brown dog Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Following my Bisley underpowered load ‘debacle’; just had a chance to get out and see if I could speed the load up. Managed to forget to take my cheekpiece . Improvise, adapt, overcome : Reloader15 and 123 scenars, CCI 450s. Fired in a round robin; 1 shot at each charge weight 36.1, 37.1 and 37.5 and then repeat. 36.1 (the load we stumbled upon at Bisley) is just sensational –and unfortunately, just slow. (Fired at a deliberate ‘up’ correction’ in order not to foul the aiming points). Strikes me that 36.1 is a ‘node’ and looking left to right, I’m walking through an area of barrel movement and back towards a node; I suspect I have to go a little bit higher than 37.5 to get to it. zeroed the 37.5 load, but I’m going to have to tweak a bit higher to see if I can get the group back in as per 36.1. Still, I’m bloody pleased; 3 different try-out loads and all comfortably sub-0.5MOA. Big smile! A couple of gratuitous 'sitting in a field pleased with my rifle pics' the Anglo brake is awesome -exactly what a brake should be to my way of thinking, and the centre-hole is calibre specific (as opposed to any size as long as it's 338); and the spiked foot versapod with lockable everything is waaay better than I expected.. I think I might be in danger of becoming another 6.5x47 zealot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967spud Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 nice shooting there bd just 1 qyestion what seating depth/ jump have you got there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967spud Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 there is another higher node at 38.2 grains giving you 2975 fps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted July 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 nice shooting there bd just 1 qyestion what seating depth/ jump have you got there? Not a clue! Set OAL to look the same as one of Elwood's rounds at Bisley and it just worked straight off. 67.92mm OAL (haven't got a 6.5 stoney point ogive jobby yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted July 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 there is another higher node at 38.2 grains giving you 2975 fps Mark, how did you work out where the next node'll be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967spud Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 matt i found it on quickload but that is for factory seating depths , so if yours is slightly different i.e. more/less pressure and case volume - the node will slightly change i would try that load as long as you dont see pressure signs leading up to it and try it with the scenars 10 thou off the lands you should never take some body elses seating depth as gospel for your own rifle as no two chambers are the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Be careful using reloder 15 at maximum loads in this warm weather Matt, its very temperature sensitive, and also can vary significantly from tub to tub. So much so, that the load should always be rechecked when fresh powder is bought. Personally i wont use it in anything, preffering Varget, which is very temperature INsensitive, Vhit 140, or Vhit 540. All of which work well in 6.5x47. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furrybean Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 spud, am I missing something but how do you know where the second node is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted July 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Mark, When I've got loads at this OAL doing sub 0.25; I think there's no fannying with seating depth to be done. It works. Lucky? Yes. But 'Not broke, don't fix' and 'product not process' QED. I don't understand how you're calculating nodes? How are you telling quikload my particular barrel's harmonics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967spud Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Mark, When I've got loads at this OAL doing sub 0.25; I think there's no fannying with seating depth to be done. It works. Lucky? Yes. But 'Not broke, don't fix' and 'product not process' QED. I don't understand how you're calculating nodes? How are you telling quikload my particular barrel's harmonics? i was working with the default barrel config quickload states , after relooking at this , the next node may not be suitable for any particular rifle i would ignore that for now unless you send me your specifics and ill run it in quick load for you if you like but i think you ql from memoory matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LONG RANGE CAPT Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 BD, It's shooting well. - keep going with 37.5 load. Thought I'd add a bit of info from some testing this last week. Darrel and I popped up to North Wales this week to test out both our 6.5x47's using 123 gr Senar's, CCI 450's, Lapua Brass, 37.5's RL 15. Mine an AE MK II and Darrel's a AW, both with Border Barrels. One worthy point of note, my reloading is done on mass with a 'charge master' and Darrel's is done precisely with balance scales. Both Rifles are shooting in the 0.2's but the following data was collected:- My Chrono data:- 1. 2916 2. 2909 3. 2933 4. 2929 5. 2923 Average = 2922 Standard Deviation = 9 ES = 24 Darrel's Chrono data:- 1. 2898 2. 2913 3. 2913 4. 2912 5. 2910 Average = 2912 Standard Deviation = 1 ES = 9 Moral of the story - for greater accuracy use a balance beam scale. Regards Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 BD- regarding the different groups shown. Statistically speaking, your sample is way too small to draw any solid conclusions other than it's basically an accurate rifle. If you shot five five-shot groups, it's quite possible the heavier load could prove just as good (or even better) than the light one-holer. In any event, you're not far from a satisfactory conclusion Chris-NZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted July 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Chris, I know what you mean, but your methodology would have had me firing 75rds before I could decide which avenue to explore... (and why is it that when talking about 3 shot groups, the 5-shot advocates always suppose they're only seeing the middle two SD of the circular error, and firing another 2 rounds means they see the whole population? Which is better 30 shots collected in 10 groups or 30 shots collected in 6 groups? ) Anyway; 9 shots of 37.5 averaged 0.38MOA (data collected in 3s ! ). That's enough for me to run with it for the moment, the sweat was running down my nose in the sun this morning so where the line lay between 'testing load' and 'testing Matt' was a little blurred, but my intuition is that I think the charge weight needs tweaking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted July 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 My Chrono data:- 1. 