Gunman kills several in west Cumbria

[alled12]

Camerons response was pretty good, we cannot legislate for people snapping mentally all we can do is do our best to prevent it from happening. Home secretary has spoke to say that our current legislation is good enough. Sky's report on the license holding was actually pretty good. They still dont know what is actually allowed. At least we havent seen any of the anti brigade just yet. Lets see how the next few days go. For god sake David please make sure your lot are prepared and get this right as a paid up member I expect nothing less this time.

[David BASC]

My posts on here are from me as a member of BASC staff.

 

You may or may not realise that one of the early aired interviews with Bill, the one where he mentioned the Olympics, was a heavily edited recording and only picked up on one answer to one question, and did not air all the other points that Bill had made.

 

If you saw the other interviews with BASC staff, Bill Harriman, Mike Eveleigh and Steve Woodhall especially the live ones with Jeremy Paxman for example on Newsnight on Wednesday, or yesterday on BBC 24, or last night on radio 5 live I think you will have seen the ‘real’ BASC in operation.

 

BASC has been on BBC and ITV many times in the last 48 hours, national and local radio, local TV.

 

We have been in touch with every national and all main local newspapers with press statements and also sending them all an updated copy of our publication ‘ Shooting Sports Facts for Journalists’

 

We have been speaking to the Home Secretary’s Office and gained assurance from them yesterday morning that the Home Secretary would recommend calm and would not launch in with a knee jerk reaction – this was exactly what we all saw when the Home Sec made her statement to the house yesterday afternoon, and this was echoed by the Prime minister later on

 

There are many many more interviews booked, and of course we are increasing our level of contact with MP’s, ministers and so on.

 

OK I may well accept your point that you and others do not like BASC –that is your choice, but who else from all the other shooting organisations is standing up to be counted right now – when shooters need their association most?

 

 

Baldie,

Not wishing to distract this thread, so maybe you would like to start another one to answer this but if I may take up some points you raised:

 

Handgun ban – why lay the blame for this at BASC’s door? Where was the National Pistol Association – whose objective was to defend pistol shooting? Why do you blame BASC for another association evidently failing?

 

Hunting- This was the preserve of the BFSS / CA not BASC,– so again why do you blame BASC for the CA failing to keep hunting?

 

VCR – what you specific problem with that?

 

David

[Wsm]

Hi David and welcome to the site

 

I've been watching this tragedy unfold closely over the two days and to be honest BASC have been high profile from the start.Mike Everleigh came across well in Paxman with his balanced approach despite the interviewer searching for any slip ups to exploit.Hard to comment on the Harriman interview without seeing it in its entirety

 

As far as I've seen the other organisations have been very conspicuous by their absence so perhaps it would be better for all those with memberships of other organisations (or those thinking about giving them their cash in future) to ask them what they're doing about it before jumping up and down on BASC

 

Like it or not in this modern day world of spin and hype the powers that be will take more notice of an organisation with shiny new offices and men in suits mixing amongst them rather than a bloke in jeans operating from a back street office.I think this is where BASC have headed with their controvertial Marford Mill venture together and large lobbying expense sheets which again is (like it or not) is how things now operate in Westminster.We might now see just if this "lobbying" has been worth the expense

 

The animal rights brigade got this spot on with the new labour shower so now lets learn from that and take the mantle with the new Government which seems to be more pro our way of life

 

Theres are past issues that I don't agree with that BASC have been involved in but I don't see an alternative (especially over the last few days) at this time

 

Anyone is free to start a thread regarding their views on other BASC topics but we won't allow things to go down the route of personal insults and intimidation that we've seen on other sites

[brown dog]

David,

 

Thanks for your reply. All understood. One point, if this was addressed to me:

OK I may well accept your point that you and others do not like BASC –that is your choice, but who else from all the other shooting organisations is standing up to be counted right now – when shooters need their association most?

I am not a BASC slagger. I was however very disappointed by the media performances I observed.

 

I understand your point about editing; but in a media savvy environment, you would only be passing key lines to take and then stopping talking

-not offering niff naff subsequent olympic/rural economy points and thereby allowing yourselves to be misedited/misrepresented.

 

If your message only comes across accurately when a whole interview is played back, then you have mis-appreciated the way the media works.

Editing is inevitable.

Say what has to be said and then stop talking - other than to reiterate the key lines.

 

Apologies if that's appears a bit 'suck eggs'; but it's clearly been done ineffectually thus far.

[David BASC]

Hi ,

 

I take your point of course, but one of the string of questions Bill was asked was (effectively) ' what effect would a ban have on the Olympics and the rural economy' he gave an answer...

 

But as I have said, the other interviews came across much better - even the edited ones!

 

David

[brown dog]

I take your point of course, but one of the string of questions Bill was asked was (effectively) ' what effect would a ban have on the Olympics and the rural economy' he gave an answer...

 

My point exactly! He shouldn't have answered the question!

 

He should have politely returned the questioner to the key messages BASC intended to pass.

