Re-barrel

[Mossy-dog]

Thought about this before but recently i feel like having just a .22-250 limits me slightly.

 

Got an M595, sporter barrel, wood stock, .22-250 and a 1/2UNF T8 and up here we are right enough up to roe which is primarily what I have access to. However down at home (in England) we have roe and fallow and up here i have had a few asked to the reds.

 

I have a 6.5x55 on my ticket that isnt filled so i could feasibly just go that route but then i would need another scope etc and i like the Tikka i have hence the thoughts on re-barreling.

 

Decision is what options do i have any what are the likely costs, i don't reload and i'm not really planning on starting so i am looking for a medium calibre to do foxes, crows, roe, munties, fallow and occasionally a red or two.

 

Initial on my list would be a .243 with a slightly longer and slightly thicker barrel than the sporter on there but not too heavy (stock might need a bit of fettling but id like to keep it if possible) and a twist to shoot 100 ish grain bullets when required.

 

I don't really want to go too big because the larger stuff is not regular (hence the reluctance to put together a full outfit).

 

What other options might i have and where might i get a barrel put on for reasonable money (Callum Fergusson is only just up the road but his work is excellent and comes with the associated price tag)

 

Thanks

Dan

 

 

[srvet]

243 or 260 seem the logical choices. I believe around £700 is about right

[richard griffith]

If you are not a reloader and want to keep the calibre reasonably light then you are restricted with a short action Tikka-6x55 is a long action.If you were to reload then this opens up more possibilities such as 6mmbr Lapua 6.5x47etc.Is the 260 too big as already mentioned a real contender.As regards rebarrel about £700 is a ball park figure.Cant figure out if you are in North Wales that Callum is just up the road in Aberdeenshire!!!Other options for you, all with good track records Baldie on this forum Brockand Norris North Midlands or Steve Kershaw in Howden Yorkshire.Good luck.Richard.

[Scotch_egg]

In all honesty don't bother with a re-barrel. Just buy a Tikka T3 in .243 sell your .22-250 to recoup some of the outlay.

[Big Al]

I think you have got it right first time, .243 will do everything you want and factory ammo is plentiful and offers ammo to suit any budget. Pretty much every other caliber will have compromises in terms of either ammo availability/cost or not fitting the short 595 action.

 

Ive been doing some heavy sporter profiles recently on Sako's and Tikka's that give a bit more meat on the barrel towards the muzzle without them becoming too muzzle heavy. Im happy to profile barrels to whatever spec required.

 

http://ukvarminting.com/forums/topic/35165-sako-75-65x47-lapua/

[Will6x47]

I would be inclined to agree with scotch egg and just get a tikka t3 unless your 595 has a lot of sentimental value. I have just had a rifle re barreled by Callum and it was 1050 including screw cutting. The work is first class but if you can buy a t3 for about the same money it comes down to how much you like your old rifle. I'm not a fan of the t3 personally but they do shoot really well for a factory rifle.

[Mossy-dog]

My 595 is one that will be staying with me as it was passed on from a friend, hence the re-barrel rather than the replacement.

 

Leaning towards a ,243 fast twist i think.

 

Dan

 

Thought i had changed the location, live up in Aberdeenshire now.

 

[Mossy-dog]

Repeat post

[Will6x47]

Well I can recommend Callum as his work has always been spot on. He will give you good advice on what will best suit your needs. Happy hunting.

[Tikka4Sika]

My 595 is one that will be staying with me as it was passed on from a friend, hence the re-barrel rather than the replacement.

 

Leaning towards a ,243 fast twist i think.

 

Dan

 

Thought i had changed the location, live up in Aberdeenshire now.

 

What did you go for ? IMHO I`d say .243 if you dont reload and .260 if you do , remember the .243 really is on its limits for Reds and some ghillies / estates wont even allow .243 for Reds.

[MJR]

I think you need to talk to more stalkers Tikka, I know several who use 243 due to its versatility.

[snakeman]

I'm friendly with two old boys who for the past 25yrs have been on a 'stalk' each year to the Highlands to shoot reds. (I invert the word 'stalk' because I personally don't see what they refer to as 'stalking' is actually stalking; they are literary driven to where the deer are fully visible and grazing via quadbike to no further than 150yds away from the deer - we've had many a banter about this! )

 

They both use their "old and trusted" Parker Hale's ....in .243

[Tikka4Sika]

I stand by what I`ve said about the 243 ,its only good enough for Reds in ideal conditions ,it does not guarantee clean kill unless shot placement is absolutely bang on and the range is not in excess of 200yds , look at the figures and see how the energy drops off, very few deer managers use the .243 and it came about as a minimum due to authorities thinking bigger calibres posed a bigger risk to public safety.

