Where are all the .204s?

[Barrelsniffer]

Yes i know it might not be good for my rifle,just a baseline to start at,and see where it takes me. when im home which is in sept i will defo look into the 40,s and let you know how i get on.

 

Mick

 

 

Well Mick, I've always found that a bit of prior research pays dividends and I can honestly say I never found much difficulty in developing a half-way decent load, at least for e.g. 22-centrefire calibres. With 223 i think i was particularly lucky though: I set out to build a short-medium range load for my lightweight Win Featherweight, using the 40gr V-Max (I've used V-Max in 55gr for years in 22-250) and hit on N130 straight away which seems pretty much perfect to me.

Usual disclaimer: do not copy this load (anyone) but work up to it slowly & carefully! What is safe in my rifle might not be in yours...

With my bullets seated around 11 thou off the lands, using WW brass and Rem 7.5 primer, I load 25.8gr of N130 which I find safe but nice and fast, around 3750fps on a cool day and 3800 when it's warm. I just got back from shooting groundhogs in Canada, temperatures a bit higher than here (maybe 23-28 C) and it shot just as well there, with 'hogs killed out to 335 yards.

Check the ballistics: this bullet has a BC of only 0.2 but at this velocity it shoots very flat, should be perfectly useable out to 400 yards and beyond.

Will this do? If you try it yourself I'd be interested to hear how you get on.

Regards, Tony

[Guest richness]

hi,

 

 

It is a great calibre, accurate, low noise, low cost (still shooting the factory ammo cases that I have reloaded 8 times!) and love the ability to see the strike before you hear the 'thump'! I shoot a 39gnSBK load, zips out of my 22 inch barrel at 3890fps and its flat as a pancake. I have a 6mmBR for the windier days for foxing, but I find them on a par with each other on fox.

 

Finman

 

 

Hi Finman What powder are you using for such high fps from 22" barrel mate?

 

 

In answer to the original question: i love 204Ruger. I love how fast and mild it is. I'm not desperately bothered about laser-flat trajectories, you just dial it out...and 223 is just as effective IME. I simply like the smoothness and efficiency of the round. It is most annoying that most factory barrels won't shoot 40gr. Without the 39gr SBK i think the calibre wouldn't have made it. But it did and i have great success with it npw that i have one of the new 20cal Archer barrels. I'm getting a shade under an inch and a half at 400y. Any further and i use a bigger gun. Those that complain of poor performance at 500y+ in wind i always feel have misunderstood what the calibre is for and best at, which IMHO is blowing up crows and such like with very minimal ricochet risk and the ability to see bullet strikes easily.

I really like mine and it isn't going anywhere. ATVB Richard Utting

[Lee]

Hay Richard,

 

nice to see you!, doesn't it sux to have a small post count again, at least your like me a newbie to the board!

 

Lee

[Finman]

Hi Finman What powder are you using for such high fps from 22" barrel mate?

 

 

Hi Richard,

 

the load that I am using is 27.5gn N135, Fed205M, 39gn SBK. Got the idea from Todd Kindler, although he suggested that I use RL10x. I have two tubs, still not persuaded to fix something that ain't broken.

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

 

PS: the load is safe in my gun and I take no responsibility for anyone using it in theirs.

[steven67]

i had rem sps in 204r used 40 grn v max best fox gun i owned after a ruger no 1 now

[MarinePMI]

Oh well, I might as well add my two cents/pence worth...

 

I've had a 20Tac for nigh on 10 years now. From the beginning there was a lot of hype and misinformation. Speed and flat trajectory are the .20's strengths (notice the one comment about having to aim low, becuase the bullet is still on the upward arc out past 100yds).

 

My own discoveries came to a fairly simple conclusion. With .20's, bullet selection is crucial. Period.

 

VMAX rounds are intended for violent expansion, and as such, tend to "splash" when they hit a scapula or leg bone, even on a small coyote or fox. The 39gr SBK's tend to be a bit heavier construction, and thus tend to yield better results for the larger critters. IMHO it has less to do with bullet weight, more to do with bullet construction. The .20's can more than adequately take fox (the problem being that there isn't much pelt left afterwards).

 

As with any sub-caliber, shot placement is critical; be it .20 or .17. The .243/6mm bullets do tend to behave better for the longer shots, but I'd wager that most folks don't take fox (on average) at more than 2-300yds.

