Watch this space

[Elwood]

Redfox

 

And people except this no questions asked.You are starting to sound like one of the retards that has been ejected off here.

 

So a guy expresses his opinions and concerns in what I read as a polite and constructive way and he's likened to a retard, personally I would say he got a raw deal.

[Redfox]

Chris, the misses were not posted by me, others posted them, I am a long way off a retard and can actually spell too.

Whenever your losing an argument or dont agree with the poster you seem to quickly degenerate into name calling.

I did not say I disagreed, I pointed out that we might get a lot of publicity we didnt want which is responsible and caring about the future of the site, not my personal aspirations.

Just remember there are over 56 million people who live in the UK and less than 150,000 shoot rifles, so if they decide to take it away what are you going to do? absolutely nothing is the answer.

I had a similar conversation with one of the pistol shooters association leaders not long after Dunblane and he said they are never going to stop us, I was right, in less than 6 months it had all gone.

A bit of sense and we will continue for a long time, stick it under their noses and we will be history faster than a burning newspaper.

Redfox

[Ronin]

Without the forum degenerating into a peeing contest again, I think there are some valid points being made here on both sides of the argument.

 

 

Many of us have been taking animals and targets at extended ranges for years without feeling the need to publish the exact details.

 

 

The site also remember has a no ethic's discussed stance, we can justify our actions to ourselves.

 

 

In these days of hightened awareness of the anti's, we (thats all of us who shoot) need to be aware that the anti brigade are very clued up and WILL use any tactic to bring our sport into bad press.

 

It was and still is socially unacceptable to shoot larger quarry at long ranges - despite the fact that rifles do shoot accurately beyond 100 yards these days.

 

You only have to look at the comments made in the sporting magazines from "disgruntled of xxx" who says its damn unsporting to shoot animals over 100yds, you have to get close etc etc - we have all seen it.

 

 

The very same people arrive at sporting rifle shoots and after a poor performance claim they have never had a deer run off wounded and "I dont need to practise on paper" - sure you know what I mean.....

 

 

 

Now, I believe that we should be able to do what we do, so long as its humane.

 

We have to accept that long range shooting is still a niche area of sport in the UK, despite spending £1000's on the right tools and regular practice, untill its seen as an achievement to place shots at longer ranges by "the masses" it will remain in the limelight and we will be snubbed.

 

 

I think the site has the right balance now the section has been altered.

[Wsm]

Its obvious that we`ve got varying opinions on this subject but please lets not start attacking each other for having different views that we don`t happen to agree with

 

I think Andy has hit the nail squarely on the head and I`m sure judging by the responce that the new forum will flourish under the guidance of Ray and Dave who is our latest moderator by the way

[Redfox]

I entirely agree with Ronin and WSM, it is a site to enjoy a common sport and info and long may it continue.

I personally, after seeing some of the posts , feel the need for a 6mmBR as soon as funds allow.

Redfox

[silentsoulsleave308holes]

so please kindly tell me this:

 

I am a site member, I see a good thing in the starting of long range club having 300, 500, 750 & 1000

 

one member rightfully or wrongfully posted something that upset another or a few and as a result the 750 and the 1000 have been removed instead of a) politely contacting the person in question and asking him if he can ammend his statement as it was considered by some to be wrong or B ) if the member was'nt willing to do so then a mod modifying the statement and pointing out that in the future the site will only except such shots on small quarry

 

if a majority of members would like the 750 and 1000 section put back on (with a ruling that only shots taken at small quarry) that you are saying that you and the other mods wont listen to the members and put it back on??????

 

I am very confused??????????????/one minute you say that its only excepable to shoot small quarry at these distances and the next implying that the site would not change as "you" feel the site has the right ballance now it has been ammended

 

another question is how is it ok to post say a shot of say 750 in the 500+ but not ok to post it in a 750 or 1000 catagory???????????????????? thats crazy?????? the majority of members I am sure would like the 750 and 1000 section

 

many are either shooting at these distances or interested in doing so in the future

 

next it will be the mods "lock the discussion" like the last time there was issue with a rifle smith not delivering the goods

 

I was neither for or against the issue in question as I had never bought or ordered any thing from him but felt I had something usefull to ad then found out the mods had blocked everying one from posting but then later re-opend it to allow themselves and the individual to post before closing it again so members could not respond??????????????????

