Trespassers/Hare coursers/thieves - anybody has had problems with them in their shoots?

[deerman]

Hi guys,

 

The time of the year when farm machinery will be left on the fields is fast approaching and with it comes a regular problem at the farms where I shoot. There is a persistent group of individuals - we have a very good idea of who they are - who come into the farm at night to steal fuel from the combines, trucks, tractors, etc.

 

I have a couple of infra-red trail cameras and have caught them in the act a couple of times, but the imagery was not good enough for positive identification, so the police could not do much about it.

 

Then there is also the problem with hare coursers who come to the farms in the middle of the night and drive through the crops, causing massive damage.

 

Part of the problem is that there is a green lane into one of the main farms, which had been closed for maintenance for about 2 years, so they could not get in through that. The water board, which had been carrying out the maintenance to the green lane - their water mains pipes run under it - came in to do extensive work to unearth, repair and re-lay the pipes and brought with them massive machinery to do the work. The machinery was left on site over night and fuel was being nicked with alarming regularity. We found through where they were coming in and the engineers set about digging a trench about 200m long by 1m deep to try and put a stop to the problem. It wasn't long before they found another place into one of the fields from the road and started coming through there, again causing a lot of damage.

 

Once, while field dressing a deer after dark, I spotted a group of hare coursers coming in a van. When they saw me they pretended they had "lost" their dog (the usual lame excuse) and asked if I had permission to be on the land. I confirmed that, and without confirming from whom I asked if they did. At this point they became very aggressive and abusive. As I had firearms in the truck I said nothing more and hoped they would go away, as it only takes a malicious call from one of these buggers for you to get an avalanche of police cars with blues and twos coming your way to take you in for questioning, before things are sorted out, and you may even find yourself looking down the wrong end of a barrel in the process.

 

Has anybody had similar problems, and if so any advice? The police are most helpful, but they always tell us to call them when we spot them on the land, but this is quite difficult as they not very "friendly" and taking the phone out to call the old bill wouldn't be advisable in front of them. The other times we see them they are in fast retreat and nobody is mad enough to give chase.

 

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

Best,

 

George

[Sakoboomstick]

George,

 

a farm i shoot on we have just dug about 3km of ditches and banks, renewed all gates and gate posts and had locking clamps made for all gates, so far touch wood it has stopped coursing and poaching,

the real test will be when the harvest is cut, the last two years we have had a huge problem.

 

it has only stopped it on that farm, those involved will surely move onto someone else's farm, there are rumours that those involved are known but it hasn't been confirmed.

 

the police used to be useless at responding to calls about this stuff but then they advised to call them whenever there was a sighting in the area, something about the more calls that get logged the higher on the action list or something,

this has paid off, the last time a suspect sighting was made they were there in no time.

 

if every farm did the same it would deter them but not for long, they would find a way.

 

if they are targeting fuel in machinery, why not set up a honey trap with your stealth cams to catch them on film, if you stage it and trigger the camera yourself you can see when you have clear pics then set it up for them and wait, if they are as persistent as you say you shouldn't have to wait long

[Gandy]

Deerman, sounds a similar story to around here, I've had all of the above and more. One of my permissions we have had such an issue with poaching (deer) the farmer has insisted total eradication (within the limits of the law). That's been a bitter pill to swallow any spaces in syndicates or leases coming up let me know.

 

More worryingly we have also seen a rise in violence and aggression towards lawful individuals. Coupled with the usual vandalism burning down barns if caught.

 

However north yorks police have been good and have responded well. They say the reason for the instances, offenders have been pushed from other adjoining counties into NYP due to pro active policing.

 

Ps, and this came from the police officer if you tell us that there are people poaching and they have firearms (inc air rifles) an armed response will be required due to imposed operating procedures. This would take some time to assemble, ie think about how you report. Also due to the rural nature of the incidents if you can give a post code or precise location it will greatly assist response times.

[MarinePMI]

First of all, I'm glad I live in the US, as the trespassers would be shot, and I'd be well within my legal rights to defend my property doing so.