 

Not to be a snob here, but when I hear "You need more gun" and "fox" in the same sentence, I hear (internally) "...because I'm just not that good of a shot, so overkill is better." Now before everyone gets in an uproar over that last comment, let me make a distinction. Here in the States, most folks hunt fox for the pelt, so pelt damage is a factor (and the .20 at close range renders them pretty much destroyed). In the UK, the attitude (and correct me if I'm wrong) is more like "kill the freakin' things and be done with it". With that being said, the 243 seems to be the perfect caliber. 55gr Silver tips on coyotes out here in the west is some pretty stiff medicine, so I can imagnie what it does to fox.

 

So...I guess it comes down to what your intentions for the fox are...kill it? Or kill it, and keep the pelt, to trade in for some $ to pay for some more components.

 

Not saying the .243 is wrong, or too much, only saying that your application and desired results need to be factored in when making the decision of which caliber to use/buy.

[bigun]

id be quids in if i got money for the fox pelts that i chucked under the hedge

[baldie]

Here,s one i finished today. Its a lawton, fitted with a border .20 cal barrel. It has an A-tec, invisible thread cap, and one of our new stainless rails. Jewell trigger, SYSS floorplate and converted magazine.

Fitted into a bell and carlson tactical stock, and finished in a flecktarn pattern duracoat.

Built a few .20,s lately, and a .20 tac very shortly.

 

[baldie]

Got a couple of archers come today for .20 practicals. [cheers Lee]

Anyone got a pet load for this cartridge........i feel it may need testing.......

[dicky]

PJ International in Kent has a RUGER .204 M77mk 2 stainless, Composite stock, Screwcut & with a 3.5-10X50 SCOPE...

 

Is £595 inc scope and rings a good price?

[MarinePMI]

Got a couple of archers come today for .20 practicals. [cheers Lee]

Anyone got a pet load for this cartridge........i feel it may need testing.......

 

Should be the same as a .20Tac (nearly identical internal dimensions). 24gr of H-322 under a 34gr HP...

[baldie]

Thanks marine.

[bradders]

Here,s one i finished today. Its a lawton, fitted with a border .20 cal barrel. It has an A-tec, invisible thread cap, and one of our new stainless rails. Jewell trigger, SYSS floorplate and converted magazine.

Fitted into a bell and carlson tactical stock, and finished in a flecktarn pattern duracoat.

Built a few .20,s lately, and a .20 tac very shortly.

 

 

 

I've got a couple of .20 cal Pac-Nor's sat here and a .20 Tac reamer in the drawer.

I've been planning on building an AR in this calibre for a while, just haven't had the chance to do it yet

[Guest Scotland Rifles]

running a .20 tactical and i love it.

 

Dakota brass

 

cci srp

 

25gr rl 1o X

 

40gr hornady V max seated 4thou of the lands.

 

best 3 shot group was 6.1mm C to C from 100yards using a front and rear bag system.

 

the rifle is based on a inter-arms mark X action with a 5 shot internal floor plated mag, a 20" 1 in 12 heavy fluted barrel, bell and Carlson stock, and is shown here in its underclothes and only weighs in at 6lb.

 

its a cracking tool for those long range corvids and foxes, and i love it to bits.

 

PS?: it was built by Mckillop rifles here in the uk

 

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7281/20tactical.jpg

[Guest Scotland Rifles]

Hi Richard,

 

the load that I am using is 27.5gn N135, Fed205M, 39gn SBK. Got the idea from Todd Kindler, although he suggested that I use RL10x. I have two tubs, still not persuaded to fix something that ain't broken.

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

 

PS: the load is safe in my gun and I take no responsibility for anyone using it in theirs.

 

 

let me know when your fed up with the rl10x tubs on the shelf.

 

bob.

[Hitmanandson]

remember all calibres work sum beter than others /i love to shoot fox /but on the sighting of one it gives me the rush more than any bunny /its all about optiums and what works when it all goes wrong /i see loads of pikkies of foxes hit a tad far bak .i dont knock any calibras .would like to try a 204 ruger so could pass coment /will say 204 sacrifies bullet weyt for velocity /but the 250 u can take small deer legaly /think shot placement /the 22 centrefires all have crossovers now different twists avaible /granted 20 cal no recoil /does it do anything different our popular 22 cals already do well.how over looked is the 222 .remember beter to hit hard close than wey out there only to be left wondering espeicaly in the dark on the lamp/out fox the fox/h

[TonyH]

remember all calibres work sum beter than others /i love to shoot fox /but on the sighting of one it gives me the rush more than any bunny /its all about optiums and what works when it all goes wrong /i see loads of pikkies of foxes hit a tad far bak .i dont knock any calibras .would like to try a 204 ruger so could pass coment /will say 204 sacrifies bullet weyt for velocity /but the 250 u can take small deer legaly /think shot placement /the 22 centrefires all have crossovers now different twists avaible /granted 20 cal no recoil /does it do anything different our popular 22 cals already do well.how over looked is the 222 .remember beter to hit hard close than wey out there only to be left wondering espeicaly in the dark on the lamp/out fox the fox/h

