5/35 SMc

[abolter]

I recently took dellivery of my new rifle for night shooting foxes. My plan was to get a flat shooting fast round that was really frangible. My mate put the idea in my head of a 5/35 SMC.

 

Its basically a 20cal and not much different from a 20BR. Getting the dies was an issue but I found a guy in the states that sold me his rather than wait 16 weeks from pacific. 3 weeks after receiving the dies I got the rifle!!

 

Its a Barnard action, Walther barrel and Macmillan stock.

 

I use 6mmBR brass necked down to 22BR and then into the 5/35 dies and its been pretty straightforward. A bonus is the pre fireformed rounds are accurate enough for rabbits so I can fire them at something instead of just for expanding the case. I have so far tried 26gr Barnes and 32 grain Sierra, Hornady and Nosler and it shoots sub 1" with all of them and with a 4 grain powder variation. I have settled on a 32gr hornady load with 34gr of N540 as the Barnes werent expanding in foxes. I have my Longbow on top at the moment so really need to put a finer scope on top to complete the load development. I am getting 4400fps but did get upto 4600 with a bit more powder.

 

So far I am delighted. The only unknown thus far is barrel wear as it is supposed to be excellent but until I have got a 1000 rounds or more down I will struggle to know. It certainly helps that I have had a record August with foxes too, all helps with the feel good factor.

 

Anyone else shoot one of these?

 

 

ps apologies for no personal introduction but i couldnt see where to do it so I assume you guys dont stand on ceremony around here :-)

[brown dog]

Lovely.

 

Could you post a couple of pics of the 5/35 round being made?

[abolter]

photobucket seems down. so I will get some before and after type pics up asap

[mtb]

very nice rifle there mate

atb mike

[abolter]

6mmBr case...

 

these were a couple of cases that things didnt go to plan for when I tried to get down to a .22 neck

 

this shows the 6mm case necked down to 20cal with a mm for comparison

 

and finally this is a fired case showing the rounded shoulders

 

The shoulder position of the case remains unchanged through the process. One vaguely interesting anomaly was that I had to trim the cases after necking down as the "spare" brass seemed to go into the neck length. However once they are fireformed the cases are a little short as the radius on the shoulder seems to oull the neck down compared to an angled neck.

 

As things stand I have got away without neck turning.

[17 Rem]

Interesting project. Who built it for you?

[SteveW]

Welcome Abolter,

 

Read a few articles over the years in the Varmint Hunters magazine, great to see someone over had one built.

 

What twist barrel is the LW?

 

Steve

[abolter]

Mr Kershaw built it for me and I must say provided an excellent service in doing so. V V happy with it.

 

To be clear I didnt post this as an advert tho. Just thought it was an interesting project as you say

[22-250jock]

hi abolter,

never heard of this calibre before, sounds like it could be a lot of fun,

 

i take it that at 4000-4500 fps its a flat shooting round?, and packs a fair punch for its weight

 

had my 22-250 rebarreled by steve 5 years ago now, have to agree, great service

 

cheers jock

[happyhunter]

Sounds one hell of a foxing rig abolter, very very nice. Have you tried it at range for drop? Sounds perfect for use with nv.

[abolter]

The idea is to have a 280 to 300m MPBR. In principle it is possible to get 5000fps but I havent summoned up the courage yet. I also need to do some out door work at targets at 200 and 300 (possibly 400m) targets to check reality against concept but so far its doing everything it said it would.

 

It deals a pretty devastating blow to charlie. The only other concern I have is wind but also not experimented with that yet. Shouldnt be worse than any other 20 for that tho

[flyingfisherman]

welcome to UKV Abolter!

 

Whats the 5/35 vs. fox score upto now!?

[Elwood]

 

 

It deals a pretty devastating blow to charlie. The only other concern I have is wind but also not experimented with that yet. Shouldnt be worse than any other 20 for that tho

 

The faster it goes the less effect the wind has. Nice project, refreshingly different.

