lead free bullets

[banus02]

good afternoon,i was given 20 non lead bullets to reload in my .243 ,I loaded mid powder h4895 load and zeroed this afternoon at 100 yards in a stubble field very accurate but also very dangerous.took 5 shots and had 3 bounce off the wet stubble ,I was shooting in to a fourty acre field with a 180 feet bank behind the target I would not consider shooing an animal with these bullets

[MJR]

Why exactly? You've experienced ricochet which any bullet is capable of, hence the need for safe back stop.....

[MrCetrizine]

I would have thought the lead free ones are less likely to bounce given that are typically highly frangible compressed copper in a very thin jacket.

[simonl]

what bullets were they?

[gbal]

Do you know the make and specification these non lead 243 bullets?

 

There is quite a range of 'lead free'-from the traditional heavy monolith coppersolids,to the much newer and very light,highly frangible varmint bullets.

But there are mid range/weight/calibre lead free bullets designed for deer size game,with controlled expansion.

 

All should be 'fit for purpose',but most are not widely used in UK.

 

gbal

[banus02]

good evening ,the bullets were 95gr solid copper and quite long on par with 105 a max I do not know the make but have ask and they came from Germany poss rws

[Chris-NZ]

+1 to MJR's comment.

All bullets can ricochet. Yours are not unique, nor necessarily unfit for purpose for that reason alone.

[srvet]

+1 to MJR's comment.

All bullets can ricochet. Yours are not unique, nor necessarily unfit for purpose for that reason alone.

I use solid copper quite a lot and see way more ricochets with lapua scenars than Barnes Ttsx

[gbal]

Banus,individual experience is useful,but note the comments from other posts. A single possible ricochet incident in Germany caused

 

some concern,but was not supported by the research into German Hunters,ony 1.3 % of whom mentioned any concern about safety issues. (Schuck-Werzig,2009).

 

There are lead free (big) game bullets from Hornady,Remington,Winchester,Federal and Nosler -almost all are copper,or copper/zinc alloy. Bullet construction varies.(see briefly,Hunting with Non Lead bullets).

 

In UK, a small scale study was conducted on effectivenness on Red,Sika and Roe using Barnes bullets.Accuracy and lethality were not deficient compared to lead (Knott et al,Zoology,Cambridge Uni).

 

OK -more research needed in UK but at the very worst,it looks like the current options are a viable (cost included) proportionate response to any legislation-which is not being proposed anyhow.

 

It's worth getting some perspective on such issues before they flare up out of hand ,often without good reason-not that I am suggesting any comments do this on this thread.

I understand that there is some use of copper bullets already among UK stalkers,as some posts have mentioned positively.

 

"Comparison of lethality of lead and copper bullets in deer" Knott et al

Schuck-Wersig (in a report for) German Research Centre for Environmental Policy 2009

 

or google 'Hunting with non lead bullets' /similar-there is more-we're onto it !

 

gbal

[banus02]

good afternoon ,thank you for your replies, I personally will not use/try anymore non led bullets until forced to do so but each to his/her own good hunting which ever way you choose

[FGYT]

Forestry commission insists use of Non Lead Bullets on the Stalking rights it leases out to Stalkers along with a List of other requirements DSC2, First aid + Forestry , etc

and for Forestry commission employees

 

Some EU countries will struggle as they have minimum Bullet weights which some of the smaller Cals cannot meet without lead currently even the 6.5 x 55 a Widely used cart on the continent may struggle to meet the Swedish min stds for large deer etc ie over 154gns min 1450Ft lbs @100m or 139-153grains Min 1992 ft lbs @100m with Non lead Bullets

 

bearing in mind England and wales only Limit is min 1700ft lbs @ the muzzle min .243" cal

[SWShooter]

Google brings up a few ricochet issues with solid copper, worth a look.

[gbal]

SWS,any bullet can ricochet-my google shows more instances with conventional bullets....

and quite a few studies of much improved performance (ie few ricochets) with franngible and other ammo,including short range at steel targets.

 

Some evidence too of much improved ballistic efficiency and performance (9-20% !) from the Warner Tool Flat LIne bullets-that has real potential for longrer range rifle shooters in precision shooting etc.

 

CoppeMatrrix solids fragment n steel,and copper/nylon seem much safer even very close upcompared to conventional:

"Frangible Ammo" Townsley 2011 2011 NRA Shooting Illustrated 223 "Green Elite" ammo

 

The technology seems to exist already-and the big manufacturers are well into lead free- not only is 'ricochet' not increasing ,there is actually quite good evidence for ballistic improvement.

 

Of course,though all this is readily checked,as documented-a ccouple given above,I may be selectively mssing some of the negatives-at a bare minimum,we should use conventional ammo as a baseline-ricochets are not zero there.

 

In short range steel shooting,ricochets seem less likely with modern bullet options that are also lead free.

I haven't seen much/anything to support an increase in field use ricochets,but perhaps you can reference such evidence.

What is the ricochet status of FMJ bullets,there must be considerable evidence from range use?

 

As ever,I think that such issues are best data led (note the spelling!),rather than conjecture led,but there is nothing to be gained by ignoring real data whatever it is.

 

IF there is an issue,then knowing just what it is hastens a solution-from what I see,research is already quite well advanced in providing 'solutions' if needed.

To date the commercial 'lead free' US ammo is not prohibitively overpriced,at least for hunters.How much buck for your buck would be reasonable? Some of the photos of controlled expansion without fragmenting look impressive....but may be selective (as with conventional-fragmentation health issues first raised all this 'concern').

 

Maybe I'm missing something,and you can bring me more up to speed.We seem 'set for wet ' weather,

so time on hand to research more,but not field test!

 

g

[bewsh]

I once put out two targets to do some zeroing of my .243

one at 50 yds and one at 100yds

shooting from a wall approximately 7ft above the ground level the targets were on, ground slightly rising to the far target

 

shot the targets at 100 yds with a 75gr VMax load

shot the 50 yd targets afterwards with a 100gr Hornady Interlock load

 

the 100 yd target was covered in key holes and some normal holes

 

on examining the ground behind the 50yd target the interlocks (a standard cup and core bullet) were cutting a 2 ft groove in the soft,.damp, grass covered ground and bouncing up into the 100yd target (all within the bounds of a safe backstop etc etc)

 

you need to go back out and shoot some cup and core expanding ammo in the same situation

 

your issue is not one distinct to lead free