2916 2. 2909 3. 2933 4. 2929 5. 2923 Average = 2922 Standard Deviation = 9 ES = 24 Darrel's Chrono data:- 1. 2898 2. 2913 3. 2913 4. 2912 5. 2910 Average = 2912 Standard Deviation = 1 ES = 9 Moral of the story - for greater accuracy use a balance beam scale. Regards Rob Impressive (you must have a typo in Darrel's data, the ES there is 15) They seem hugely fast - wasn't able to chrono today so don't know what I was getting; I'll be very pleased if it's in that sort of parish (you 100% you've got a border on the AE? AI generally fit Lothars on their production runs; I have a Lothar on this gat). I'm going to stick on 37.5 as a 'known' until I get another chance to do some 100m load plinking and explore the effect of creeping the weight up a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LONG RANGE CAPT Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Impressive (you must have a typo in Darrel's data, the ES there is 15) They seem hugely fast - wasn't able to chrono today so don't know what I was getting; I'll be very pleased if it's in that sort of parish (you 100% you've got a border on the AE? AI generally fit Lothars on their production runs; I have a Lothar on this gat). I'm going to stick on 37.5 as a 'known' until I get another chance to do some 100m load plinking and explore the effect of creeping the weight up a little. Excuse the ES typo, Both Barrels are Border Archer barrels - both same spec fluted, they in addition are shot with Jet Z Compact mods. Be interesting to see if the charts you did, shoot the same for your 6.5x47. In addition Darrel shot a .4 .3 .3 .3 .3 on Saturday at Diggle in the comp with agg of .381 And won the small group comp. Regards Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted July 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Be interesting to see if the charts you did, shoot the same as 6.5x47. Have you got a 6.5 chart for the 123 scenar at that MV? If not let me know and I'll update them when I'm sorting mine out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LONG RANGE CAPT Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Cheers, Got one for a AV of 2915 fps you sorted a while back and its spot on at every range. Kind Regards Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Chris, I know what you mean, but your methodology would have had me firing 75rds before I could decide ... Yeh, know what you mean BD but I'd never draw -any- conclusions without at least two five-shot groups. The general level of accuracy isn't in doubt but if you decide to run with the "best" group, a couple of extra five-shot groups with that load isn't burning off too many components. For the serious target boys, it'd be false economy not to. Chris-NZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Matt, The 37.5 seems to be one of the ideal loads (e.g. Fed Gold Medal 308)and the groupd was not exactly 'shabby' You have the cards for my load/results based around: Rifle; Sentinel 6.5x47 Lapua, scope height 1.945 CL to CL of bore, 25" 5C Bartlien barrel Load: 123g Lapua Scanar Lapua brass (both new and once fired) CCI 450 mag primer 37.5g R15 powder. Chrono results 2880 fps, @ 14.2 deg.C and 1019.2 mb (atmos pressure cal rel to sea level). Barrel dirty and warm. Other info in mils for same load all relative to 100 yard zero 200 yards +0.4 13.8 deg.C, 1011.3 mb 300 yards +1.0 14.9 deg.C 1010.6 mb 500 yards +2.6 16.6 deg.C 1009.0 mb 600 yards +3.6 20.0 deg.C 1007.6 mb This ran single digit ES's in my rifle (beam scale and trickler loading technique BTW). As my groups are normally 5 shot a calculated SD, IMHO, has no relevance. Load some 37.5's for next week and you're GTG Cheers Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxing2night Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Hi Matt,, Glad that you have come over to the dark side 37.5g of re loader 15 was my starting load??, very tight groups and as Terry says the fps is around 2890, so not to slow My comp load is one that i worked up to and stuck with for the last year?? ukbra small group at 600yrds of 2.225 small group at 300 of .4 so i entered it in a 100yrd comp on Saturday???? warm up group was .579,, oh shite i need better than that???? Match 1 = .431 Match 2 = .381 four in one hole one just out Match 3 = .312 patch for small group Match 4 = .395 Match 5 = .386 Load used was 38.5 re15, 123 scenars, cci450 primer, oal 2.130 (please work up slowly)at 2914 fps,,, very hot weather on the day 23c,,, bullets were stored in the shade???? Matt, the calibre just wants to shoot, there's no doubt about it,,,, i found that the difference between 37.5 and 38.5 was one moa at 550yrds (37.5 needed one more moa) 38.5 works in my rifle but it blows primers in ROBS?????? 41.8g of H 4350 also shot some of the best groups that the rifle as ever shot,, but the velocity was not as good???? All of my loads were chrono over an oehler chrono,,,, Did try one of them cheap 150 pound Jobie's,, and that told me that my loads were at 3000 fps,, but the load would not match up to my charts???? but as soon as i put in 2914 fps bingo!!! spot on the money If you update your carts would you send me a copy???? All the best, Darrel PS. I like that muzzel brake??? could you pm me the price please?? if you dont mined,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skany Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 looking very good at 37.5 there matt! id try loading the coal 20tho longer & making u dont have land contact & take a hand press into the field & reduce to 20tho shorter then u are in stages! Id like to know where the lands were myself tho! how repeatable are those groups at 37.5? out of intrest Ive found the charge master im using more acurate then both my rcbs 502s & 505 scale that i have acses to by the way altho i have read that some seems to have problems! cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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