neck sizing and brass weight

[triggersqueezer]

hi all

couple of questions if i normally full length size and i decide to neck size am i correct that the preasure may be less and as a result my pet load may be affected.

 

i lost 125 fps today through the chrono the only things different were i neck sized and started a new batch of rl 15.

 

also i weight sorted my brass and found that the lighter brass was slower ( i presume thinner walls less preasure) wich would tie in with the neck sizing thing.

 

i shoot a 204 tikka

your thoughts would be appreciated.

[triggersqueezer]

thyankyou for the reply but i have had .25 at 100 but have found its at 2 - 300 that the group opens if not careful eg because when i neck sized i lost 125 fps that made a 1.25 moa error at 300 as opposed to last time i full length sized.in short my ballistic table is useless because i neck sized .that is my question.i had a fps difference of 240 fps if my brass weighed 99 or 96 grns trust me it did my group no favors at range.like yourself i am learning and by no means are my findings concrete but just my findings.thankyou for your help

 

 

mike

[triggersqueezer]

here you but it was sweet till i neck sized 5 shot groups 1.4 at 200 4 out of five in .70 ish. 1.8 at 300 again a flyer spoiled it.i know there is better to be had but i was getting there .i just wanted confermation that my findings were ok.that beig the case i will weight sort and full length .at 3450 fps it grouped a treat compared to today when the slower fps seemed to open them up i lined myself with the wind. the shots were shot gunned not in planes.its like your pet load delivers 3500 so if you use less powder it delivers 3200 and groups open.

[1967spud]

it could that the neck tension you have given your cases may give an increased pressure spike

 

what neck bushing did you use

 

whats your overall neck size of a loaded round and a fired round?

[flyingfisherman]

mike i think your theory is correct and also spud has a very good point.

 

1: Slightly different case volume ( F/L vs Neck) could make the velocity difference, logical anyways although i cant give a definitive answer

2: If you have changed from F/L sizing to Neck, i assume you have changed die? If your not using bushing dies then the neck tension may be different giving you less pressure therefore less speed..

 

I will be interested to see your findings..

 

+1 on spud, do you use bushing dies?

[1967spud]

i do use them but in wilson dies

[triggersqueezer]

hi chaps sorry nodded off for a bit all that fresh air.i am in the process of changing to a bushing die to play with neck tension to try and eradicate those flyers.the die is sat on my bench just waiting for the bushings .i am informed that is when my neck turning will pay off.with regards case weight i found

 

case weight 97.5 three shots 3232 fps 3180 fps 3163 fps

case weight 98.7 three shots 3316 fps 3352 fps 3283 fps

 

after that i picked my 2 extreme bullets w99 shot 3397 fps w 96 shot 3163 fps

 

this is just my first test but looks like heavier shoots faster.wich would suggest case volume has a big part to play wich would also back up the neck die theory.could be coincidence.

 

my rifle is a tikka t3 varmint with a border barrel 1 in 11 twist shooting 40 grn bergers wich is why i said i was getting there untill a few weeks ago i was using v max wich did not perform well at longer range.

 

if this wind ever stops i will be back out.

thanks guys for your time

[triggersqueezer]

I had a Tikka T3 Super Varmint in .243Win it was the most accurate (Tight Grouping Rifle) that I have ever had.

 

.its great now but it shot the 40s at 3 " the 32s at 1.5" and 26 grn var at 1" with the factory barrel so i was not impressed when i could give it a competition with a rimfire. getting there now slowly i started re loading thanks to this rifle . i have had to earn every bit of accuracy but i love it.in fairness my reloading was poor at first so alot was me not the rifle that said its funny how my reloading got alot better with a new barrel.i sat on the net each night whilst waiting for my toy back.sulk sulk

[Tony.H]

.its great now but it shot the 40s at 3 " the 32s at 1.5" and 26 grn var at 1" with the factory barrel so i was not impressed when i could give it a competition with a rimfire. getting there now slowly i started re loading thanks to this rifle . i have had to earn every bit of accuracy but i love it.in fairness my reloading was poor at first so alot was me not the rifle that said its funny how my reloading got alot better with a new barrel.i sat on the net each night whilst waiting for my toy back.sulk sulk

 

the heavier brass just has thicker wall, so less case capacity giving highier pressure thus more fps.

if you weigh your empty cases then fill with water and weigh the cases again you will see the case capacity..

what length barrel? what powder? and how much powder? is it the 40 grs you are talking about?

