That bald headed Geordie Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Hi, a friend of mine is going to manufacture me a Heavy Gun aluminium stock (for HG benchrest / fun stuff - 600 yds to 1000 yds) and has got a GB Barrels 6mm barrel ordered for me. My original cunning plan is to have it chambered in a no turn neck 6BR using a 105gr bullet. But after looking at the 6 Dasher which I know a few shooters use at 1000yds, I was wondering what were the upsides/downsides in having it chambered in the Dasher (no turn neck preferred). Are getting standard dies an issue or is fireforming a pain in the ass, and are there any other negative or positive aspects of this iteration of 6BR improved case. Any info appreciated. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyw Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Les -straight 6br no- f+++++ng about fire forming also the dies are easier to get hold of although Spud will help you out with dasher dies. in my view the dasher has the edge and a bit more horse power but on the day the 6br can hold its own look at the results at Diggle that will tell you something. And where did you conjure up a friend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That bald headed Geordie Posted October 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Les -straight 6br no- f+++++ng about fire forming also the dies are easier to get hold of although Spud will help you out with dasher dies. in my view the dasher has the edge and a bit more horse power but on the day the 6br can hold its own look at the results at Diggle that will tell you something. And where did you conjure up a friend? Cheers you cheeky git Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 And where did you conjure up a friend? He had to come to Scotland to find them Gary :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Pimp Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Les - a no-turn neck is not really an option with a Dasher if you are forming the brass from 6BR. Just go for my no-turn neck 6BR chamber - that which promotes growth and vigour, it holds the UK record for 1000 yd Light Gun. (Then I can beat you with my Dasher!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That bald headed Geordie Posted October 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Les - a no-turn neck is not really an option with a Dasher if you are forming the brass from 6BR. Just go for my no-turn neck 6BR chamber - that which promotes growth and vigour, it holds the UK record for 1000 yd Light Gun. (Then I can beat you with my Dasher!) Brilliant Vince. Will chat soon about options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That bald headed Geordie Posted October 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 He had to come to Scotland to find them Gary :-D True, a great bunch of lads up at the Gelston range and had a good laugh. I'll be back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarovski1 Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Les - a no-turn neck is not really an option with a Dasher if you are forming the brass from 6BR. Just go for my no-turn neck 6BR chamber - that which promotes growth and vigour, it holds the UK record for 1000 yd Light Gun. (Then I can beat you with my Dasher!) he use to say that to Tony until he beat vince 's 1k record with the 6mm br rifle vince built ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mole-e30 Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Les - a no-turn neck is not really an option with a Dasher if you are forming the brass from 6BR. Just go for my no-turn neck 6BR chamber - that which promotes growth and vigour, it holds the UK record for 1000 yd Light Gun. (Then I can beat you with my Dasher!) +1 on what Vince said....... 6BR holds the 600 yard records for Light Gun Group and agg too....... I had the same debate and ended up with a 6BR for exactly the reasons Vince said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That bald headed Geordie Posted October 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 +1 on what Vince said....... 6BR holds the 600 yard records for Light Gun Group and agg too....... I had the same debate and ended up with a 6BR for exactly the reasons Vince said. Hi Bruce, I do fancy the Dasher but don't think I could be bothered with turning necks, fireforming with a stepped neck etc, so up to now I will go with the bog standard 6BR cartridge/chambering. Unless someone convinces me it is worth the effort, then I will have a rethink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Only the shooter can make decisions based on willingness to do more case preparation and other essentially non ballistic issues-and that would include costs. Here are some considerations on the performance issues: Records are always temporary. Does either cartridge have ballistic or shootability advantage,overall? What is the track record for each cartridge,if shooter competence and frequency of use are controlled? What odds would you take on the next record being made by one or by the other (assuming equal shooter competence,and equal frequency of useage for the two cartridges? Do you think that had the record setting shooter been shooting the alternate cartridge on the day,then the record would/not been set-or actually improved? GIve a coherent rational reason for your answer to the preceding question (indeed,all of them). (It's the standard very general control