brown dog Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Don't think I can face reloading tonight . Grateful if someone could state the price of the new Bisley / RUAG ammo if they know it with certainty. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballistic Hamster Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Try; http://www.hps-tr.com/ Good ammo John loads in his wearhouse OR Norman Clark good prices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeza Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Don't think I can face reloading tonight . Grateful if someone could state the price of the new Bisley / RUAG ammo if they know it with certainty. Thanks! Cant say with certainty but I believe £73 it was a hundred!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Both, Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I recall Bisley was selling it for £85 ish per 100 with a 10p per case refund on the brass. It shoots very well and to the same POA for me as my 155 Scenar load. I know a man claiming a 1" 3 shot 600 yd group with it out of a tractor rifle I just looked at the new price of Scenars and N140 and it would not have to come in much cheaper to make it a decent proposition vs reloading for me. TC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 I recall Bisley was selling it for £85 ish per 100 with a 10p per case refund on the brass. It shoots very well and to the same POA for me as my 155 Scenar load. I know a man claiming a 1" 3 shot 600 yd group with it out of a tractor rifle I just looked at the new price of Scenars and N140 and it would not have to come in much cheaper to make it a decent proposition vs reloading for me. TC Yes, that's my understanding of the price, which is reasonable not to say cheap for factory match quality ammo using a Sierra MK, especially as it's sourced from the Eurozone. Ask your local gunshop for a quote on Lapua or Federal match ammo, and you'll get a shock! I bet the next contract lot will be a LOT dearer though. This was a one year introductory contract, and I'll bet RUAG made little or no profit on it to get a foot in the door. I can make a handloading comparison, as quite by chance I've just done the figures for .223 Rem 90gn Berger VLD v .308 Win 155.5gn Berger for an article about .223 developments and its possible use in long-range F/TR. A handloaded 308 using Lapua brass, Fed 210M match primer, 155.5gn Berger Match BT FULLBORE, and 1,000yd load of Viht N540 came to 75.4 pence / round. This assumed 10 loadings from the cases. This is a top of the line 308 using the most expensive 155 on the market. If you bought cheaper N140 or N150 in a 3.5Kg tub you'd save quite a bit of the powder, but buying 155 Scenars in 1,000 bullet packs would reduce the unit price by a full 15.5P over the Berger 155.5. Prices are full RRP from the importer, so with shopping around a bit too, a good 308 match load will be around 55P a round at present, 30P cheaper than the 2009 RWS. If you want factory .308 ammo, my advice is buy the NRA RUAG / RWS ammo now. I doubt if we'll ever see such a good buy again. Laurie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted November 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 Laurie, Thanks; top tips. Just got back; yes £83 per 100. Nice carton too! But, not sure how the Frau would react to me bulk buying NRA ammo Down side: Ammo prices are getting beyond a little depressing across the board -far outstripping inflation or currency fluctuations. I suspect we're suffering from profiteering by UK importers exploiting the hyped (but fictional) 'war shortages'. False marketing propaganda that is too often repeated, without analysis or thought, in the UK shooting press As I've outlined before: To put a little perspective on things; I believe RUAG (ie one single European manufacturer amongst many many many manufacturers) produces of the order of 100,000 rounds PER DAY EVERY DAY. At that level, that one company could produce ALL the ammo expended by Brit Forces in Afghanistan in 2008 in 40 days. Thus 'War' demands are well within US / European production capabilities without breaking any sweat at all. It's just UK hype -and an excuse to raise prices. ...Much like the oft quoted 'rise in metal prices'. Say a bullet (projectile) costs £1 to manufacture. How much of that is the cost of the raw material? Let's say 10p or 10%. Even if the price of metal doubles, the new price is (or should be) £1.10 even if it quadrupled it should only be £1.30 ....not £2 Food for thought.... But, turning to the NRA ammo: Upside: (Based on a quick blast this morning at 100, 300, 500 and 600) The ammo is superbly accurate. Crazy accurate. As good, I suspect as Lapua Factory Match. Fired 3 x 3 shot groups at 100m to suss the new ammo; all 3 groups were well under 0.5MOA (one being 0.2). It shot superbly at all other listed ranges. Well worth the current price (MV was higher than I expected: 2880fps out of a 24" barrel at 5degC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LONG RANGE CAPT Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 BD, Could not agree with you more on the ammo myth stuff and the rip off ammo prices. Example:- 1. 