[gbal]

The 243 is indeed a versatile red deer rifle...as snakeman testifies,it is fairly reliable for a couple of shots annually on semi tame bambi deer,and at ranges that can vary all the way from 100-150 yards.,even 175y. More in skilled professional hands,as in a winter hind cull,if the shooter can place 100g bullets with precision.

 

It is also a very fine varminter-I have/had two -one a never fail roe reaper,and the other an excellent varminter-and it is still one of my alltime favourites out to 350 y.These days more 500y + on gongs-versatile-indeed,for those purposes shoots almost as well as it did 4000 rounds ago...though it won't shoot 1/4moa ,as it once did.

 

The cartridge is just terrific with a new lease of life with 58g varmint bullets,there isn't much better,even in the more exotica,or more UK species versatile. With a fast twist barrel and 115 Dtacs is a competent,but not competitive,1000 y "happy to take part decently,but not win the competition" cartridge. Versatile.

One snag is that the distance performance just has to have the very fast twist barrelf for the cartridge to do !000y. But really,you'll need two rifles-and one will need a custom barrel -unless you can live with a Ruger 7.7 twst,and why not?

Great on mid range gongs-500y say- easy and not expensive to reload,modest recoil/performance ratio ;very wide choice of comercial ammo,components-versatile and not fussy.What's not to like??

It really is one of my favourites....has been for almost fifty years.

 

But it's a barely adequate big red beastie cartridge,just making legal minimum.There are far better tools for that job,under normal conditions and average 'stalkers',even within 225 yards. A cartridge issue,not Parker Hale-it has everything except the decisive energy delivery-cartridge,not rifle limitation.

 

gbal

[snakeman]

A cartridge issue,not Parker Hale-it has everything except the decisive energy delivery-cartridge,not rifle limitation.

 

gbal

 

 

Indeed. And the two rifles I refer to are in the sweetest of conditions, one of which I've offered to buy on a number of occasions - not for sale!

 

An interesting list would be to have all the estates/grounds in the UK (not just Scotland) which allows .243 for stalking, private and public, because the ones I know of permit this calibre. However, given a choice it would be .308, simply because I can and, it gives a wider margin for error

 

But for versatility it's hard to beat IMO and, if that calibre was the only thing I had at hand, and at 150yds, I wouldn't be put off by the naysayers who repeatedly say the .243 isn't enough gun for reds.

 

If I wasn't permitted to shoot a red with a .243 I wouldn't be on the land.

[MJR]

Tikka, the op was asking for a versatile calibre for roe and fallow with the occasional invite for reds and is looking for a medium calibre for vermin also. .243 suits that criteria perfectly.

No calibre 'guarantees' a clean kill, it's all about shot placement and use of the correct bullet for the job. I would agree a bigger calibre delivers more energy but their should be no reliance on that over accuracy and shot placement.

[Will6x47]

The .243 is a good all round deer calibre with the exception of really big red stags in the rut. As a professional deer manager I have seen quite a few different calibres used on red deer and the light recoil of the.243 does help with shot placement. If red stags were going to be a regular quarry I would say that a slightly bigger cartridge be considered but for the use you have stated I think the 243 sounds ideal. I use a 7-08 but had a 243 for a long time before that. The only reason I prefer the bigger calibre is for inexperienced clients at stag time.

[Tikka4Sika]

Tikka, the op was asking for a versatile calibre for roe and fallow with the occasional invite for reds and is looking for a medium calibre for vermin also. .243 suits that criteria perfectly.

No calibre 'guarantees' a clean kill, it's all about shot placement and use of the correct bullet for the job. I would agree a bigger calibre delivers more energy but their should be no reliance on that over accuracy and shot placement.

You`ll find most deer managers think the .243 is sufficient but dont actually use them on Red, the other issue with .243 is when 20" or less barrels are used they quite often dont meet legal requirements.

 

England and Wales

For Red a minimum calibre of .240 and minimum muzzle energy of 1,700 foot pounds is the legal requirement.

