades into a bare-knuckle boxing match,,,,

 

 

May I refer you to a pinned article, posted by Elwood, the post has links to an article written by German Salzar, a very experienced reloader and rifleman who is highly respected around the world.

 

 

 

The article should be a reference on "how to" for anyone, no matter how "experienced, knowledgeable, or assured they are of their own abilities.

 

 

http://ukvarminting.com/forums/topic/10179-neck-turning-how-too/

 

 

Topic now closed