 

sounds kinda unfair to me

 

so whats happening? are we going to have a 750 & 1000 added or what? is it wrong to shoot at these ranges on smalls or not?

[Guest northernchris]

Redfox

 

If the cap fits Did i call you a "retard"?????????? NO i said you where starting to sound like one of those that had been ejected from here. The only person you will ever see me name calling at is the spineless wonder that uses the name Harry and people that sound and act like the ######.So pick up your dummy.

 

Anyway BACK ON TOPIC you are right in saying that this is a hard subject to tackle but posting the subject in one of the mags would help out our "niche" sport by hopefully explaining how we go about getting the job done in a competent manner.

[Ronin]

Jamie

 

I can't comment why the 750 and 1000 yd sections were pulled - not my decision.

 

I was contacted by a fellow mod over the weekend who had concerns over a post in that section that may have been fuel for the anti's fire, whilst thinking about a suitable response, the area was changed to its curent form.

 

Whether there is a section for 300, 500, 750, 1000 yard shots is really imaterial.

 

Personaly I think that a shot under 300 is not really worth comment - lets face it most of us can shoot a small grooup at this range and place our shots (providing the wind isnt blowing)

 

300+ - yes beyond this distance the wind become an issue and it takes skill to place your shot as your fighting trajectory and any physical influence (wind)

 

500+? yup definately a place for this, but any shot above this distance is exceptional on a small target, so why not place all shots above this in here?

 

Even in the "liberated" states, the guys from Long Range Hunting and Precision Long Range Hunting forums are seen as mavericks, pushing the boundaries of whats "right"

 

Now, there are loads of people who enjoy our sport (rifle shooting) interested in long range, many many more than even five years ago, one only has to see the ads in the sporting press foir precision builds to understand that views and opinions are changing, BUT this change will be slow.

 

Softly softly, catch, the monkey......

[tulkyuk]

Well Said Andy

 

Come on guys, lets stop all this bickering and get on with what we do best - shooting Varmints

[Vermincinerator]

For the guys who have already conquered the 300yd and 500yd kills they deserve a goal to aim for just like those who aspire to 300 and 500yd kills, hence i think the 750yd and 1000yd categories should be re-introduced, however IMO, quary should only be small ground mammals and bird species which are classified on an FAC as pests or vermin.

 

Ian.

[charly hunter]

If folks on here are not worried about the anti's and are preparied to stand up and be counted why is it that the thread of the 800 yd fox has been removed?????

 

It seems to me of late this site is becoming over moderated, hence I have put very little on here of late.

[kip270]

If folks on here are not worried about the anti's and are preparied to stand up and be counted why is it that the thread of the 800 yd fox has been removed?????

 

It seems to me of late this site is becoming over moderated, hence I have put very little on here of late.

 

 

It's not a case of being over-moderated just a case of not giving anyone any ammo to bring us down. We have all jumped through hoops to get our rifle's, some more than others, but we aim to make sure we keep them and carry on doing what we enjoy.

 

Now while some people are happy to shoot under MOA at 500-1000 yards on paper, others are using the equipment what it was designed for, GUNS WERE AND ARE DESIGNED TO KILL, end of. Now if you can shoot and hit the desired target at the ranges you practice on PAPER/BALLONS etc, and it is the same size as the vital area on VARMINTS, you are the one who squeezes the trigger and no-one makes you do it.

 

When i started shooting, 200 yards was long range for me,(having shot air-rilfes for many years) but now i am shooting further and if not 110% confident, no shot, simple.

 

So come on Guy's let's stay on track and keep this site running as it should, sharing and being helpfull with fellow shooters

[shootingbags]

If folks on here are not worried about the anti's and are preparied to stand up and be counted why is it that the thread of the 800 yd fox has been removed?????

 

It seems to me of late this site is becoming over moderated, hence I have put very little on here of late.

The reason the thread was removed was that at 800 yards there is a high possibility of wounding a fox - you CANNOT guarantee a kill. He even said that his first shot missed and that 1st shot could have been in a part of the fox that would not have killed it but would have caused a lot of suffering.

 

With smaller creatures, if you hit them in pretty much any part of their body with a high velocity round even at that distance, you a pretty much guaranteed of killing them.

 

If you do not have any moral issues with shooting foxes at this distance then we are not telling you not to do it but, it won't be posted on here.

 

In the US pretty much all of the long range 'varmint' shooting is at prairie dogs and ground squirrels which are a lot smaller than a rabbit - I have done it myself and don't have a problem with this.