Scotland

For Red the bullet must weigh at least 100 grains AND have a minimum muzzle velocity of 2,450 feet per second AND a minimum muzzle energy of 1,750 foot pounds

 

The .243 is a good all round deer calibre with the exception of really big red stags in the rut. As a professional deer manager I have seen quite a few different calibres used on red deer and the light recoil of the.243 does help with shot placement. If red stags were going to be a regular quarry I would say that a slightly bigger cartridge be considered but for the use you have stated I think the 243 sounds ideal. I use a 7-08 but had a 243 for a long time before that. The only reason I prefer the bigger calibre is for inexperienced clients at stag time.

Agree with that , I think 260 Rem would be a best minimum for Reds.

.

[Kalahari]

Seems to me, you have a slot for a 6.5 x 55 and this is a pretty good calibre, look on the web and you will probably be able to get one for less than the cost of a re-barrel.

 

Just my 2p worth.

 

David.

[Akeld]

You'll need new mags in the 595 if you switch to .243 from .22-250

[gbal]

We mostly seem to agree that the 243 is a bit of a compromise for the more demanding of red deer stalking.Yes,it can legally be used,yes it can be ok with inexperienced shooters...BUT....there are better options-the issue of course is compromise-some who "stalk" or shoot big reds do so 'but occasionally-'commercially'-money to the estate, but rarely-their once a year 'safari'.

Some used to come from ....abroad ...to do so...same issue....margin for error...?

I don't think we should "rely" (nor do responsible professionals) on anything per se,but if there is a doubt about competence,a better cartridge is more 'insurance'...the issue then is...can the shooter handle a less familiar cartridge...ie more recoil etc...that has no absolute answer,and it is unfortunate that this question ever arises.

I know full well that 'figures' are not decisive for many-and indeed these ones can be nothing other than comparative but recoil for 243w is 1.25;260R is 1.73,: 7-08 is1.80;and 308 is 1.95....... so there is a fair increase in this modest family of cartridges on the same case basically. (270w is 1.82;7rem mag is 2.06;30-06 is 2.19 ).

 

Though it might seem 'conservative' to some,here is Craig Boddington-perhaps the most experienced and savvy hunter curently passing on his experience-which is very like that of previous hiunters who understood realities of ballistics,shooter imperfections,and Quarry resistance to the shooters imperfect will:

 

"Many of us have no business shooting beyond 200yards no matter what the conditions. A few,perhaps very few,on a calm day with plenty of time for set up,can sometimes double that,with some confidence"...and he added sensible prescriptions to the cartridges so used. 243 was not one of those he recommended (think more fast 6.5,and 7mms (30s-with the proviso that shooting well with increasing recoil was not a given at all-especially for the hotter 30s). Warren Page agreed,a generation earlier-heck,who did not?Who does not?

 

gbal

[MJR]

Tikka, thanks but I'm sure we are all responsible riflemen and well aware of the legal aspects. My .243 by the way, according to quickload which predicts remarkably accurate muzzle velocity for both 100gn and 105gn loads I shoot predicts 1990 +ft lbs for both. The 105's are Amax so I don't use them whilst Deer Stalking. I'm not saying .243 is ideal for Large Reds, but would be a good match for the OPs situation and his intended variety of uses.

[snakeman]

the other issue with .243 is when 20" or less barrels are used they quite often dont meet legal requirements.

 

 

 

This caveat rests entirely with the reloader who can, and would develop a load to meet those minimum requirements and, I'd like to think that if a Firearms Dept have deemed someone responsible enough to hold a ticket, that person would also be responsible enough to develop a load with at least the minimum necessary energy required, for whatever 'calibre for quarry'

[Tikka4Sika]

 

This caveat rests entirely with the reloader who can, and would develop a load to meet those minimum requirements and, I'd like to think that if a Firearms Dept have deemed someone responsible enough to hold a ticket, that person would also be responsible enough to develop a load with at least the minimum necessary energy required, for whatever 'calibre for quarry'

Thats all very good assuming you dont want to shoot on Forestry Commission ground.

[MJR]

OK, lets stay on topic and respect the OP's original post.

 

No one mentioned short barrels or forestry commission land so let stop introducing variables to support ones argument and instead concentrate on the original post....

 

For a dual purpose varmint and Deer Stalker the 243. is a very good option. With the option to re barrel to a faster twist its even better. Yes there are better calibres for specific uses but few are as versatile with the possible exception of the latest 6.5's. Shortly someone will say the .243 is a barrel burner. Well yes it is. So what? I have 1400 + rounds on mine (595 with a 1 in 8 cut Border barrel) and its still a solid 1/2moa rifle. When it finally poops i'll re barrel and enjoy.