 

tony

[triggersqueezer]

hi tony

rl 15 shooting berg 40s 22" barrel . i have no problem with things changing as long as i know how to mend it.its all a learning curve and i love it.the difference just took me by supprise how big the difference was.now i know i can adjust to get my pet load back on line.last time i will purchase brass that is not weight sorted.i may as well throw half mine in the bin or mark them as 150 yrd max . i understand why my ballistic chart was sometimes slightly off now.the amount of times i have clipped or just missed a long range crow and been left scratching my head.i'm sure i will be dead long before i master this sport.

[Tony.H]

hi tony

rl 15 shooting berg 40s 22" barrel . i have no problem with things changing as long as i know how to mend it.its all a learning curve and i love it.the difference just took me by supprise how big the difference was.now i know i can adjust to get my pet load back on line.last time i will purchase brass that is not weight sorted.i may as well throw half mine in the bin or mark them as 150 yrd max . i understand why my ballistic chart was sometimes slightly off now.the amount of times i have clipped or just missed a long range crow and been left scratching my head.i'm sure i will be dead long before i master this sport.

 

 

what your oal, and grs of re 15= fps?

[Tony.H]

hi tony

rl 15 shooting berg 40s 22" barrel . i have no problem with things changing as long as i know how to mend it.its all a learning curve and i love it.the difference just took me by supprise how big the difference was.now i know i can adjust to get my pet load back on line.last time i will purchase brass that is not weight sorted.i may as well throw half mine in the bin or mark them as 150 yrd max . i understand why my ballistic chart was sometimes slightly off now.the amount of times i have clipped or just missed a long range crow and been left scratching my head.i'm sure i will be dead long before i master this sport.

 

 

what your oal, and grs of re 15= fps?

[triggersqueezer]

what your oal, and grs of re 15= fps?

 

sorry tony ' this is the fist chance i have had to reply oal is 1.8710 and 27.2 grns of rl 15.i am off to wales tommorow til sat pm so please don't think i am rude if i don't get straight back.the new pot of rl15 i just opened seems to weigh more so i had to adjust my charger.this could of course be whats wrong.will get out a.s.a.p bloody winter nights.do they even make an artificial light chrono.thanks mike

[Tony.H]

sorry tony ' this is the fist chance i have had to reply oal is 1.8710 and 27.2 grns of rl 15.i am off to wales tommorow til sat pm so please don't think i am rude if i don't get straight back.the new pot of rl15 i just opened seems to weigh more so i had to adjust my charger.this could of course be whats wrong.will get out a.s.a.p bloody winter nights.do they even make an artificial light chrono.thanks mike

 

 

sorry mate ment length of cartridge over all?

i trim my cases to 1.840 and load to 2.260 in my .204

[triggersqueezer]

sorry tony 1.8380 case.mine likes the jump if i seat further out groups open.

[duey]

In my experiance I have found that case weight has less of an effect than other factors when reloading unless you are shooting benchrest or extream distance

 

If you are wanting to only neck size I would suggest that you also neck turn to remove high spots in the brass that will effect neck tension

 

Also I would suggest that you aquire a primer pocket uniformer and flash hole deburrer both of which will improve consistancy from round to round more than case weight

 

If you want to weigh cases, its best to buy best quality brass, in quantity, lapua or nosler custom brass, and sort into groups of same weight, within 1 grain. You should find that you will get sufficient numbers of brass around the same weight to be able to achieve your aim of consistancy within a given group of bullets

 

reloading can get very very anal

 

good luck

 

Ian

[triggersqueezer]

yep i allready uniform primer pockets de burr neck turn ect i don't want to just neck size.happy to full size.wieghing cases is just anouther tick box that i thought people would find interesting.you say its not important wich is only true if you buy brass that is weight sorted outherwise there is over a 200 fps difference wich if you are using a ballistic table can not be ignored.cheers mike