 

I hope this answers your question.

[silentsoulsleave308holes]

I think you are missing the point there

 

I am not saying that we should or should not shoot at foxes at longer range???????????????don't recall saying say

 

what I am saying and as verminincinerator quite well put,

 

quote

For the guys who have already conquered the 300yd and 500yd kills they deserve a goal to aim for just like those who aspire to 300 and 500yd kills, hence i think the 750yd and 1000yd categories should be re-introduced, however IMO, quarry should only be small ground mammals and bird species which are classified on an FAC as pests or vermin.

 

Ian.

 

don't allow posts about foxes if thats how you feel but to remove the goals of 750 & 1000 just because of one post weather it was wrong or write is not the point but you have taken something away that most on here were looking forward to

 

whats the big f....king problem with putting it back on??????????????????????or is there , as it appears to most, to be some hidden agenda?

 

 

we are telling you we liked it and want it back, you are basically saying no because you cant shoot foxes at these ranges, we are saying thats fair we wont submit these ranges unless on small quarry, you are still saying no you cant have, so it gives the impression of a hidden reason

[shootingbags]

I think you are missing the point there

 

I am not saying that we should or should not shoot at foxes at longer range???????????????don't recall saying say

 

what I am saying and as verminincinerator quite well put,

 

quote

For the guys who have already conquered the 300yd and 500yd kills they deserve a goal to aim for just like those who aspire to 300 and 500yd kills, hence i think the 750yd and 1000yd categories should be re-introduced, however IMO, quarry should only be small ground mammals and bird species which are classified on an FAC as pests or vermin.

 

Ian.

 

don't allow posts about foxes if thats how you feel but to remove the goals of 750 & 1000 just because of one post weather it was wrong or write is not the point but you have taken something away that most on here were looking forward to

 

whats the big f....king problem with putting it back on??????????????????????or is there , as it appears to most, to be some hidden agenda?

we are telling you we liked it and want it back, you are basically saying no because you cant shoot foxes at these ranges, we are saying thats fair we wont submit these ranges unless on small quarry, you are still saying no you cant have, so it gives the impression of a hidden reason

 

 

Silent,

 

You have a PM

[varminter]

Hi guys ,

Seeming myself and Dave got the thread up and running ( with all the help from you guys responces ) i just want to say this...

The longrange varminting thread was for members new to the sport and experinced longrange varminters too!!!

I even spoke to Dave about doing a writeup for those new to it ( whether seasoned shooters who are new to it or newbies ) to help with advise of equipment needed!!!

It was to be something to be enjoyed by those who either particpate or who would like to.................

In hindsight i should of added it should be just small pests ( bunnies / pigeons / corvids ) when i first put the post up!! , but there is one there now!!!!!

I thankyou for those that are concerned and i apreciate your views , but this was the idea to those that do not do it , to show them and guide them in having the " right " knowledge and equipment to ensure clean kills...........

Now i must say that this site is called Uk varminting but the site also covers other facets like deer hunting / rifles / handloading / target shooting .

Now this section was opened up to those who would like to learn to or do participate on longrange small pest control , so if you are a deer stalker or target shooter who finds this displeasing then please don't look and it is as simple as that!!!!!

Please forgive my last sentence but as i said this was opened up for other shooters ( who are interested ) to learn / share their experiences and knowledge / and to share with like minded shooters their memories of the trip!!!!!!!!

Dave and myself with the help of input of the members of the site have put allot of effort into this for others to enjoy and hope you will , so please no bickering - because remember we have all one thing in common , we love our shooting sports!!!!

Hope i have explained things okay and thanks again for your views...............

All the very best..........................

RAY....................................................

[silentsoulsleave308holes]

Advanced Member

 

 

Group: Root Admin

Posts: 299

Member No.: 5

Joined: 14-February 07

 

 

 

CC: Wsm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Silent,

 

with regard to your post especially ...

 

whats the big f....king problem with putting it back on??????????????????????or is there , as it appears to most, to be some hidden agenda?

 

 

we are telling you we liked it and want it back, you are basically saying no because you cant shoot foxes at these ranges, we are saying thats fair we wont submit these ranges unless on small quarry, you are still saying no you cant have, so it gives the impression of a hidden reason'..

