Recommended scope for AI AT

[geek]

Dear all,

 

Advice sought from those with much more experience than myself.

 

I have just ordered an AI AT with the following specification (collect in a couple of weeks): .308 26" barrel, folding Stock (Green), tactical muzzle brake.

 

The rifle will be used as a general purpose ‘do it all' .308 – target, tactical rifle / F class competitions (its the taking part that counts) at Diggle and Rossendale and at ranges from 100 yards – 1000 yards.

 

Whilst almost everyone wants an S&B PMII (myself included), new they are outside my budget: therefore what would you recommend secondhand S&B (if one can be found), Nightforce, etc.

 

No problem with buying secondhand.

 

Thank you

 

From the shop today, just waiting for the 'bits' to arrive before I can pick it up.

[MrCetrizine]

If you can't find a used S&B in your price range then Sightron.

[geek]

Where I am purchasing my AI, they have offered a secondhand Nightforce for £900, similar to this, not sure yet of full specification or reticle - is this a good deal for a suitable scope?

 

http://nightforceoptics.com/military/nxs/5-5-22x56-nxs-riflescope/

 

Nightforce does seem a bit marmite - some like and others don't.

[Ronin]

Nothing wrong with Nightforce though the optics are not (with my eyes) up to European standards.

 

Personally id hold out for a used 4-16 PM 11 though that is no help to you "now"

 

 

They do come up.

 

 

Khales would be an alternative brand id consider, they are slightly cheaper than Schmidt.

 

If it was me, id find the money to get what you want - don't forget you;ll need rings and get them as low as possible to have the objective bell as close to the barrel as possible, without touching of course.

[CZ Varminter]

Vortex Razor HD take a look thought there scopes very good quality.

 

Worth a shout my friend.

 

All the best

CZV

[Shuggy]

Have a read of this. It's the most thorough set of reviews that I've seen online.

 

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/09/19/tactical-scopes-field-test-results-summary/

[gbal]

+1 on Shuggy's review reference. It's excellent-and there is choice-not all equally available in UK though,as well as personal preference -and budget.

Yo have a fine rifle-I would try not to compromise on the scope.I have a few Night Force scopes,all second hand,and rate them highly-though I have not used a top line S&B,they have to be a very fine scope,but at 2 to 3 times the price. You won't be embarrassed at F class etc with a NF-it was the scope a whiles back,and still rates-but check that the reticule on any scope suits you and your useage. Take seriously,too,the review above-I don't find myself shooting in the last 5 minutes of light much with this kind of gear-and absolute brightness etc is very secondary to reticule-have to see it,but fine is better than too thick-eg at 1000y your aim mark might be about the size of an orange-you don't want it completely obscured...and good turrets; the top scopes will be good,but none are more ruggedly dependable than NF-side focus is nice if you are going to shoot variable distances-a whole lot more user desirable than some barely measureable chrono fringe issues...Marmite?- NF is probably prefered among long rangers-especially the higher power models (8-32,and 12-42)-some claim they don't like this much-but ask the serious long rangers-it's nice to have 30x useable.

Sightron are very good scopes for the money,new. But better than a used NF? If it has to be S&B,it's another £1000.You have choices-ignore the marmite ( if it's disliked-it's at the very bottom of the caviar market)-get informed opinion.And the scope that suits you best. Watch out for those pesky 6.5s-the point is really,there are more than one very good choice-so get yours.

 

Gbal.

[geek]

Nothing wrong with Nightforce though the optics are not (with my eyes) up to European standards.

 

Personally id hold out for a used 4-16 PM 11 though that is no help to you "now"

 

 

They do come up.

 

 

Khales would be an alternative brand id consider, they are slightly cheaper than Schmidt.

 

If it was me, id find the money to get what you want - don't forget you;ll need rings and get them as low as possible to have the objective bell as close to the barrel as possible, without touching of course.

 

 

Only 4-16?, For the F T/R and tactical rifle competitions many seem to use minimum of 25x with a lot using the Sightron 32x, with the occasional 40x, 50x and even 60x (March).

I struggled with the 60x March (rented rifle / scope for F T/R) , personally found it too much and had difficulty finding the target at 500 yards

 

[geek]

Can't seem to find my Show your Accuracy International thread so here's what I purchased:

 

Any preferences (and reasons), between an S&B PM II 5x25 and 12x50?

 

 

[Shuggy]

What a fabulous rifle. That's the exact same spec that I'm saving for (but slowly!).

 

5-25 because you can get it in FFP mil/mil. Once you go FFP, you will wonder how you did without it.

[gunnery]

I was up at Diggle Sunday talking to John Dean who imports the Sightron Scopes and he showed me the new Tactical scope just been released lovely scope very well made on parr with the other top range scopes worth having a look at this scope lovely glass £1500

[gazzar15]

Nobody voting for the Meopta ZD 24x ??

