Decision time New build 6mm slot - Advice please

[londonhunter]

I have a 6mm bolt rifle slot without restriction.

 

I plan to use it for foxing and shooting 300, 600 and longer if the chance arises.

 

I have had 6mmBR and 6 x 47 previously and would like something more special.

 

As a result I have a bunch of 6mmBR norma case and a bunch of 6.5 x 47 cases handy.

 

I have been offered a 308 bolt face BAT multishot with 1 in 8 twist striaght barrel .92 inch profile. ( Somebody cancelled his build) from stock.

 

I am considering a either 6 Dasher or 6 x 47 lapua ackley

 

I know a dasher is proven with more loads about but the 6 x 47 lapua will feed better.

 

My question to all you is are there any other caliber in 6mm (that fits a 308 bolt face) that I should consider ?

 

I have no issues with relaoding, neck turning and necking up or down.

 

Thanks in advance

[casts_by_fly]

I have a 6mm bolt rifle slot without restriction.

 

I plan to use it for foxing and shooting 300, 600 and longer if the chance arises.

 

I have had 6mmBR and 6 x 47 previously and would like something more special.

 

As a result I have a bunch of 6mmBR norma case and a bunch of 6.5 x 47 cases handy.

 

I have been offered a 308 bolt face BAT multishot with 1 in 8 twist striaght barrel .92 inch profile. ( Somebody cancelled his build) from stock.

 

I am considering a either 6 Dasher or 6 x 47 lapua ackley

 

I know a dasher is proven with more loads about but the 6 x 47 lapua will feed better.

 

My question to all you is are there any other caliber in 6mm (that fits a 308 bolt face) that I should consider ?

 

I have no issues with relaoding, neck turning and necking up or down.

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

 

6mm-06. Why not? It is something different, it will fit the boltface and action. You'll have to get new brass, but it gives you something you didn't already have.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[Middlestead]

243AI

[1967spud]

243 ai for me as well

[Berger]

243 Ai cant wack it

[pnse]

243 AI,as I'll be joining the club in about a week,just waiting on proof.

atb paul

 

PS if you decide on the 6x47 AI, Richard pope at swift rifles has a reamer

[Finman]

243 AI,

 

 

better yet: 6mmRemington AI. The mutts nutts! I would shy away from the 6mmDasher after I have heard reports of barrel throat gone after 500 shots...

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

[Vermincinerator]

better yet: 6mmRemington AI. The mutts nutts! I would shy away from the 6mmDasher after I have heard reports of barrel throat gone after 500 shots...

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

 

Finman is absolutely correct! the 6mm Rem Ackley is the best all round 6mm cartridge you can get

 

Ian.

[londonhunter]

Finman is absolutely correct! the 6mm Rem Ackley is the best all round 6mm cartridge you can get

 

Ian.

 

Thanks for highlighting the 6mm remington AI.

 

I did think of this cartridge previously however I discounted it since cases are not listed .........

 

Do I form it from necking 7 x 57 Norma case and then fire form ?

 

I have never come across this cartridge within my circle of friends.

 

Internet seems to suggest it is fantastic on projectiles lighter than 90 grains.

 

Since I am already commited to a 1 in 8 twist will this cartridge sustain a heavier projectile ?

 

Also my BAT multi varmint action has the following dimension will it accomodate this round ?

 

VRRPTR

Model VR Repeater

Action lenght 8.0"

1.062"X18tpi

Round action with diameter 1.35"

Port length 2.5"

Action weight 28 oz.

[Finman]

Thanks for highlighting the 6mm remington AI.

 

I did think of this cartridge previously however I discounted it since cases are not listed .........

 

Do I form it from necking 7 x 57 Norma case and then fire form ?

 

I have never come across this cartridge within my circle of friends.

 

Internet seems to suggest it is fantastic on projectiles lighter than 90 grains.

 

Since I am already commited to a 1 in 8 twist will this cartridge sustain a heavier projectile ?

 

Also my BAT multi varmint action has the following dimension will it accomodate this round ?

 

VRRPTR

Model VR Repeater

Action lenght 8.0"

1.062"X18tpi

Round action with diameter 1.35"

Port length 2.5"

Action weight 28 oz.

 

 

Hi Londonhunter,

 

I don't know about the size of the action and whether it will accomodate the 6mmRemAI. However, you have it right on the money: it is formed from 7x57 cases which are necked down to 6mm and then fireformed. The action size of the 7x57 (I am building one at the moment) is the same as the .270/30.06 family of cartridges and have the same boltface. It will indeed launch heavier 6mm bullets, much better than the .243AI, so no worries about the twist there, I am sure you will find a bullet to suit.

 

As for the internet suggestions, I think they are based on the fact that the 6mmRem was a failure as a commercial cartridge since Remington did not produce rifles with a twist faster than 1:12, which meant that it would not fire projectiles suitable for deer sized targets, as the .243 Winchester would. Hence the commercial success of the (inferior) .243Winchester... Now, I'll get my coat and wear the helmet!!

