Help removing the bolt Face case plunger on my Tikka TAC 1??

[chaz]

Hi folks.

I've seen a way of setting/altering the bullet depth to just off the lands on a you-tube video link from off (I Believe) this forum??. I've done a quick search with no results..

I'm getting mixed results from my over all length gauge, and comparator. So i'd like to try the You-Tube way. The only problem is i need to remove the bolt head case plunger, to keep the dummy round straight. But i can't find any instructional video's anywhere... I know how to remove the shroud, and firing pin assembly. However, i'm not sure on how to remove the ejector plunger, as it looks linked to the extractor which i need to keep in place. It also looks like there are springs(s) and a roll pin. I'm not brave enough to just use a drift to drive the role pin out as i may cause damage that may not be obvious to the untrained eye.

I've been told it's a 'simple' process, but that's but a couple of people i have no faith in,  (Not from this forum i hasten to add)......                                                                                                  So. I'd really appreciate some advice on the procedure. It won't be a common procedure as i only use 3 types of bullets. And links, or guidance would be much appreciated.                    Cheers.                                                                                        

Chaz.

[baldie]

Dead simple chaz.

Get a suitable sized pin punch, and insert it , into what looks like the correct hole. The pin will go at least half way in, as the retaining roll pin is only about 5mm long.

grasp the bolt and cover the bolt face with your thumb, and tap the pin out via its shortest route. One face of the pin will be visible on the bolt side, tap it out backwards.

Refitting is the reverse.

I can compress an ejector on a rifle with my thumb, but a lot can't.

Get an old case and nip it up into the vice. Use the case head to compress the ejector with, whilst re inserting the pin.

[chaz]

2 hours ago, baldie said:

Dead simple chaz.

Get a suitable sized pin punch, and insert it , into what looks like the correct hole. The pin will go at least half way in, as the retaining roll pin is only about 5mm long.

grasp the bolt and cover the bolt face with your thumb, and tap the pin out via its shortest route. One face of the pin will be visible on the bolt side, tap it out backwards.

Refitting is the reverse.

I can compress an ejector on a rifle with my thumb, but a lot can't.

Get an old case and nip it up into the vice. Use the case head to compress the ejector with, whilst re inserting the pin.

Thanks Baldie. Apologies for my stupidity, but there's a small hole that leads all the way through the bolt. At the one end i can see the end of the roll pin. (Nearest the plunger from memory)  I'm presuming the pin kind of reverses out of that hole while i depress the plunger, or at least cover the face of the bolt as you've said. Once sorted then i presume after marking the front of the roll pin it goes back into the bolt the same way it came out? Also, will i need to depress the plunger before and after tapping the roll pin in and out?                                               I presume no other parts will be affected by me tapping the roll pin out and in?                               Cheers                                                                                                                                                            Chaz.

[baldie]

Correctamundo Chaz. Very simple to do.

The pin has a chamfered face to ease insertion [ Ooh err missus ]

The ejector has a  slot in its side , where the roll pin will captivate it. Its self explanatory once you tap the pin out.

A drop or two of light oil on the ejector pin doesn't hurt on re assembly . 

[chaz]

Spot on. Cheers Baldie, much appreciated.

[Catch-22]

5 hours ago, chaz said:

Hi folks.

I've seen a way of setting/altering the bullet depth to just off the lands on a you-tube video link from off (I Believe) this forum??. I've done a quick search with no results..

I'm getting mixed results from my over all length gauge, and comparator. So i'd like to try the You-Tube way. The only problem is i need to remove the bolt head case plunger, to keep the dummy round straight. But i can't find any instructional video's anywhere... I know how to remove the shroud, and firing pin assembly. However, i'm not sure on how to remove the ejector plunger, as it looks linked to the extractor which i need to keep in place. It also looks like there are springs(s) and a roll pin. I'm not brave enough to just use a drift to drive the role pin out as i may cause damage that may not be obvious to the untrained eye.

I've been told it's a 'simple' process, but that's but a couple of people i have no faith in,  (Not from this forum i hasten to add)......                                                                                                  So. I'd really appreciate some advice on the procedure. It won't be a common procedure as i only use 3 types of bullets. And links, or guidance would be much appreciated.                    Cheers.                                                                                        

Chaz.