Excellent glass, excellent quality and around the £1200 mark new (with IR). More adjustment in a Nightforce but the glass in the Meopta is better than NF .(to my eyes at least)

Not knocking NF ( I have x 2 NXS ) I have also had the big Schmidt, sold it (all my other scopes were moa ) couldn't be bothered with 2 reticle systems. Whilst I loved the quality of the big Schmidt they have doubled the price in the last 5-6 years and are simply not worth the premium over the rest of the quality scopes out there. I have a Meopta ZD and regularly shoot it at 1000 yds plus, it seems sturdy enough and has has stood the punishment of my 338 Lapmag with no issues. Would definately buy another or a target model 24 x Kahles at around £100 dearer as Ronin suggested .

[geek]

What a fabulous rifle. That's the exact same spec that I'm saving for (but slowly!).

 

5-25 because you can get it in FFP mil/mil. Once you go FFP, you will wonder how you did without it.

 

I do understand what you mean - I too saved for quite a while (started last year), then thought 50th Birthday this year so sod it and bought the rifle (now need a scope!!) - it can be expensive this shooting lark

[geek]

I was up at Diggle Sunday talking to John Dean who imports the Sightron Scopes and he showed me the new Tactical scope just been released lovely scope very well made on parr with the other top range scopes worth having a look at this scope lovely glass £1500

 

I too go to Diggle and have looked at the 8-32 Sightron at Fox Firearms, however since I have purchased an AI, there is a nagging voice which says get an S&B.

[gunnery]

 

I too go to Diggle and have looked at the 8-32 Sightron at Fox Firearms, however since I have purchased an AI, there is a nagging voice which says get an S&B.

Look at the new Sightron Tactical scope first before you make a decision superb scope built heavy like the S&B and Nightforce with good turrets

[gbal]

Gunnery,is that the 2.5 to 17 ,as reviewed glowingly good by Richard Utting on you tube?

 

I don't get these low magnifications on 'tactical 308s'-well on anything really;as the use is really 400yards and well out (maybe 1000y) -I don't have (m) any serious scopes that go below 8x,and seldom have feel a need for anything so modest,plenty use up to 25 to 40 x

So what is the rationale for a sub 8x (or 10x-but 2.5/5??) ?I don't need a vast field of view,generally knowing where the target is faurly well,but do need to see rather small targets at distance....

maybe it's just that high mag is technically very demanding,so keep the range modest-but it can't be that simple,can it-NF eg manage pretty well...maybe it's the Euro myopia syndrome,but Sightron are not in that club(the S&B 5-25 is quite excellent ,and is the scope of much choice among serious tactical shooters,but 5x......for what?),that's hand to hand,not even tactical,far less strategic.What am I missing (hopefully not much within 5x range!) :-)

 

gbal

[geek]

Gunnery,is that the 2.5 to 17 ,as reviewed glowingly good by Richard Utting on you tube?

 

I don't get these low magnifications on 'tactical 308s'-well on anything really;as the use is really 400yards and well out (maybe 1000y) -I don't have (m) any serious scopes that go below 8x,and seldom have feel a need for anything so modest,plenty use up to 25 to 40 x

So what is the rationale for a sub 8x (or 10x-but 2.5/5??) ?I don't need a vast field of view,generally knowing where the target is faurly well,but do need to see rather small targets at distance....

maybe it's just that high mag is technically very demanding,so keep the range modest-but it can't be that simple,can it-NF eg manage pretty well...maybe it's the Euro myopia syndrome,but Sightron are not in that club(the S&B 5-25 is quite excellent ,and is the scope of much choice among serious tactical shooters,but 5x......for what?),that's hand to hand,not even tactical,far less strategic.What am I missing (hopefully not much within 5x range!) :-)

 

gbal

 

 

I would appreciate your thoughts on the 5-25 or 12-50 for my AI AT - shooting any comps that I can, tactical rifle, F T/R or McQueens at various distances - 300m - 1000m

[The Gun Pimp]

If you get the 12-50 S&B you won't have any regrets (or money). When you're shooting at 1000 yards and you look through more powerful optics you may wish you'd bought the 12-50. You don't go below 12X for the McQueen.

 

If you do buy an S&B - get the MOA turrets! Unless you were brought up on the metric system.

[gunnery]

 

 

I would appreciate your thoughts on the 5-25 or 12-50 for my AI AT - shooting any comps that I can, tactical rifle, F T/R or McQueens at various distances - 300m - 1000m

this is brand new from sightron something like 50x tactical turrets which just click in no allan screws you would be better giving john a ring at Aimfeild Sports he will explain to you better than me but I was very impressed with the scope

[Gundoc]

Had a look through that Sightron at the weekend. Very nice and clear.