[abolter]

FF, tally since 26th July is 29!!! A record for me in sch a short space of time

[TonyH]

Good looking rifle, and especially nice to see someone going for one of those "slightly different" rounds. I imagine there aren't too many 5/35 SMc rifles around in UK... I'd seen pics of the round many times in e.g. The Varmint Hunter magazine and wondered about the significance of that rounded shoulder, so your comments are useful. Do keep us updated. Re bullets, in 20 cal I'd recommend trying Nosler Ballistic Tip, and Sierra Blitz King.

Regards, Tony

[abolter]

I'd had bother getting hold of the Noslers but now I have got them it is possible to start playing. I will keep you posted

[garyw]

he knows afew things does mr K.i have a .22br that was his personal rifle and managed to wangle it off him,its a shooter alright does me for short range target work but mainly a vermin gun.

[foxing2night]

Very indeed,,

 

I am looking forward to seeing your test results.

 

Darrel

[Buster Gonad]

I recently took dellivery of my new rifle for night shooting foxes. My plan was to get a flat shooting fast round that was really frangible. My mate put the idea in my head of a 5/35 SMC.

 

Its basically a 20cal and not much different from a 20BR. Getting the dies was an issue but I found a guy in the states that sold me his rather than wait 16 weeks from pacific. 3 weeks after receiving the dies I got the rifle!!

 

Its a Barnard action, Walther barrel and Macmillan stock.

 

I use 6mmBR brass necked down to 22BR and then into the 5/35 dies and its been pretty straightforward. A bonus is the pre fireformed rounds are accurate enough for rabbits so I can fire them at something instead of just for expanding the case. I have so far tried 26gr Barnes and 32 grain Sierra, Hornady and Nosler and it shoots sub 1" with all of them and with a 4 grain powder variation. I have settled on a 32gr hornady load with 34gr of N540 as the Barnes werent expanding in foxes. I have my Longbow on top at the moment so really need to put a finer scope on top to complete the load development. I am getting 4400fps but did get upto 4600 with a bit more powder.

 

So far I am delighted. The only unknown thus far is barrel wear as it is supposed to be excellent but until I have got a 1000 rounds or more down I will struggle to know. It certainly helps that I have had a record August with foxes too, all helps with the feel good factor.

 

Anyone else shoot one of these?

 

 

ps apologies for no personal introduction but i couldnt see where to do it so I assume you guys dont stand on ceremony around here :-)

[Buster Gonad]

Doh. Very interesting rifle and calibre.Ithink it may be the rifle Steve was describing to me recently.Please keep us up to speed on progress and developments

[Alycidon]

Hi and welcome, you certainly have a nice looking rifle there, whose is the stock?.

 

I shoot a 20BR so am interested to hear about your work with the 5x35SMC, cant be more than a couple in the UK. It was a case I looked at when researching the 20BR but US rumours of indifferent accuracy put me off.

 

What twist are you running?, shooting a 32 grain by choice it sounds like a 1 in 12 or so.

 

I use Sierra 39gr Blitz Kings and Berger 50gr MEF and match bullets in a 1 in 9 twist throated for the 50gr Berger. I run them both at about 3500 using N150. This is a sweet shooting download, using cooler powder gives me a nice case fill and consistent velocity. I could wind the 50 up to 3800 but case life would be no more than 3 or 4 cycles. I tend to use the 39gr for crows and shorter distance foxes and the 50s for longer foxes.

 

Once you get a chance to wring it out please let us know what accuracy you are getting from it, I would expect below .5 moa. Dont worry to much about the wind unless its above 10mph and you are shooting 150 yards plus, I have a drop //drift chart from Biggameinfo in my 4x4 for quick reference if needed, its easy enough to input your info and create your own.

 

I zero at 160 yards, then I know I can aim straight at to 180 yards at night without thinking to much about it.

 

A

[abolter]

The stock is a McMillan and you are quite right I am using a 1:12 twist Walther barrel.

 

I am getting the .5 MOA with a 32 gr Hornady and 34gr of N540 and a velocity around 4200. I was using 26gr Barnes and getting the accuracy and around 4600fps however they seemed to be passing through foxes.

 

The new rifle was like a fox magnet in August and I had 28 and no problem with Vmax.

