Long range deer / varminter.

[Novice]

The 284 is indeed popular in fclass/1000 BR,it's enough but shootable,especially as the Shehane wildcat.It was a failure commercially in the only rifle made for it (win 88 lever),but is still a decent 7mm.It is though no better,as a deer option, than the 280 rem,which is available in factory rifles,let alone the 7 Rem Mag,which is rightly popular with those who (think) they need a bit extra.Factory loadings give the 7Rem Mag about 200 fps advantage,and there is wide choice,including the heavier bullets.A custom rifle will probably improve accuracy-though none of these has an inherent sporting rifle accuracy problem,and a longer barrel might just about bring the others up to par with a standard (24 inch) 7 Rem Mag.The realistic step up is something like the 7 STW,or of course,7 Weatherby,but those bring their own costs.Seldom are there no choices!And any marginal differences in terminal effects,within similar chamberings, are more in the heads of shooters than the bodies of deer.But shooter confidence is important,so go for it if you so wish!!

gbal

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

 

Regards,

 

Novice

[Andrew]

So I'm am American. How wide is a "clear fell"??

 

Nice rig. I like the 284 Winchester. I know wild catting it has been popular but it is too often overlooked as the fine cartridge that it is. ~Andrew

[lambsey]

Nice, reminds me of something you built a while ago dave

[Chris-NZ]

So I'm am American. How wide is a "clear fell"??

..

 

 

Bit wider than a "blocked fell"

 

B*ggered if I know- not a term used in NZ either

[Ronin]

Clear fell could be a 100 yard wide swathe of felled trees, or several 100 yeards or further of felled area.

 

Hence the term "clear fell"

 

Basically its an area of ground where the trees have been felled and extracted leaving the stumps behind to rot away and is usually replanted fairly soon after making it attractive to deer looking for tasty shoots.

 

The issue with clearfell is that its very difficult to get close for a "normal shot" and the second being extraction of the carcass is "hazzardous and labour intensive" to say the least, especially with larger species.

[jcampbellsmith]

.....The issue with clearfell is that its very difficult to get close for a "normal shot" and the second being extraction of the carcass is "hazzardous and labour intensive" to say the least, especially with larger species.

 

It's also difficult to range the deer as there may be nothing to ping with the rangefinder. Finding a dead deer on a clear fell is tricky too. Marking the firing point and starting again helps, but I've spent a good few hours looking for my roe. Moving quietly is tricky too as the brash cracks as you step on it. I had a successful run in the snow with my snow shoes two years ago and on a number of afternoons got a roe. The snow helped me move quietly and the roe stood out in the snow. It's often a case of observing the deer out of range and coming back another time. Regards JCS

[Laurie]

If you can get a barrel in 7 x 64 for your Mauser, thats what i would go for. Lovely cartridge, and nice to shoot.

 

I,m seeing a real resurgence in both 7 x 64 and .280 rem being asked for in custom sporter of late. [baldie]

 

That's interesting Dave. I've noticed rising interest from American F Class competitors too on the US forums in .280 Rem, either standard or AI, as alternatives to .284 Win, WSMs, RSAUMs, 6.5-284 etc. Accuracy seems to be every bit as good despite the unfashionably long .30-06 based case and the absence of Lapua brass neither worries nor apparently disadvantages these guys. One user who wanted Lapua brass sent me a reamer drawing for a PT&G design that was 280AI marginally shortened up front as reformed / fireformed Lapua .30-06 brass ends up with a slightly shorter neck. The AI version allegedly gives similar velocities to the short magnums and 284 Shehane and shoots just as accurately.

 

PS like the rifle!

[Strangely Brown]

Laurie,

Does the .280 Remington share any resemblance with the .280 British that was proposed with are illfated EM2 military project?

[Laurie]

Mick,

 

only in that they both used the .30-06 case as a starting point.

 

.280/30 took the US case and cut it down to ~45-47mm (from 63mm original length) and produced a series of 270 and 7mm versions before settling on the final 7X47mm or .280/30, or 7mm Ball Mk1 - choose your name. A great little cartridge - very similar to the later 7mm Remington BR but with more body taper to assist feeding in automatic weapons. What a shame the Americans killed it!

 

The .280 Rem (also called 7mm Express Remington at one point in its life) was Remy's answer to the competing .270 Winchester - only the Winchester number was introduced in 1935 and the .280 some 22 years later which didn't exactly make it available to compete until after the 270 Win was fully established! The name change was brief - a failed attempt to help sales, but it confused the punters with 7mm Remington Magnum, so they changed the name back again to .280 Rem after a few years. (You couldn't make this up!)

 

Take one .30-06 case, move the shoulder marginally forward and reduce the neck diameter to hold a 7mm bullet. You can reform .30-06, but have to partly neck it down, then create a small false shoulder at the base of the neck before final part-neck sizing to 7mm and fireforming. No sense in doing this unless you have .30-06 brass that you want to use, either because it's cheap, or it's Lapua or summat.