group' question: yes,the result observed is sound,but is the main variable (that cartridge) the only one that could give that result? Widely neglected,leading to unjustified decisions,though seldom critical when the options are very closely matched (despite nagging doubts.) It's a hobby,and sometimes too close to call - the mathS are typically probabilistic. :-) gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That bald headed Geordie Posted October 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 George, just what I was thinking over a cup of tea and a dunked gingernut biscuit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Ha ha,of course,if you did it with a dunked doughnut instead,you'd remember-as I just have- that you need to do it all for different atmospheric conditions too and then integrate over the variables....giving the "6mm EL Yogi BooBoo Dasher BR Mini Magnum" (Bench Rest;Emily Lenton.) Simples. Sleep on it. g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That bald headed Geordie Posted October 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Doughnuts, Magnums, feeling in need of something sweet now George! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 Doughnuts, Magnums, feeling in need of something sweet now George! Les,your new rifle will be eye candy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That bald headed Geordie Posted October 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 Some say I am sweet enough George! Others tell the truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarovski1 Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 It does make sense to go 6mm br, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 It does make sense to go 6mm br, Why? There is eg very good commercial 6BR ammo-though few use it in the UK, -It's too expensive! Pros and cons. Hard to argue that the 6BR has a ballistic advantage. I wish one of mine was a Dasher. gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Pimp Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 Side by side, the 6mm Dasher will outshoot the 6BR. BUT the Dasher needs a lot of case prep. - which means things can go wrong..... Also, having put so much effort into brass prep. means that you tend to run your brass too long (shoot it too many times) - but annealing may help here (hope so). With the 6BR, you can always be shooting good brass with little prep. That's why IMHO the BR often beats the Dasher. The new factory Dasher brass from Norma could sort this out. Especially as it has a BR-length neck! However, we ain't seen any as yet - but the reamer's on order...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That bald headed Geordie Posted October 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 Side by side, the 6mm Dasher will outshoot the 6BR. BUT the Dasher needs a lot of case prep. - which means things can go wrong..... Also, having put so much effort into brass prep. means that you tend to run your brass too long (shoot it too many times) - but annealing may help here (hope so). With the 6BR, you can always be shooting good brass with little prep. That's why IMHO the BR often beats the Dasher. The new factory Dasher brass from Norma could sort this out. Especially as it has a BR-length neck! However, we ain't seen any as yet - but the reamer's on order...... That is interesting Vince re the Norma Dasher brass so that could possibly be an option. Plenty of time to decide as the barrel is a long way off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Pimp Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 An option? Yes - for ME!! No seriously - it could be a bit of a game-changer - if it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That bald headed Geordie Posted October 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 An option? Yes - for ME!! No seriously - it could be a bit of a game-changer - if it happens. good one Vince and will be interesting to see what you think of the Norma brass and how it performs against the Lapua fireformed brass and also any 6BR. See you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redshift Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 I'm not really sure why people go on about the agro of fire forming a dasher case, the 2 common methods are false shoulder and bullet jam, all I do is run a 7mm mandrel down the neck, then run the cases through a full length die, job done, the other way is to set the bullet to a jam in the lands and fire it, not hard either way. If you have a brand new barrel etc the you can sight and run in while fire forming, you can use different powders at the same time ( not in the same case obviously) to see what the barrel likes. Job done. Redshift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Pimp Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 Yeh easy - one of mine's a 22 Dasher though. You're spot on with the false shoulder method - bullet jam is not 100% reliable. But, it's still several processes plus a visit or two to the range. The Norma dasher will cut that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That bald headed Geordie Posted October 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 Thanks for all the inputs. I have decided to go for a no neck turn 6BR chambering and will use the Berger 105gr hybrid or perhaps the VLD. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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