 

That being said, there are alternatives of a more vicious nature...

 

Razor blades under door handles, electrifying the gas cap, jury rigging a second fuel tank to the gas cap that's holding sugar tainted gas or diesel...

 

Maybe I'm insensitive, but theives really piss me off, and I feel they deserve the utmost brutal and painful (not necessarily life threatening) lesson possible.

[whoowhoop]

As you are probably aware, hare coursing is no longer classed as poaching, it is a wildlife crime under the Hunting Act and carries severe penalties.

However, what seems to be the obvious option is to report that a firearm was seen.

Do you have a regular copper?

I know every force has a Wildlife Crime Officer these days, and they all seem exceedingly zealous.

 

But I beat on a friends shoot, and he and the rest of his family all have problems with one particular individual, a known dealer, thief and violent b*stard, and even dialling 999 to report armed trespass and threats meets with sweet FA from Plod.

Perhaps because this bit of scum is believed to be an informer?

[TonyH]

...what seems to be the obvious option is to report that a firearm was seen.

..., and even dialling 999 to report armed trespass and threats meets with sweet FA from Plod.

...

The poster above points out correctly that this would entail an armed unit, slow to assemble; remember the recent Cumbrian situation in which unarmed police could not or would not pursue the perpetrator...

One of the weird things about the crappy sort of make-believe social contract we have now is that everyone knows (very apparent here) that the police are going to be very little use in situations such as described, but we're not allowed to "take the law into our own hands" - an odd expression since in a democratic society the law belongs to us all.... Even if you can get hold of the police in a hurry (IME not at all certain) they are very unlikely to be able to move quickly enough to apprehend the villains, even if motivated to do so in the first place. I know people in the East Midlands, an area in which "travelling folk" (aka didicoys, tinkers, gyppoes) are particularly rife and have wrought havoc for many years, getting away with murder; my acquaintances say the police are reluctant to interfere with these people unless it's mob-handed and even then they seem to achieve little in suppressing the wildly anti-social lifestyles of the gyppoes. The latter do more or less what they like. I have a great respect for Tony Martin...

The law is skewed very much in favour of cheeky miscreants and against ordinary people who wish to protect their property and their livelihoods.

[lancslad]

You tried you local police wildlife officers?

 

We have them in lancashire..

[deerman]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for some fantastic insight into your own problems and that of others. Yes, we have the police on our side, but so far they have been pretty slow to react and that is why we are trying to gather any evidence we can get. The dude we suspect to be stealing the fuel lives right by one of the farms, but without hard evidence it would be unwise to even try to prosecute such an unsavoury character. The stories about burnt out barns, machinery, etc. speaks volumes so the risks are too high for not very much.

 

A friend of mine who worked for many years as a country bobby said that many times they found stolen property right inside travellers' camps but would not dare going there to investigate for fear of reprisals and unrest, so there. It makes you wonder why the bad guy seems to always have the last laugh.

 

We tried the cameras, but the light emitted is not strong enough to capture features in the dark. A flash equipped camera would be spotted and even the infrared ones can be spotted by a ware intruder.

 

Please keep the suggestions and your stories coming.

 

Regards,

 

George

[Gandy]

Hi guys,

 

we are trying to gather any evidence we can get. The dude we suspect to be stealing the fuel lives right by one of the farms, but without hard evidence it would be unwise to even try to prosecute such an unsavoury character.

 

The sugar in the diesel is a gem of an approach but does take some effort and should minimise reprisals.

 

I cant say enough about how good the police have been not caught many in the act but stop ans search lots, set up a farm watch and their ethos is if they will break the law there will be something we can prosecute on.

 

This has included crushing cars, drugs offences, seizing dogs with help from the RSPCA and as another poster mentioned prosecutions under the hunting act.

 

We all did a weekend where we all stayed out and reported any lamping in conjunction with the police, very successful weekend that was.

[baldie]

Ring the police up and tell them that you have seen men out with dogs, and you suspect they are badger digging. I guarantee you the entire division will descend on your land.