Thanks for comments. Bullet weight: I'd shoot 40gr bullets in 20 cal, same weight I already use in .223. I also use 22-250, first did so maybe 17 years ago, with 55gr bullets - makes a bigger mess but never noticed any superior killing power compared with lighter bullet in .223, just more MV. Deer: not interested in hunting deer. Recoil, or absence of: not a factor in .224/.204. The .222? My first centrefire, nice calibre, almost the same as .223. Hitting hard close? I'd use solid slug in a 12ga! I'm interested in varminting, i.e. long range... Does 20 cal do anything different? Better bullet BCs = flatter shooting than even 22-250 = even better for long range with even greater accuracy potential...

TonyH

[Alycidon]

[. Does 20 cal do anything different? Better bullet BCs = flatter shooting than even 22-250 = even better for long range with even greater accuracy potential...

TonyH

 

Under 300 yards you wont see to much difference between a 204 and a 223, the smaller calibers diameter means a better ballistic coefficient so a bit less drop and drift.

 

I have been using 39gr Sierra Blitz Kings on foxes of late with devastating results, accuracy is slightly better that 40gr Vmax

 

A

[TonyH]

Under 300 yards you wont see to much difference between a 204 and a 223, the smaller calibers diameter means a better ballistic coefficient so a bit less drop and drift.

 

I have been using 39gr Sierra Blitz Kings on foxes of late with devastating results, accuracy is slightly better that 40gr Vmax

 

A

Yes, I'm sure you're right. I regard "long range" as being beyond 300 yards - this distance is my notional everyday maximum for my standard .223 load using the 40gr V-Max, though I've hit a groundhog cleanly at 335 yards with this load. I'd be looking to 20 cal (still working on this scheme!) to push things out a bit - and from reading around, people seem to think well of the 39grSBK in part because it holds together at very high velocities, excellent BC too. Best twist for this 1:11, 1:12...?

TonyH

[Alycidon]

I am shooting 20BR downloaded normally and have to reload. Anything over 250 yards is a long way for me. If you are looking to take the rifle on hols to the US the 20Prac or 204 is the way to go I would have said, both should move the 39gr SBK at 3600 or so, thats where I have the BR and its a really devastating.

 

A

[Finman]

let me know when your fed up with the rl10x tubs on the shelf.

 

bob.

 

No such worries Bob: although I am happy with the N135 load, I may yet try and see what the RL10x will do out of my gun. Let alone that a certain Zaitsev already appropriated one of the RL10x tubs for his .20Tac. hell, that's what friends are for

 

and whilst we are on the subject of components, what pisses me off is the lack of (decent) brass...I still shoot the Hornady factory ones, slowly getting rid of the ones with the split neck, and I have bought 200 Nosler ones (supposedly 'ready to load'...) but I have not used these yet. I wish to God that Lapua sees the light...

 

Finman

[Alycidon]

and whilst we are on the subject of components, what pisses me off is the lack of (decent) brass...I still shoot the Hornady factory ones, slowly getting rid of the ones with the split neck, and I have bought 200 Nosler ones (supposedly 'ready to load'...) but I have not used these yet. I wish to God that Lapua sees the light...

 

Finman

 

 

Lapua do make excellent brass, I have not scrapped a case in 7 years, only use Lapua. Neck size usually with a shoulder size about every 3rd firing. I have hot loaded PPC cases on 7 or 8 cycles, I am expecting 30 plus cycles.

 

A

[jordang]

Lapua brass is why I chose the 20TAC over the 204r

[TonyH]

I am shooting 20BR downloaded normally and have to reload. Anything over 250 yards is a long way for me. If you are looking to take the rifle on hols to the US the 20Prac or 204 is the way to go I would have said, both should move the 39gr SBK at 3600 or so, thats where I have the BR and its a really devastating.

 

A

A, just curious, not knocking your practice, but if (as you seem to suggest) you don't especially want to shoot much beyond 250, why do you run a custom 20BR...? I mean, my factory .223 is more than adequate out to that range! Being a bit slow today: I don't understand your ref to taking a rifle to the USA - explain..?

Regards, Tony

[Finman]

Lapua do make excellent brass, I have not scrapped a case in 7 years, only use Lapua. Neck size usually with a shoulder size about every 3rd firing. I have hot loaded PPC cases on 7 or 8 cycles, I am expecting 30 plus cycles.

 

A

 

they do indeed, but, unfortunately, not for the .204Ruger....