 

Thereby not enabling a mis-edit.

 

 

 

...meant helpfully.

[lancslad]

DAVID.

 

Can I ask what BASC are doing about all of the news reports I am seeing and hearing on Tv. each and everyone of them seems to be all pointed aganst shooting.

 

I heard one on my local radio station today, " we have been out on the streets today to gauge reaction" every comment was about banning guns.

 

And just HOW ITV can get away with putting this poor kid on telly tonight................this doesnt need to be on telly, the poor kid should be in counselling.

 

 

 

Im already having arguments on facebook with BAN THE GUN types. putting forward simple and civil answers, Im even discussing with people at work the "legislation" that we have to go through to get licences, we all know that this was a horrible incident I think that BASC should start to pro-actively do something about this and start to make statements to that effect.

[baldie]

My posts on here are from me as a member of BASC staff.

 

 

 

 

Baldie,

Not wishing to distract this thread, so maybe you would like to start another one to answer this but if I may take up some points you raised:

 

Handgun ban – why lay the blame for this at BASC’s door? Where was the National Pistol Association – whose objective was to defend pistol shooting? Why do you blame BASC for another association evidently failing?

 

Hunting- This was the preserve of the BFSS / CA not BASC,– so again why do you blame BASC for the CA failing to keep hunting?

 

VCR – what you specific problem with that?

 

David

 

I,ll go through them one by one David.

 

1. I didn,t lay the blame solely at BASC,s door, but they were just as innefective as all the much smaller organisations. You do after all trumpet yourselves as " the voice of shooting ".

 

2. Hunting. Your org did a very good job of keeping retrievers and gamekeepers terriers out of the legislation to a point. At the expense of foxhounds/beagles/lurchers etc.

 

3. VCR. Your org succesfully kept shotgun primers off the list of items requiring production of an fac to buy. You didn,t do anything for the rifleshooter who has to produce to buy his primers did you ? He also pays your wages.

 

As is blatantly clear, and always has been, BASC are there only to fight for the sporting shotgunner, all other disciplines, in my eyes, are used purely to fill the coffers. Nothing wrong with fighting for the shotgunner, it was after all what WAGBI was formed for, but at least be honest about it.

 

I fear your organisation now has its work cut out, you are now going to have to defend your core support. You will have my full support despite my dislike for BASC. You will also have my money, at any point its asked for, and my prescence at any rallies etc. I will lay my dislikes aside, and urge all other shooters to do the same.

[David BASC]

Brown Dog - valid point, thank you

 

Lancs Lad - One of the problems of the "no knee jerk" response is that it doesn't feed the media's hunger for developing news. As a result the press will speculate frantically (and get interviews to support this) on all sorts of changes to legislation, the most dramatic the better - this is what you are starting to see.

 

BASC will be putting a robust case for shooting. Some of you may have heard the Jeremy Vine debate on Friday and we'll be on the "Politics Show" on Sunday. Our regional Directors will be covering local radio and TV.

 

The key to the debate from here in won't be the media froth. It will be about building a sensible consensus across parties for reasonable reform and leaving the antis on the sidelines. A lot of this work will need to be done in private and it has started.

 

The good news is that the independent PACEC report - 70% funded by BASC - demonstrated that live quarry shooting alone puts more than £1.6 billion into the rural economy, contributes 2.7 million work days on conservation and funded the full time equivalent of 70,000 jobs. No government is going to want to damage that.

 

We are exploring getting the BASC election site reborn as a parliamentary lobbying tool for shooters to use. That should take a few days but it will allow all of you - whether or not you're a BASC member - to let your MPs know where you stand.

 

Baldie, than you very much for your comments, I would much rather members and others tell me they have an issue with BASC so at least i know, and if possible do something about it.

 

We will have to agree to disagree about handguns - You may remember BASC was the only organisation that was prepared to give live interviews on TV the day of Dunblane, and on breakfast TV the day after, you may remember it was BASC that got 22 pistols excluded from the initial ban. OK in the end the battle was lost when Lab swept to power - but not for want of trying by BASC, lonely though it was.

 

Being mainly a live quarry shooting organisation of course we fought for shooters to still be able to use their dogs to hunt and flush game and for 'keepers to use terriers - it would have been unforgivable of us not to.

 

Sorry to sound daft, but if a rifle shooters needs to buy primers to home load rifle rounds, for use in their rifle, then they would need a FAC anyway to legally possess the finished round / rifle?

 

I accept that the majority of our members own shotguns, but about 40% also own full and small bore rifle - so I am very much aware of how important and valuable the rifle shooter is to BASC.

 

Regards

 

David

[Barrelsniffer]

Ive heard a few chaps mention that derek bird had a gun/rifle out the day before the shooting, and a friend talked him out of it ? and then he tried to admit himself into a hospital but was then turned away ? all the day before the shooting

 

Anyone else heard this and if so is it true ?

 

Mick

[David BASC]

I heard talk of him trying to get into hospital be day before, but no detial, doubtless this will all come out in the police report.

 

David