Berger 175 lent or OTM

[Richiew]

Hi all 

Anyone got any experience using the Berger 175 OTM Bullets . Having read some of the Bryan Litz books the OTM version has better transonic stability than the long range boat tail and will suit a 1 in 12 twist barrel better . Looking for the best results at 1000+ yards from the 308 . 
cheers Rich 

[No i deer]

I believe the 185gr juggernauts are the best alround mid to longrange bullets but they need to be pushed fast enough

[Panda]

Yup, I've used them out of my 26" Remy at 1000yds. I was achieving the same results (c. 0.75 - 0.8 moa) with the 175 TOTMs set at AICS magazine length with a massive jump as I was with with 185 Juggs that were optimised for single feed. The cost, and mainly availability or rather lack of, meant I stuck with the Juggs though.

 

As an aside, I recently tested Nosler 175 RDFs set to AICS mag length at 100yds with the same sort of groups as the 175 TOTMs using N140 although the load was caning the primer pocket so they MAY have the same potential at 1000 yds but until I get a chance to try them on the range I can't confirm that potential (I ran N150 through QuickLoadbut the velocity at 1000 wasn't predicted to be fast enough to record on the ShotMarker system). I went back and pressure tested using RS52 which I think will be a better powder option but until the ranges open again next year I won't know for certain if I can find a load that works when the cartridge is built to mag length. What drew me to the RDFs was actually the price because at what I picked them up for I would have been happy to use them for plinking, McQueens or 1000 yd competitions (if I got them working!). However, and it's a massive however, the price has spiked alarmingly since I got my 1st box back in September with £69/100 quoted on 1 suppliers website recently although I did manage to get a box at £53. The RFD told me they were likely to be £59/100 the next time IF he could actually source any.

[No i deer]

There isn't any cheap good bullets anymore really..

There is alot of FTR shooters on this website including alot team GB f class FTR shooters and this year's European champion so there's all the knowledge you need on here.

You may find its down too personal preference..

Between them they've tried every bullet going..

I think recently the piggy jacks are being tested and some have been trying the A tips.. now these are the most expensive at nearly a quid each 😅

[Richiew]

Hi there best wishes for the new year guys and gals 

thanks for the replies , got about 500 of Berger 175 LRBT and 185 jugs  trying to get them to 2600 FPS currently using 44g of N150 . The 175 OTM s apparently have a longer boat tail for better transonic ness , hard to get hold of tho . Will report back findings as the 175s work well and the 185s need more speed yet . Only got up to 2400 with past loads  .

 

 Cheers 

[Panda]

I'm getting 2594fps with the 185 juggs in a 26" tube with 44.5gns of N150 from a CBTO of 2.341" with an 80 thou jump. I just couldn't get them any closer whilst having enough of the shank in the case to grip securely. That set up gives a retained velocity at 1000yds of 1249fps. 

 

Hope that helps Richiew. No point trying to reinvent the wheel, with the proviso that what may be safe in my rifle may not be in yours.

[Richiew]

Cheers Panda

now that’s more like the speed I’m looking for . 44 g of N150 was to be my next load to try so I’ll load up 44 and 44.5 and try them out . In my accuracy international AT with 26” barrel 2.234 cbto seems to work well giving 2.9” coal so ok for magazine loading . This also gives approx 260 thou of bullet shank in the case neck so just enough to make the edge of the boat tail line up at the end of the neck area , bottom of the bullet is approx at the top of the wide part of the case where it joins the angled part  . Hope that makes sense . Many thanks for the info .

best regards.  Rich 

[No i deer]

Yes that makes sense.

I think the FTR shooters run their juggs at over 2800fps in there longer barrel

[Panda]

4 hours ago, Richiew said:

Cheers Panda

now that’s more like the speed I’m looking for . 44 g of N150 was to be my next load to try so I’ll load up 44 and 44.5 and try them out . In my accuracy international AT with 26” barrel 2.234 cbto seems to work well giving 2.9” coal so ok for magazine loading . This also gives approx 260 thou of bullet shank in the case neck so just enough to make the edge of the boat tail line up at the end of the neck area , bottom of the bullet is approx at the top of the wide part of the case where it joins the angled part  . Hope that makes sense . Many thanks for the info .

best regards.  Rich 

Hi Rich,

At magazine length I suspect you'll be into compressed loads with the N150 but the only way to know for sure is to give it a try. Let us know how you get on.

[Panda]

3 hours ago, No i deer said:

Yes that makes sense.

I think the FTR shooters run their juggs at over 2800fps in there longer barrel

I'm also running 185 juggs at 2840 fps using srp cases and RS52 out of a 32" Bartlien barrel on a Savage dual port action quite comfortably. I was almost at 2900 fps when I ran out of prepared ammo but as there was a good accuracy node at 2840 I saw no point in trying to find the even faster one since 2840 gave me everything I required.