 

However I ave gotten some Noslers and H322 today which are claimed to be optimal from the US.

 

The rifle has been astonishingly accurate and shoots MOA with 3 different bullet types and a 4 grain range with N540 but only a couple of the loads gave touching holes.

 

Wind is yet to be a major consideration but 1 I will watch for.

 

I opted for the smaller bulet as I shoot 50gr though my 22/250. The one thing I am still curious about is wether the barrel wear claims prove to be justified.

 

How many rounds have you done with the 20BR?

[Alycidon]

About 800 so far, in 3 years. I have taken it to Bisley on several occasions where shooting 100BR it always agges mid/high 3s - low 4s off a Harris bipod, that surprised a few of the lads down there with dedicated BR rigs. Best groups are in the 2s, I usually have a flier so one group mid/high 5s. Fox shooting I have missed 3 and killed just over 50 with it since new, longest one about 280 yards so not that far compared to some. I keep on top of the foxes either myself or a friend with a 22BR as I rear a lot of pheasants.

 

I am expecting this level to continue for about another 400 rounds, then have another 2000 rounds of 'acceptabe' accuracy. Thats acceptable vermin shooting not paper punching.

 

Pass throughs happen, my mate with the 22BR had one last night with a Berger match 55gr. I recommend the 39gr Sierra Blitz King, explosive at 3500, crows in several parts. It needs a 1 in 11 but shootings 4s in my 1 in 9.

 

If you put Barrel life into Google you can get onto a site where you put your load in and it gives you an estimated barrel life. big doses of hot powder give great velocity figures but kills the barrel pretty fast. I find 3500 is more than enough. I would suspect that the loads you are using will give you a barrel life of 1000 rounds, maybe 1200.

 

A

[abolter]

Well I have had a bit of a play around with the 5/35 and some different powders and bullets.

 

The 32gr Nosler BTs were the favoured bullet in the states but I have struggled to get the best performance from them.

 

With the N540 the best load was 34grains and produced a half inch group and a velocity of 4170fps.

 

With the H322 things were a bit better but the bullet/rifle didnt like the hotter loads and that meant that the group opened up to nearly 2". However at 30 and 31gr it gave half inch groups and velocities up around the 4200 mark.

 

The 32 gr sierra bullets I tried gave similar performance to the Nosler.

 

The winner for accuracy is the Vmax 32 grainers.

 

 

This is the best at 32gr powder and nearly 4400fps, the one below resulted in a slightly wider group and a stiff bolt so I think we will leave that alone!!

 

This was almost 4600fps which is the claim made from the US so that stacks up.

 

I have tried 26gr Barnes and they were both very accurate and very fast. I havent tried em with the H322 although at some point I will. This is largely due to the fact that they seemed to pass through stuff too easy.

 

All my groups are shot from prone with a bipod.

[Alycidon]

Well I have had a bit of a play around with the 5/35 and some different powders and bullets.

 

The 32gr Nosler BTs were the favoured bullet in the states but I have struggled to get the best performance from them.

 

With the N540 the best load was 34grains and produced a half inch group and a velocity of 4170fps.

 

With the H322 things were a bit better but the bullet/rifle didnt like the hotter loads and that meant that the group opened up to nearly 2". However at 30 and 31gr it gave half inch groups and velocities up around the 4200 mark.

 

The 32 gr sierra bullets I tried gave similar performance to the Nosler.

 

The winner for accuracy is the Vmax 32 grainers.

 

 

This is the best at 32gr powder and nearly 4400fps, the one below resulted in a slightly wider group and a stiff bolt so I think we will leave that alone!!

 

This was almost 4600fps which is the claim made from the US so that stacks up.

 

I have tried 26gr Barnes and they were both very accurate and very fast. I havent tried em with the H322 although at some point I will. This is largely due to the fact that they seemed to pass through stuff too easy.

 

All my groups are shot from prone with a bipod.

 

 

Looks like its going well. Suggest that you also give the 39gr SBks a whirl along with some Berger 50s. If you download it to 3500 ( about 29.5gr N150 in my rifle) then it shoots very very smoothly.

 

A