 

Otherwise it's virtually a necked down .30-06 like .270 Winchester. Remy had to move the shoulder forward a little compared to .270 and .30-06 to stop a .280 chambering in a .270 Win rifle and trying to fire an oversize bullet.

 

It's a powerful cartridge, not far short of 7mm Rem Magnum with modern powders, and in Ackley Improved form is on a par with .284 Shehane and 7mm Rem SAUM. It was never a great sales success, but seems to have been 'discovered' recently by American shooters both for stalking and target shooting. Before that, it was used mainly by long-range sheep, goat, and antelope hunters in the USA and there was a fad some years back for lightweight 'Mountain Rifles' led by Remy and the .280 was a favoured chambering - it must have kicked like a mule!

 

Nosler added factory 280AI brass to its 'Custom Brass' range (this calibre supposedly made for them by Norma) maybe 3 or 4 years back and this has provided a big fillip to the AI version - not cheap brass, but good quality. I've got a 7mm F Open rifle for club shooting (my Barnard Action / Eliseo tubegun former F/TR rifle) in the pipeline and I seriously considered .280AI for a while, but settled on .284 Win in the end, largely on gunsmithing simplicity and its longer barrel life. Common or garden nowadays, but it works, so why make a change just to be different from everybody else?

 

The 7X64 Brenecke that Dave mentioned is a German design that long predates the 270 Win and 280 Rem. It's not interchangeable with 280, but is so similar that you can use 280 loads data with a 5% reduction in the maximum charge. It's still popular on the continent and the last time I looked, RWS listed maybe 8 or 10 bullet weight and type loadings. I used to see the occasional example taken a part exchange when I did work for York Guns and they usually sold quickly, while I don't think I ever saw a .280 in stock.

[Strangely Brown]

Thanks Laurie, that's a much fuller answer then I expected........or probably deserve!

 

Call me an anorak, but I have often wondered how the Lee Enfield No.5 would have behaved chambered in .280 British?

[Laurie]

Call me an anorak, but I have often wondered how the Lee Enfield No.5 would have behaved chambered in .280 British? [strangely Brown]

 

Mick, better than in .303, but still not great I reckon. (The man to ask on this would be Peter Sarony of Armalon Limited as he builds .30 Carbine calibre Number 4 action gallery rifles among other things.)

 

But in a heavy-barrel AR10/AR15 type design ......... (Vince Bottomley aka Gun Pimp is going to rebuild my 308W Southern Gun SSR-10 in 6.5mm Hornady Creedmoor which shouldn't be all that different performance and recoil etc wise from .280/30, maybe just a tad more muscular if the loads are kept below conventional bolt-action levels.)

 

Going back to Baldie's original post, I reckon his customer made a great choice in .284 Win for the rifle's intended use. If you get any feedback on how it groups Dave, please pass it on - it should provide near or up to match level precision I reckon.

[baldie]

Shoots just like any target rifle Laurie.

 

Its a very easy cartridge to load for and make bughole. The customer is using Berger,s in his i believe.

[Chris-NZ]

..

 

The .280 Rem ... in Ackley Improved form is on a par with .284 Shehane and 7mm Rem SAUM....

Nosler added factory 280AI brass to its 'Custom Brass' range (this calibre supposedly made for them by Norma)..

 

 

and the main appeal to me Laurie is it fits in a std LA/ .473 boltface action.

 

I've had the brass and Ackley dies sitting on the shelf for a new hunting rifle, ostensibly to take back to Africa. My buddy over there wants to take me to Namibia for some plains action and one must be adequately equipped, no?

 

I'd planned to use an M98 action we had lying around and had even imported from Germany a single-stack Voere magazine that slots straight into a '98 action. What I discovered when it arrived was a beautifully made item but it wasn't a go-er as the mag has been shaped in the walls to constrain the case from moving fwd under recoil, ie the shoulder of the Ackley case wouldn't fit in the mag. Same issue with the brother mag I got in for my friend/gunsmith Tony Halberg (of HHE Millennium fame) for his M98 .338 Fed project. End of those plans..

 

When Tony passed on recently, I discovered in his myraid guns a pre-64 M70 actioned target rifle he'd built in the late '60s for NRA shooting. In fact, he got me back into NRA shooting with that before building me a dedicated rifle based on an RPA CG-2000 action. I digress.. Anyway, I realised soon after I picked it up, it would make the ideal action for the Ackley projest. Only problem is all the bottom metal is missing as it'd been converted into a solid floorplate single shot with epoxy. Some searching quickly revealed all the necessary bottom metal is still available in the US.

 

I think I'll just get a Boyd's laminate which are available pre-inletted for pre-64s as there's too much drama having a custom inlet done and there's no harm having a slightly heavier stock for this chambering.

 

Chris-NZ

[Dooty]

You do build a good looking gun Baldie

[Gr1ffer]

my type of rifle