[geek]

If you get the 12-50 S&B you won't have any regrets (or money). When you're shooting at 1000 yards and you look through more powerful optics you may wish you'd bought the 12-50. You don't go below 12X for the McQueen.

 

If you do buy an S&B - get the MOA turrets! Unless you were brought up on the metric system.

 

Thank you, I do appreciate your advice. I don't want to buy the Sightron then wish I had bought an S&B: can only afford to buy once.

 

I do use metric but understand that MOA is more universally used (especially at Diggle)

[The Gun Pimp]

It's not that it's 'more universally used' but the GB F Class target is marked out in half MOA rings - makes sense to use an MOA scope.

 

As a matter of interest - what do you think a S&B will give you over a Sightron? And, why aren't you even talking about a March? If you come to the League Shoot next week it might just open your eyes.

[ds1]

To the OP, I would choose your scope according to the disciplines you want to shoot.......see what the top cats are using Having had most of what is on your list, some general thoughts would be that a well looked after S&B 5-25 PMII or 12-50 if you don't need illumination is never going to be a bad choice. A Khales 6-24i is better value for money but lacks the close focus down to 10m.....if you need it,........and some scopes like my NXS are not in sharp focus at 50 on full mag.

 

I now prefer March for my needs.......and the models are fairly well dedicated to different disciplines and also cover a much wider mag range. Eg, I like 5x for shooting from moving vehicles, 10x for night shoots........and as much mag up to 40x for everything else and spotting shots. Plus s/h March scopes seem very reasonable value.

[AT308]

Geek,

That’s a very nice rifle you have invested in there, I hope you are as happy with it as I am with mine.

I started with the S&B 4X16 PM 2 on mine which is a great scope as everyone knows but at 600 to a 1000 Yards I found it wasn’t enough mag. Yes you can see the target but you will be able to see it more clearly with higher mag.

I am currently shooting with the NF NXS 8-32 which is an advantage at distance and very clear at 1000 yds, you will pick one up second hand for around £800.

The S&Bs are optically slightly better and I think this is due to their lens coating technology but you will never notice this whilst shooting during the day. Different if you are hunting at dusk.

I am looking to try the S&B 12x50 PM 2 which will do everything from the McQueen’s to 1000 yds, and as already mentioned the March 60 powers are used amongst the top scorers but these scopes come at a price.

I will mention my experience as it may save you time and money. Before you buy a Scope mount change to the low profile rail, I am using a 20 moa rail and 20 moa in the mount, no elevation problems at 1000 yds. I would recommend the spuhr one piece mount as they are bomb proof and the rings are canted so you can read your scope turrets without moving your head, level built in.

As you know the NXS is a 30mm tube and the PM 2s are 34mm tube so if you think you might want to end up with the Schmidt go for it ,as its another £300 to change mounts.

If you haven’t done your variation yet you might want to think about adding another barrel as there are a number of calibres suitable with the 308 bolt face that will give you an advantage at 1000 yds. The wind is the killer so when researching this is where to concentrate. Most of all I hope you enjoy owning and shooting one of the best as much as I am.

Regards,

AT308

[geek]

Geek,

That’s a very nice rifle you have invested in there, I hope you are as happy with it as I am with mine.

I started with the S&B 4X16 PM 2 on mine which is a great scope as everyone knows but at 600 to a 1000 Yards I found it wasn’t enough mag. Yes you can see the target but you will be able to see it more clearly with higher mag.

I am currently shooting with the NF NXS 8-32 which is an advantage at distance and very clear at 1000 yds, you will pick one up second hand for around £800.

The S&Bs are optically slightly better and I think this is due to their lens coating technology but you will never notice this whilst shooting during the day. Different if you are hunting at dusk.

I am looking to try the S&B 12x50 PM 2 which will do everything from the McQueen’s to 1000 yds, and as already mentioned the March 60 powers are used amongst the top scorers but these scopes come at a price.

I will mention my experience as it may save you time and money. Before you buy a Scope mount change to the low profile rail, I am using a 20 moa rail no elevation problems at 1000 yds. I would recommend the spuhr one piece mount as they are bomb proof and the rings are canted so you can read your scope turrets without moving your head, level built in.

As you know the NXS is a 30mm tube and the PM 2s are 34mm tube so if you think you might want to end up with the Schmidt go for it ,as its another £300 to change mounts.

If you haven’t done your variation yet you might want to think about adding another barrel as there are a number of calibres suitable with the 308 bolt face that will give you an advantage at 1000 yds. The wind is the killer so when researching this is where to concentrate. Most of all I hope you enjoy owning and shooting one of the best as much as I am.

Regards,

AT308

 

Much appreciated, after reading the responses here and on another forum I am leaning towards ordering the 12-50x56: hopefully order it at the end of this week. Bad news is 6 weeks delivery from S&B:(