 

there is no big f...king problem as you put it - we have said the reasons why and that's it. I personally don't like being TOLD what to or what not to do on my forum and let's face it , there are only 2 or 3 people kicking up over this out of over 500 members .

 

There is no hidden agenda . I have no problem shooting at long ranges I have done it many a time here and in the US. You have a 500+ yard club which , unless I am mistaken , means over 500 yards or is it that people will be losing out being able to show a certificate to their friends that they have ' x at over 750 or 1000 yards etc '.

We are not stopping anyone posting that they have shot at over 750 or 1000 yards have we?

 

I would suggest dropping the attitude and get on with using the site as it is if you still wish to.

 

Shootingbags

 

 

 

 

 

well I was a bit shocked to receive this

 

shooting bags I am sorry that you have misunderstood my post and taken it that I have had a dig at you personally, I don't recall quoting you or saying your name

 

I am sorry that you feel that it is YOUR forum as I thought it was a forum for the members

 

I am sorry you felt I was dictating to YOU what YOU should do on YOUR forum as I wasn't

 

I know there are more than just two or three people that would like it back

 

once again, a bit shocked by your statements and apologize if I offended YOU am I am sorry if it seems that "I" have an attitude

[shootingbags]

Advanced Member

Group: Root Admin

Posts: 299

Member No.: 5

Joined: 14-February 07

CC: Wsm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Silent,

 

with regard to your post especially ...

 

whats the big f....king problem with putting it back on??????????????????????or is there , as it appears to most, to be some hidden agenda?

we are telling you we liked it and want it back, you are basically saying no because you cant shoot foxes at these ranges, we are saying thats fair we wont submit these ranges unless on small quarry, you are still saying no you cant have, so it gives the impression of a hidden reason'..

 

there is no big f...king problem as you put it - we have said the reasons why and that's it. I personally don't like being TOLD what to or what not to do on my forum and let's face it , there are only 2 or 3 people kicking up over this out of over 500 members .

 

There is no hidden agenda . I have no problem shooting at long ranges I have done it many a time here and in the US. You have a 500+ yard club which , unless I am mistaken , means over 500 yards or is it that people will be losing out being able to show a certificate to their friends that they have ' x at over 750 or 1000 yards etc '.

We are not stopping anyone posting that they have shot at over 750 or 1000 yards have we?

 

I would suggest dropping the attitude and get on with using the site as it is if you still wish to.

 

Shootingbags

 

well I was a bit shocked to receive this

 

shooting bags I am sorry that you have misunderstood my post and taken it that I have had a dig at you personally, I don't recall quoting you or saying your name

 

I am sorry that you feel that it is YOUR forum as I thought it was a forum for the members

 

I am sorry you felt I was dictating to YOU what YOU should do on YOUR forum as I wasn't

 

I know there are more than just two or three people that would like it back

 

once again, a bit shocked by your statements and apologize if I offended YOU am I am sorry if it seems that "I" have an attitude

 

 

Silent ,

 

PM's are exactly that - personal messages. I don't know how you can be shocked by the statements as it isn't just me who thinks you have got an attitude.

 

If you ever decide to run a forum you will see the problems that can be associated with it.

[col48]

Advanced Member

 

 

Group: Root Admin

Posts: 299

Member No.: 5

Joined: 14-February 07

 

 

 

CC: Wsm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Silent,

 

with regard to your post especially ...

 

whats the big f....king problem with putting it back on??????????????????????or is there , as it appears to most, to be some hidden agenda?

 

 

we are telling you we liked it and want it back, you are basically saying no because you cant shoot foxes at these ranges, we are saying thats fair we wont submit these ranges unless on small quarry, you are still saying no you cant have, so it gives the impression of a hidden reason'..

 

there is no big f...king problem as you put it - we have said the reasons why and that's it. I personally don't like being TOLD what to or what not to do on my forum and let's face it , there are only 2 or 3 people kicking up over this out of over 500 members .

 

There is no hidden agenda . I have no problem shooting at long ranges I have done it many a time here and in the US. You have a 500+ yard club which , unless I am mistaken , means over 500 yards or is it that people will be losing out being able to show a certificate to their friends that they have ' x at over 750 or 1000 yards etc '.

We are not stopping anyone posting that they have shot at over 750 or 1000 yards have we?

 

I would suggest dropping the attitude and get on with using the site as it is if you still wish to.