Chaz,

i wonder if you are looking for these videos...I posted them in the 'Handloading' section in another thread.

 

[chaz]

I've stripped the bolt, and removed the plunger. Just leaving the extractor in place. Just the job i thought....

I slide the bolt in, and close it. It goes in and closes as easy and as smooth as silk, with no resistance at all. In fact the bolt drops under it's own weight. Like in the video i watched.... 

We're on our was, so i think. I then put a new sized Lapua case (No bullet inside) onto the bolt face, which is held in by the extractor. I close the bolt, yet the bolt is stiff!?? The case is to spec, at 1.920". So my Lee 2nd Edition tells me, along with my calipers. I try another sized case which is a little shorter, still no joy, and still a stiff bolt on closing. Gradually i shorten the brass case until it's 1.845". Yet still i have a stiff bolt on closing. Where or what am i doing wrong?? It's very frustrating......

I just fully sized the 1.845" case and tried again, but it made no difference. I then tried my shop bought modified case, and the bolt closed a lot easier. Why would that be the case?

Any constructive advice would be greatly appreciated.....

Cheers

Chaz.

[baldie]

Try a piece of virgin unsized brass in the gun. In fact, try several. It should close with no resistance on this brass.

If it does, then you are oversizing your brass, and possibly bulging it somewhere.

If its tight on unsized virgin brass, there is a headspace issue, and it should be checked.

[chaz]

I've had another go today...                                                                                                                                   virgin brass fits a treat, and the bolt drops freely when one new virgin piece of brass is chambered. After full sizing some of the non virgin brass, some caused the bolt to drop with no resistance . Yet some of the full length sized brass caused the bolt to bind. I'm puzzled why some fits and some doesn't, despite being sized the same? Looking at both the Neck sized and FL sized, the bottom of the dies are chamfered.  Could this be the problem. As in not sizing the case far enough down the case head? They've always been ok in the past. The dies are Hornady 'Custom' dies. I've had great results in my .223....

[bradders]

You're not bumping the shoulder back, get a cartridge case headspace gauge and measure the base to shoulder dimension on new vs your resized brass

[chaz]

A head space gauge did cross my mind. As did a body die. If a head space gauge shows there's a problem. Would a body die push the shoulders back to help solve the problem?                        Thanks

[bradders]

Yes, but I'd go one step at a time first

[Catch-22]

3 hours ago, chaz said:

I've had another go today...                                                                                                                                   virgin brass fits a treat, and the bolt drops freely when one new virgin piece of brass is chambered. After full sizing some of the non virgin brass, some caused the bolt to drop with no resistance . Yet some of the full length sized brass caused the bolt to bind. I'm puzzled why some fits and some doesn't, despite being sized the same? Looking at both the Neck sized and FL sized, the bottom of the dies are chamfered.  Could this be the problem. As in not sizing the case far enough down the case head? They've always been ok in the past. The dies are Hornady 'Custom' dies. I've had great results in my .223....

Have you checked that the inside of the die, up top where the expander mandrel/pin screws into? I've not used Hornady dies but have experienced similar problems if the top of the die is screwed down too deeply.

The brass, if slightly too long, can contact against the top of the die preventing the shoulder from being bumped back sufficiently. Worth a check first before you go buying extra stuff.

[Catch-22]

Link to a previous topic in which the OP had a similar issue to yours. Last post explains the diagnosis and fix

http://ukvarminting.com/topic/41884-another-headspace-headache/?do=findComment&comment=326857

 

[chaz]

Good news this morning folks. And thanks to all for the help. I did what 'Miseryguts' did on the thread Catch-22 showed me. I removed the mandrel and mandrel rod. Then sized half a dozen of the 'problem' brass through the full length die without the mandrel parts fitted and all the brass fitted great! I haven't neck sized the brass yet, but i'm hoping all will be well when i do this... 

I can't believe 1 firing can push the shoulder forward! It's makes me wonder if i should fully size all my brass after firing, as apposed to de-capping, then neck sizing until i get a shoulder problem... Perhaps i'll need to do this anyhow, going on the problems I've had??