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

[Chris-NZ]

..the 6mmRem was a failure as a commercial cartridge since Remington did not produce rifles with a twist faster than 1:12, which meant that it would not fire projectiles suitable for deer sized targets, as the .243 Winchester would. Hence the commercial success of the (inferior) .243Winchester... ..

 

Finman

 

 

It was actually the .244Rem that had the slow twist and deserved to fail. The 6mm Rem is identical dimensionally but the guns have the faster twist.

 

I got caught out in this regard. Got what I thought was a 6mmRem very cheaply as a project to make my nephew his first deer gun. It barely hit the target at 100yds with 100 grainers. Once we figured out the reason and changed to 85gr Speer SPs, it was a tackdriver.

 

Chris-NZ

[Middlestead]

A friend shoots a 6mmAI, necks 7x57 brass, turns necks, bla bla bla..........for all you get for all the pissing about it isent nearly enough for all the "gain" you get over 243AI.

 

1-8 twist will shoot the heavies, I'd go 105 A-MAX/243AI, load 200 Lapua 243 brass, zero with it, practice with it, kill with it and by the time you've done all that you'll have the best part of 200 fireformed cases the easy way, no sizeing, neck turning, just shooting. Dont know about the rest of you, but I prefer shooting to preping brass............

[pnse]

Model VR Repeater

Action lenght 8.0"

1.062"X18tpi

Round action with diameter 1.35"

Port length 2.5"

Action weight 28 oz.

 

6mm rem ai,as you are going to use a short action,you will be able to single load but you will have to remove the bolt to eject a loaded round.If you load to magazine length you'll have to seat the bullets to far into the powder colum negating the benefit of using a bigger case.

 

243 ai or 6x47 ai both will feed and function through a short action mag,both will get you to 3100+ with the 105 class bullets and 3400 to 3700 with the lighter 70-87grain pills,and with one big advantage,lapua brass.

 

here are the 3 cases to give you an idea of how they stack up against each other for length.

[Alycidon]

That barrel is going to be a heavyweight isn't it?, .92 at the muzzell, thats a 16lb all up job when built, thats a hernia job when you lift it !! .

 

Anyway calibers, I suppose I better stick my oar in.

 

What are you trying to achieve here?. How many foxes do you shoot at 600 yards compared to 100 yards?, I would say that I have not shot at a 200 yard plus fox for a couple of years but my terrain may be different from yours, mine are mainly 100-180 yards. You need to have a really good lamp to give positive id at 600 yards at night, I only know of one and thats a ex military searchight a guy has mounted on a Landrover. 240 Blitz wont do it that far, yes you can see eyes but thats not enough.

 

You have already had one of the finest 6mm cartridges for foxes etc in the 6mmBR. Yes the 243AI, 6mm Rem & 6-06 will all outperfom it but dead is dead and the BR will reach to 600 yards should it ever be needed, be a struggle mind but its the same with the others 6-06 possably excepted. Foxes want lightweight fast expanding bullets, so 85gr tops really. Bigger bullets tend to punch a hole through, Ok if placement is good but an issue if not. A friend used to shoot them with a 243 and 100grs, a front chest shot always cut it a new bum hole, no expansion at all.

 

The more powder you load into a case in a given bore diameter the faster your barrell will wear, fact, just check it yourself.

 

http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/barrellifeupdate.xls

 

From the three already suggested 6-06 is based on the 30-06 case, this is a good 300 yard deer round but needs a long action I am not sure your action could accomodate this round but it forfills your criteria of unusual wildcat and long reach. Of the other two there is little to choose, the 6mm Rem Improoved would be my choice. However if it was going to be mine I would though stop with 6BR. Low recoil and more than enough for charlie with Vmax etc almost all of the time in practise and good for a 175 yard deer with an 85gr Softpoint.

 

A

[Finman]

It was actually the .244Rem that had the slow twist and deserved to fail. The 6mm Rem is identical dimensionally but the guns have the faster twist.

 

I got caught out in this regard. Got what I thought was a 6mmRem very cheaply as a project to make my nephew his first deer gun. It barely hit the target at 100yds with 100 grainers. Once we figured out the reason and changed to 85gr Speer SPs, it was a tackdriver.

 

Chris-NZ

 

Spot On Chris and I stand corrected. The early version of the 6mmRem was the .244Rem (as you correctly point out, identical to 6mmRem) which failed commercially. Remington indeed tried to correct the mistake by renaming the .244Rem to 6mmRem and producing the faster barrells, but, by that time the horse had bolted.

 

thank you for keeping me on the straight!

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

[londonhunter]

Spot On Chris and I stand corrected. The early version of the 6mmRem was the .244Rem (as you correctly point out, identical to 6mmRem) which failed commercially. Remington indeed tried to correct the mistake by renaming the .244Rem to 6mmRem and producing the faster barrells, but, by that time the horse had bolted.

 

thank you for keeping me on the straight!

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

 

Thank you for your advice.

 

Can I be very frank when I had a 6BR a few years ago, I was just getting into reloading. I was not even 50% as metiulous as I am now. Neck turning sorting cases , experimenting with seating depths so on and so forth,

 

It seems like for UK shooting distance it is really quite difficult to beat an EFFICIENT cartridge like BR such accuracy for such little powder.