7.62mm link is all being supplied by RG 2. 5.56mm is being supplied by RG and CBC of Brazil Point to note all the CBC stuff we have run through are SA80A2 Carbines has the primers blowing out the back of the case. 3. 9mm pistol ammo is being supplied by IMI - (Israeli Military Industries) 4. The only RUAG stuff I have come across is .338 Lap Mag. Regards Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 Brown Dog. I'm pleased you've found it performs as well as I'd heard - so the NRA finally gets it right (after a mere 40 years of 7.62 Target Rifle!) 2,880 out of 24" suggests around 3,000 fps ex a 30" TR or F/TR rifle with a barrel in good condition - that's good too, as it needs that to keep the older 155 Sierra bullet model supersonic at 1,000 yards. Rob, how are things in sunnier climes? Interesting re supply sources. RG say they can't supply anybody in the UK other than government for a couple of years - all production facilities fully occupied allegedly. Point to note all the CBC stuff we have run through are SA80A2 Carbines has the primers blowing out the back of the case. Now, isn't that typical? I wonder if that's the fault of the ammmo or some quirk in the SA80 with the bolt opening over-quick? I tried some CBC M855 5.56mm in an SGC SSR-15 maybe six years ago and it was very accurate. It also needed a lot less effort to open the bolt than RG suggesting it was lower pressure in that batch at any rate. 9mm pistol ammo is being supplied by IMI - (Israeli Military Industries) That's intresting too. It was widely reported three or four years back that the Pentagon cancelled orders of IMI fodder because of sensitivities over shooting muslims with ammun ition supplied by the hated Israelis. Maybe the MoD is less concerned, or simply wants to save a pound or two per 1,000 rounds and sod any resentment it causes against our lads. See you at Diggle sometime. Laurie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted November 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 Interesting re supply sources. RG say they can't supply anybody in the UK other than government for a couple of years - all production facilities fully occupied allegedly. Laurie, I'm cursed with cynicism; I heard that same info as the pre-emptive excuses of a company that knew it couldn't deliver the required consistency without significant investment and so exited itself to avoid humiliation. But it's likely I'm wrong Your 9mm/IMI story is reminiscent of the Indian Mutiny Pig Fat incidents! Sounds unlikely to me - the most lethal arty nature in our and US arsenals (L20 ERBS) is Israeli made (as is a lot of other stuff ) -personally, I'd be more offended by having an L20 pop above me than by the "Made in..." label on the fragments Rob, I was citing RUAG merely as an example of one company's production capacity. When one tots up all 'free world' and former soviet ammo companies with similar production outputs the numbers are so mind bogglingly massive that, as we agree, the 'war shortages' line is just laughable....but the British public has bought it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LONG RANGE CAPT Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 Why is it that no matter be it car prices, DVD's, CD's, houses and Ammo, the list could go on, we as the British are taken for a ride again and again. The cost of powder and ammo is at daft levels in the UK. I would be very keen to know who in the UK Gun trade is making alot of money from myth of ammo shortages due to conflict ? RG - Not selling to anyone but the military, Hmmm just another way of cutting civilian shooters out of the loop under the preasure of number 10. While out in North America this year I could walik into most gun stores and buy bucket loads of .308 Federal Match at less than half the price it sells for over hear. On the Matter of powder, that was cheaper than dirt, and when speaking to the gun store owners they were not experiencing any problems getting ammo or components. They did however have some problems with a shortage of weapons, as the demand for hand guns had gone through the roof since the newest president had taken office. Further to the above additional demand had been created by a host of states introducing the ability of private citicens, to be able to conceal carry - I doubt we will be seeing that in the UK ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted November 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 I would be very keen to know who in the UK Gun trade is making alot of money from myth of ammo shortages due to conflict ? The importers/distributors! They've successfully hiked prices based on the artificial demand created by marketing misinformation that no one is questioning - and which is perpetuated in the minds of the shooting public by our shooting press (don't forget where their advertising income comes from). Lies somewhere between Info Ops and a conspiracy theory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 I dont know who is up to what, but i do know, that we have