Silly question......I have around 30 pieces of new brass, which are 1.909" in length from mouth to base, and a good portion of the rest is now 1.905". I presume it's OK to trim all of the brass to 1.905"? I regret trimming it now, but i did it out frustration while trying to sort out the issue. I'd prefer to do this as it's obviously better for consistency.

Cheers

Chas

[bradders]

.004", or the thickness of two hairs on your head will make absolutely no difference

My opinion.....neck sizing is for fools!

[chaz]

2 hours ago, bradders said:

.004", or the thickness of two hairs on your head will make absolutely no difference

My opinion.....neck sizing is for fools!

Cheers for the imput Bradders.

Having just checked it's .003 off so even better!

I've always wondered about this, do you FL size or NS until the shoulders need bumping. Strikes me as a bit of a       .177 vs .22 situation.....

I've now seated my 3 different bullets just of the lands, just enough so the bolt drops down freely. Albeit I've quite a few pieces of brass to shoulder bump, using my FL die without the mandrel and mandrel rod in, then neck size for convenience as it's set up for the cases. After that, i'm not sure, FL or NS...

[Catch-22]

For what it's worth, I used to neck size only (Wilson dies and Arbour press) but if you think about what handloading is trying to achieve and that's completely consistent ammunition. You can't achieve that NS only because each case (as you've demonstrated) will all show slightly different dimensions after firing. When FL sizing, you're ensuring not only all your bullets will chamber without issue but they're all sized (shoulder & body) the same. This produces consistent ammo.

i do however like being able to control neck tension, to perfect the grip depending on the bullets used. For this reason, I bought a set of Whidden FL dies which also NS the case at the same time (using Wilson or Redding bushings). So with the Whidden's I believe you get the best of both worlds!

I must say that AFTER sizing, I use a Sinclair Expander Mandrel to open the neck. The sizing operation compresses the neck inwards and pushes any dimensional inconsistencies to the inside of the neck. This means you get variances in grip force on the bullet around the circumference of the neck. Not good!

But using an expander mandrel after sizing, forces any inconsistencies outward, to the outside of the neck. This leaves the inside circumference of the neck concentric and thus grip tension on the bullet the same.

Some good articles here:

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/expander-mandrels-and-neck-tension/

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2017/10/stop-neck-sizing-why-you-should-full-length-size-your-brass/

[chaz]

1 hour ago, Catch-22 said:

For what it's worth, I used to neck size only (Wilson dies and Arbour press) but if you think about what handloading is trying to achieve and that's completely consistent ammunition. You can't achieve that NS only because each case (as you've demonstrated) will all show slightly different dimensions after firing. When FL sizing, you're ensuring not only all your bullets will chamber without issue but they're all sized (shoulder & body) the same. This produces consistent ammo.

i do however like being able to control neck tension, to perfect the grip depending on the bullets used. For this reason, I bought a set of Whidden FL dies which also NS the case at the same time (using Wilson or Redding bushings). So with the Whidden's I believe you get the best of both worlds!

I must say that AFTER sizing, I use a Sinclair Expander Mandrel to open the neck. The sizing operation compresses the neck inwards and pushes any dimensional inconsistencies to the inside of the neck. This means you get variances in grip force on the bullet around the circumference of the neck. Not good!

But using an expander mandrel after sizing, forces any inconsistencies outward, to the outside of the neck. This leaves the inside circumference of the neck concentric and thus grip tension on the bullet the same.

Some good articles here:

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/expander-mandrels-and-neck-tension/

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2017/10/stop-neck-sizing-why-you-should-full-length-size-your-brass/

I'll have a good read, and take on board the points mentions. And i'll have a good look at the links.

Thanks for the imput, much appreciated Catch-22.

Chaz.

 

[VarmLR]

I FL size everything now.   Neck sizing is something I only ever did with the 223 when I wanted to quickly recycle fired brass for vermin control rounds as it meant I didn't have to lube each case and then clean them.  For precision work, I set my FL die to bump shoulders back just 1 thou off fire formed.  I don't believe it makes any difference to brass life as I always have primer pockets come loose way before I have any waisting or other brass issues.  In fact, this thread is a good reminder for me to put my neck sizing dies into the classifieds...

Never had the mandrel rod issues but then again I usually only use Redding or Lee dies.