 

Shootingbags

 

 

 

 

 

well I was a bit shocked to receive this

 

shooting bags I am sorry that you have misunderstood my post and taken it that I have had a dig at you personally, I don't recall quoting you or saying your name

 

I am sorry that you feel that it is YOUR forum as I thought it was a forum for the members

 

I am sorry you felt I was dictating to YOU what YOU should do on YOUR forum as I wasn't

 

I know there are more than just two or three people that would like it back

 

once again, a bit shocked by your statements and apologize if I offended YOU am I am sorry if it seems that "I" have an attitude

 

 

i think a PM should be kept as it was intended, private.

 

this should be removed as it was not meant for open forum

 

Colin

[silentsoulsleave308holes]

then it should not have been sent in the first place as yes it was personal but I gave a open apology

[col48]

then it should not have been sent in the first place as yes it was personal but I gave a open apology

 

 

silent

a pm is a privet message, if it was meant to be seen buy everyone then you would simply just post on the forum.

Gary would not have sent the message.

do you read other peoples mail??

 

ATB

Colin

[charly hunter]

So if it is not suitable to shoot a fox at 800 then where is the limit??? what one man can do another can't. Why is it so safe to shoot a crow at this range? Is there not the slightest chance that a crow maybe missed but get wounded by shrapnel from the bullet striking a stone, the bird then has a broken leg / wing or is blind in one eye???? And that person is going to take how long to get to the target area by which time the bird has gone into a hedge and is not then found to be dispatched, so how long will it suffer before charley findes it?????

 

Where does it stop, we either shoot long range or we don't.

 

I don't want to shoot long range foxes, but that doesn't mean that everyone has my view and if they are capable then it rests on there head. We see dvds of folks shooting deer at 8-900yds with one shot kills but does that mean it is right to do so? It should be up to the individual to know his/her capabillaties.

Hell I got some dvd's from shooting bags not so long ago that show guys shooting fair ranges at rock chucks and a lot are on the sky line, does it mean we should do it????? Or should I complain that this type of thing could be seen as showing folks that it's fine to shoot at the sky line and that I don't think you should be selling it. We all make our own desicions and we have to live with it, if there are people that don't agree with long range then don't open the thread.

[shootingbags]

Nigel,

 

You see DVD's of one shot kills but you don't see how many others are not killed with the 1st shot - they don't put these on the dvd's

[nemasis243]

Gentelman , I must firstly say that my actions have caused so much hastle for the site officials and site members .

Everyone has different views in life and it is unfatunate that me posting something on here which I thought was , to me a very special moment in my shooting carear, has raised issues with people who do not have the same ideals .

 

I treat foxes as vermin and on all of the places where I am asked to shoot ,they are a threat to livestock of some form, if an oppotunity arises that there is a chance to dispatch Vermin I must do my utmost to see it is taken care of as if I dont they will get some one who will.

Whether it is 80yrds or 800yrds I Will Still attemp the shot , but then that is MY CHOICE.

 

I can see Baldies point of view and would have thought it much more dignified of him , if he had contacted me ( as he is a global adjudicator for the site) direct, rather than going to the top to get them involved,but its to late for that.

 

If he had spoken to me and explained to me in person that he wasnt happy with what I had put and his reasons , I would have asked to have the post withdrawn from the site,no one on here wants to upset and cause grief to any one, do they.

 

I feel that my actions have caused everyone else to suffer with the loss of the 750-1000 yard club, I would ask the powers that be ,would it be possible to reinstate these distances and to limit quarry species to members of the crow family, pigeon and rabbit.

 

I am aware that its now the 500+ club but I think it would feel a little more special for anyone shooting a rabbit at a 1000+yrds to have it in its own little place. Posting it in the 500+ section just wouldnt have the same ring to it ,would it.

 

There are a lot of members on this site who were very excited in the prospect of trying to gain entry into these extreme distance clubs, my self included.

 

I feel that many people are starting to get involved at a personal level with different issues that have come to light from what has happened and I feel that this is not doing the site any good at all, we are on here to enjoy ourselves and help each other along the way ,in the form of passing knoledge on to others ,

 

I STRONGLY FEEL it is now time to put all this behind us and move on and not dwell on what has passed and to get back to what the site is about

ENJOYMENT.

 

Thanks For Your Time NEMASIS243

[Ronin]

This indeed is the problem with long range shooting - its a bloody emotive subject even amongst those who do it

 

 

Please lets just get on with it and enjoy.