[Alycidon]

The Police's problem is one of manpower on the ground especially on weekday nights. That wont get any better either.

 

We have also had some problems this spring with a group from Nottingham area with coursing hares but on land adjoining us not ours. This does undoubtedly impacy on our Hare numbers, we have almost no deer. Our major local poacher went back to his country of birth a couple of years ago so that helped the hares quiet a bit, last time the RSPCA inspected his smallholding they took have a dozen coppers with them, bloke was very large and just went wherever he liked.

 

Last time we had a series of pheasant poaching incidents maybe 15 years ago the Police response was appalling, reluctant to turn out, even more reluctant to prosecute when we caught them redhanded.

 

A

[whoowhoop]

Baldie, as usual, I'm afraid you have hit the v bull with that one.

 

Plod seems to think rural crime is what happens in "Heartbeat"

[bigdan]

HAD A SIMILAR PROBLEM HERE IN SUSSEX, i called the police whilst watching the travellers pile out of their transit on my permission. there were 8 of them .! the police said as it was on private property they had no power to act !! i replied that if i was standing in gordon browns garden what would they do then ? the policeman said " thats an entirely different scenario sir " i said " so in this democracy of ours some of us are born more equal than others then " it fell on deaf ears and they refused to come out. what am i paying their wages for ? the only reason these theiving scum prosper is because they are protected by the law. if it wasnt for the fear of going to prison im sure a lot of people would take the law into their own hands which is where it rightfully should be. come armeggedon come !

[baldie]

If i had a tenner for every time i was reported on a sunday morning , with 70 hounds and in full hunt uniform, for "badger digging" i would be considerably richer.

Just a pity the police never saw fit to prosecute the anti,s for wasting police time.

[whoowhoop]

Been there, done that, felt the chopper blades whirling overhead, even been reported as otter hunting when in full fig with Minkhounds.

 

Foxhounds on a Sunday!!

In uniform!

Ye Gods, Sir!

Must be a Provincial pack or Heaven forbid ... a Gun Pack !!!

Oh ! the shame!

[baldie]

I was the whip at the pennine foxhounds fell pack. Right raggy lads.

[Elwood]

This is the response from our local constabulary.

 

If they are armed we will not send out a patrol car, it would have to be the armed response unit, and you have no chance of getting them out at 3 0clock in the morning.

[MarinePMI]

Lordy, I don't kow how you guys put up with this crap!

 

Another deterent might be to rig some sort of dispersant when the cap is removed...say, skunk cover scent used for predator hunting (the strong two-part mix)...might make the thieves' social lives a bit interesting for a few days... A bit less vicious, but I'd imagine, highly effective...even if it doesn't get on them, that stuff is strong enough to gag a billy goat...

 

Maybe a rat trip type trigger with the two vials, set at shin height, mounted hanging from the underside fo the body panel...just thinking out loud here...

[Zaitsev]

We too are visited by some unsavoury individuals. It's a case of attrition I'm afraid. If you know who they are (and most of you do) and they are travellers of one sort or another then the police/local authorities are pretty hot on waste licences at the mo. Bear with me...

 

If these guys are involved in businesses which generate waste ('landscaping', 'building', 'tree surgery' etc) then they have to have a licence to transport waste. Most of em don't. So, a report to both the LA and the police can result in vehicles being seized, prosecutions and in the case of fly tipping quite subtstantial fines. If they get their vehicles seized then problem will at least abate. Untaxed/insured/motd vehicles similarly. It takes some time to gather the evidence but is worth it. I'd also repeat one of the previous posts saying call the police every time theres an incident as this way it does go up the priority list.

 

Failing that you could always tie an actual billy goat to the tractor in the field... A really nasty ornery one or better still a Jersey bull. Pick up the pieces in the morning

[whoowhoop]

I was the whip at the pennine foxhounds fell pack. Right raggy lads.

 

 

Aye, Baldie!

I have supped some ale with the Pennine lads in North Wales on several occasions.

They don't seem to need much sleep