struggled recently, to get ANY milsurp stuff, in 7.62 or 5.56. The last stuff we managed to get was the german M E N , from York guns. Both these calibres have been virtually impossible to get brass for [except lapua] in the last 12 months. We got some .223 remmy brass last week, that had been on backorder for the best part of a year. I would hazard a guess at the american situation, of virtually no ammo, bullets, primers etc, due to their panic buying, has had a knock on effect, in the rocketing sales of milsurp over there....which of course means we get the shitty end of the stick here ? Obama is the man to blame for this. I believe the NRA wish to make him gun salesman of the year ! Incidentally Matt, i hope you kept your NRA brass ? Its very good stuff, and well worth keeping, as the NRA are paying peanuts for it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnE Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 "I bet the next contract lot will be a LOT dearer though. This was a one year introductory contract, and I'll bet RUAG made little or no profit on it to get a foot in the door." Just to give you an update, the price for RUAG has been kept at 83p / round with 10p return on each case. You can also arrange to buy some of last years at a wopping discount of 70p per round (including the return!) It is good stuff though but HPS / Carmichael ammo is also generally very good (he had a few issues recently but the stuff I shot at the weekend was fantastic) and a little cheaper. JohnE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 Why is it that no matter be it car prices, DVD's, CD's, houses and Ammo, the list could go on, we as the British are taken for a ride again and again. ... From where I sit Rob, you're right. Us Kiwis look with a fair bit of greeneye at US prices, and yours are in the opposite direction. It strikes me the prices are set at "what the market can stand". I can't comment on much non-shooting stuff but prices of tools for example are -way- higher than here, and we won't talk about US prices. Chris-NZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnE Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 From where I sit Rob, you're right. Us Kiwis look with a fair bit of greeneye at US prices, and yours are in the opposite direction.It strikes me the prices are set at "what the market can stand". I can't comment on much non-shooting stuff but prices of tools for example are -way- higher than here, and we won't talk about US prices. Chris-NZ Part of that is due to import duties (10% of purchase price + postage) and VAT (17.5% on top of purchase price, postage and duty!). This becomes particularly painful when one looks at the postage prices set by some of the US shipping agents which often seem to be particularly high! Also the "what the market can stand" is very true especially if there is little in the way of a home grown option! Its a very British trait to complain bitterly about prices of things to each other but at the same time not do anything about it. Fuel prices are a excellent example - in 2000 there were fuel strikes when the prices hit an unthinkable 70p per litre. 10 years later they're knocking hard on the door of £1.40 per litre (don't be surprised if they reach £1.50 by Christmas) and there's not been a peep out of anyone despite oil prices barely having risen! JohnE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 We're currently paying about 85p/litre for 91 octane John and that's painful enough. US prices are way less. I look at the massive vehicles they drive over there, eg Ford Excursions and it's only because gas is the price it is that allows that. My good US mate's daughter drives a guzzler V8 to school, in fact all their vehicles are 8s, and not a patch on the efficiency/power of my Audi V8. We cop 12.5% GST (VAT) here on imported items over $400 total value but no import duties. Chris-NZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnE Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 We're currently paying about 85p/litre for 91 octane John and that's painful enough. US prices are way less. I look at the massive vehicles they drive over there, eg Ford Excursions and it's only because gas is the price it is that allows that. My good US mate's daughter drives a guzzler V8 to school, in fact all their vehicles are 8s, and not a patch on the efficiency/power of my Audi V8. We cop 12.5% GST (VAT) here on imported items over $400 total value but no import duties. Chris-NZ Stop!! You're making me want to emigrate!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 V8 Audi eh, Chris, had it flat out yet? drove a few in Germany on the Autobahn. At 275K's I lifted with one of em, chickened out. That was an older "special" for an audi boss. edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-NZ Posted May 21, 2010 Report Share Posted May 21, 2010 Nah, never cranked it out Edi but then again, it's only 2Kkm old. Not even close to the grunt of the old M5 but far more sensible Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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