[No i deer]

The gain would be so little it's not worth stressing the brass and the barrel for 👍

[Richiew]

Thanks for all the info . Cheers Panda I’ll report back next time out at the range how the 185’s perform . Happy new year to all 

[Richiew]

Hi all 

A very windy day at Whitfell 6K wind coming from left and behind at 7 o’clock ish but the 185 juggernaut s performed great . 44.5 grains. N150 , coal 2.9” , cbto 2.236 “ . Ever so slightly compressed load ie sometimes a little crunch when at the top of the stroke on the press but if the case was tapped a few times to settle the powder all was good with no crunch  . Will chrono them next time . Thanks to all the replies especially Panda  . We now have another favourite load  five shots in the photo could have done much better if we weren’t getting blown about so much . Cheers 

[Panda]

Hi Rich.

Nicely shot. Im happy to see that the load worked for you 🙂. I had a feeling it would be close as several people have used the data quite successfully with just a little tweaking. Hopefully it'll give you the speed you're looking for once you run the load over the chrony.

Out of interest, are you using a long drop tube for the powder if tapping the cases seems to settle the powder enough to stop compressed loads? If not, then I'd recommend getting a hold of, or manufacture one. 

Panda

[Richiew]

Hi Panda

thanks for the info , 5 shot group there and we were getting blown about in the fox holes a lot . No pressure signs and primers ok - federal 210 normals and fiocchi , I’ll look into a longer drop tube  any recommendations?? . Tried a load at 45 and 46 grains but those were very crunchy so only made a couple and the bullet pushed out a bit over time . Cheers 

[Panda]

Hi Richie.

 

Personally I just use a proprietary Forster drop tube, however, within the members of one of the clubs I am in we have two people with their own lathes who have made themselves 10 or 12 inch drop tubes using aluminium tubing bought from a wholesaler and manufacturing their own collet for the case neck and interface for a funnel.

 

Panda

[Richiew]

Cheers for info I’ll check sizes of tube at work an see how it fits onto the 308 neck . Seen some by 21st century that look quite good  . Was also thinking of loading a tray up of cases then putting it on top of the tumbler for a few minutes . 
Thanks Rich 

[Richiew]

Hi all 

finally got some Berger 175 OTM bullets , they are about 80 thou shorter than the juggernaut s so the COAL of the round will be closer to 2.82 . Closer in shape to sierra MatchKings with a long boat tail so very transonic stable . Will report back when the ranges reopen. Stay safe .

 Cheers Rich 

[Panda]

I actually discovered I still have about 150 of the 175 TOTMs in the bottom of my store box tucked away below the juggs. I may pull them out to compare them to the Nosler 175 RDFs during my enforced home period as I can't find any data on the Noslers other than length and bc.

[Richiew]

Have fun playing with bullets  , had a nosler  loading manual but gave it away to a mate think it covered the rdfs  .just waiting for my order of new jugs to come through the post from CDSG  . 500 in a box should keep me going when the virus clears up .Also got a Dandy products trickler that’s working great so should have some very well measured out powder . Stay safe 

cheers 

[Panda]

Richie, I'm going to really depress you now...... my mate had 1000 x 185 juggs for sale on here a few weeks ago. He's having to give up shooting unfortunately. You may have missed them as the were included on a list but in the headline grabbing "Varget for sale".

[Richiew]

Hi Panda

unfortunately already had my order in place when I saw tha juggs on here  . Ho hum  . Lots of bullets to load up when the virus passes . The 175 Berger LRBT were good at 700 yards on the milk jug at eskdalemuir and ok to 1000  when running at 2638 FPS  . 600 yard max at club shoots . So it’s short range stuff ha ha . Hope Gardner’s get the new range sorted . 
Cheers and stay safe 

[Andrew]

On 4/3/2020 at 2:09 PM, Panda said:

I actually discovered I still have about 150 of the 175 TOTMs in the bottom of my store box tucked away below the juggs. I may pull them out to compare them to the Nosler 175 RDFs during my enforced home period as I can't find any data on the Noslers other than length and bc.

I use the 175 RDF out to 1100 (so far) in my 1-10" 308. I like them quite a bit. I used IMR4064 as fuel but am considering a shift to Shooter's World (Lovex) Match Rifle. Our targets are MOA plates over varying, open terrain that has shifting wind patterns (right left, up hill and down) and I didn't have any misses that couldn't be attributed to wind or me. All prone off of a bipod.

Due to my location, I can get RDF's at a discount from Nosler so I stocked up before the CV19 buying hit. I'll be shooting them for a while.~Andrew

PS: I seat them to Nosler's recommended OAL

[Richiew]

Hi there

much nicer to have a 1:10 twist than my 1:12 . I now have lots of bergers to play with and some Amax’s in 155 grain for the shorter range stuff these go very well with 42.5 to 43 grains of N135  at @ 2.234 cbto  for the club 300m shoots . Stuck at home but the gardens looking great . Stay safe