[Tony.H]

yep i allready uniform primer pockets de burr neck turn ect i don't want to just neck size.happy to full size.wieghing cases is just anouther tick box that i thought people would find interesting.you say its not important wich is only true if you buy brass that is weight sorted outherwise there is over a 200 fps difference wich if you are using a ballistic table can not be ignored.cheers mike

 

i think you should do what makes you happy and gives you confidence in your set up,i only fl size if its to tight in the chamber, i remove my firing pin and put the fired case in and if the bolt resists, more than a lite touch i fl resize, if its smooth i neck size, and knock the shoulder back usually 1-2 thou, its just so i dont work the brass to much, then anneal after 4-5 times, i would like the nico concentricity gauge but last time i looked they were no cheap, so will wait, i only use mine for fox and vermin and ground game, no target, but find it theaputic to go through the process of cleaning deburing sizing ect...

 

 

tony

[baldie]

You are using reloder 15 ?

 

One of the worst powders there is for batch to batch consistency.

 

By 3 or 4 tubs and mix the lot together in a big bowl, then put it back in the tubs. That will do away with the inconsistency.

[duey]

well that makes more sence to me as found case weight making that amount of FPS differance hard to understand

 

not used RL15 myself as I tend to stick with varget or Vhit powder

[triggersqueezer]

well guys i went out today and its the powder not the re sizing that lost the speed now the max for rl15 with a 40grn bullet is 27.3 my pet load was 27.2 my groups seemed to have opened slightly still ten shots on a 2p at 100.acording to the max load data 27.3 should produce 3800 fps my pet load was 27.2 producing 3450 fps.now 27.2 of the new tub produces 3250 fps ish, should i increase the powder to compensate.i tried today 27.4 produced 3317, 27.6 produced 3419 ,27.8 produced 3374 ??? if you do the maths i would need to exceed the max load greatly to achieve the same pace i was getting which would i presume get my accuracy back.is fps a good indicator of pressure ?

[Tony.H]

well guys i went out today and its the powder not the re sizing that lost the speed now the max for rl15 with a 40grn bullet is 27.3 my pet load was 27.2 my groups seemed to have opened slightly still ten shots on a 2p at 100.acording to the max load data 27.3 should produce 3800 fps my pet load was 27.2 producing 3450 fps.now 27.2 of the new tub produces 3250 fps ish, should i increase the powder to compensate.i tried today 27.4 produced 3317, 27.6 produced 3419 ,27.8 produced 3374 ??? if you do the maths i would need to exceed the max load greatly to achieve the same pace i was getting which would i presume get my accuracy back.is fps a good indicator of pressure ?

 

accuracy first not fps

and the thing that will show you pressure is your primer.

try a different powder i would go re10x....

 

 

 

tony

[Tony.H]

well guys i went out today and its the powder not the re sizing that lost the speed now the max for rl15 with a 40grn bullet is 27.3 my pet load was 27.2 my groups seemed to have opened slightly still ten shots on a 2p at 100.acording to the max load data 27.3 should produce 3800 fps my pet load was 27.2 producing 3450 fps.now 27.2 of the new tub produces 3250 fps ish, should i increase the powder to compensate.i tried today 27.4 produced 3317, 27.6 produced 3419 ,27.8 produced 3374 ??? if you do the maths i would need to exceed the max load greatly to achieve the same pace i was getting which would i presume get my accuracy back.is fps a good indicator of pressure ?

i just put your info in quickload and it says that 27.2 of re 15 should give you .3454fps..

[triggersqueezer]

i just put your info in quickload and it says that 27.2 of re 15 should give you .3454fps..

 

 

thankyou,thats what i was getting before i opened this new tub ???? lost about 200 fps.the powder itself weighs more per grain i had to adjust my powder charger as soon as i started using it and there is visibily less in the case.

[Tony.H]

thankyou,thats what i was getting before i opened this new tub ???? lost about 200 fps.the powder itself weighs more per grain i had to adjust my powder charger as soon as i started using it and there is visibily less in the case.

i dont know what to tell you about that, but i would change to re-10x its seems to come out at better performance, case fill and amount brunt.

do you know anyone near you who has some different powders you could try?