 

OK

 

Last question

 

Is a 6 dasher is no more or less accurate than a 6BR. It just has slightly more powder capacity and can give up to 100 fps more than a standard BR ?

 

If so I am going back to a BR with 1 in 8 since my last BR was a second hand job with a 1 in 12

 

thanks

[Finman]

Thank you for your advice.

 

Can I be very frank when I had a 6BR a few years ago, I was just getting into reloading. I was not even 50% as metiulous as I am now. Neck turning sorting cases , experimenting with seating depths so on and so forth,

 

It seems like for UK shooting distance it is really quite difficult to beat an EFFICIENT cartridge like BR such accuracy for such little powder.

 

OK

 

Last question

 

Is a 6 dasher is no more or less accurate than a 6BR. It just has slightly more powder capacity and can give up to 100 fps more than a standard BR ?

 

If so I am going back to a BR with 1 in 8 since my last BR was a second hand job with a 1 in 12

 

thanks

 

 

Londonhunter,

 

I don't think there is much in it for either cartridge (Dasher or BR). If anything, the Dasher may have a slight edge on longer distances, but I am sure with considerably more powder, kick and barrel wear. I have a 6mmBR (1:9 border barrel) and cannot imagine myself without one ever again. Versatile, easy to shoot, accurate beyond my capabilities and a barrel life of 3000+ rounds... Has killled foxes, rabbits, crows, fallow etc up to 300yds. What more can one say?

 

If you have this fantastic action and the capacity to custom build your BR, I am sure you will end up with a rifle a lot of us would be envious of....

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

[londonhunter]

Londonhunter,

 

I don't think there is much in it for either cartridge (Dasher or BR). If anything, the Dasher may have a slight edge on longer distances, but I am sure with considerably more powder, kick and barrel wear. I have a 6mmBR (1:9 border barrel) and cannot imagine myself without one ever again. Versatile, easy to shoot, accurate beyond my capabilities and a barrel life of 3000+ rounds... Has killled foxes, rabbits, crows, fallow etc up to 300yds. What more can one say?

 

If you have this fantastic action and the capacity to custom build your BR, I am sure you will end up with a rifle a lot of us would be envious of....

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

 

Thank you for encouraging words. Gunsmith is on holiday. When he returned I will ask if he has a Dasher reasmer. If not I will go for a standard BR.

 

Saying what is so standard about a BR ? It is so awesome. I think I am like any of us on this forum wanting something superspecial since I have one go and thats is it. I dont want to get it wrong.

 

Did you have problem with getting a modify magazine to multiple a BR case ?

 

thanks in advace

[Finman]

Thank you for encouraging words. Gunsmith is on holiday. When he returned I will ask if he has a Dasher reasmer. If not I will go for a standard BR.

 

Saying what is so standard about a BR ? It is so awesome. I think I am like any of us on this forum wanting something superspecial since I have one go and thats is it. I dont want to get it wrong.

 

Did you have problem with getting a modify magazine to multiple a BR case ?

 

thanks in advace

 

Hi Londonhunter,

 

my BR is built on a Tikka M590 LH action (donated by a 22-250 rifle). It feeds very reliably from a 3 and a 5 round magazine. Mine was built by Mike Norris, some 4 years ago (c. 1200 rounds) and it still shoots .2-.3 all day with anything that I put through it. It shoots in the .1s with 87gn Hornadys (ANY 87gn Hornadys!!) and with 65gn Vmax.

 

I am not aware of any modifications on the magazine to allow for reliable feeding. The ramp on the receiver was polished and that's it as far as I can tell...

 

best wishes,

 

Finman

 

PS: don't get any more superspecial than a BR that shoots the way they do!! and not just mine, from what I see everyone here who has them would not change them

[baldie]

Dont waste your time and money with the dasher. It offers very little more, for a hell of a lot of case work, over a std 6mmbr. Switch to moly bullets, and drop the weights a little. My 6mmbr surgeon will shove a 90 grain silver scenar at 3150 fps. How much more do you need ?

Pick an action with a 2 lug bolt, and a magazine system that uses mags, that feed from a central position. They feed 100% reliably. A sako extractor is a must for a br.

[londonhunter]

Dont waste your time and money with the dasher. It offers very little more, for a hell of a lot of case work, over a std 6mmbr. Switch to moly bullets, and drop the weights a little. My 6mmbr surgeon will shove a 90 grain silver scenar at 3150 fps. How much more do you need ?

Pick an action with a 2 lug bolt, and a magazine system that uses mags, that feed from a central position. They feed 100% reliably. A sako extractor is a must for a br.

 

Thank you Baldie

 

action already here in UK however the guy who ordered it 1.5 years ago cannot go through with build due to finnacial problems.

 

I am now going for a BR no turn neck using a mutiple shot varmint BAT action and a 22-250 acis magazine

Lilja barrel 1 in 8 0.92 straight profile with fluting. Since it is a prone rifle I think I will leave it at 28 inches to make sure everything is burnt.

 

thanks again