any clue where i went wrong

[nearly there]

Hi guys I'm wondering if yous have any advice.I've recently started reloading with a friend who showed me the ropes.I did my first batch myself recently but ran into problems.the first round went fine but the 2nd round failed to fire.we waited a safe time then went to extract the round but the bolt didn't want to open.it took a bit of effort but we got it open but in doing so separated the case from the head inside the action.resulting in powder in the action and the head stuck in the barrel.is my round to long,as has been suggested.the round was fully resized and it was amax heads.all rounds were the same size as the previous batch but was lapua Serenas.any tips or advice would be appreciated.Thanks

[Big Al]

The round is too long, I guess you have measure overall length rather than base to ogive. Bullets have different shapes, you can't just rely on using the same overall length as this can vary how close the bullet is to the rifling. The way to measure is with a comparator onto the ogive.

[nearly there]

Hi al.yes you correct I did measure over all length.I assume that's a common mistake for first timers.thanks for confirming what was wrong

[andybrock]

Hi guys I'm wondering if yous have any advice.I've recently started reloading with a friend who showed me the ropes.I did my first batch myself recently but ran into problems.the first round went fine but the 2nd round failed to fire.we waited a safe time then went to extract the round but the bolt didn't want to open.it took a bit of effort but we got it open but in doing so separated the case from the head inside the action.resulting in powder in the action and the head stuck in the barrel.is my round to long,as has been suggested.the round was fully resized and it was amax heads.all rounds were the same size as the previous batch but was lapua Serenas.any tips or advice would be appreciated.Thanks

Did you find out why it didn't fire in the first place?

[gbal]

NT,yes it's an easy assumption to get caught out by-OAL is largely useless except-importantly-as a guide to whether a cartridge will fit in your magazine (if rifle has one).Then all that matters is the length,base to bullet tip.

But for most other issues like seating depth-usually 'jump' or how far off engaging with the rifling the bullet is when chambered,OAL is not much use-uless you are loading exactly the same bullets that you have been happy with as seated. Bullets actually vary by a good few thou' in length-often from the same box (they may well not have been made on the same bullet forming dies-which also wear out/get longer before being replaced).

Thankfully what is much more constant is the ogive -how pointed the bullet becomes-think of it going into throat/barrel-the point for some distance does not touch the sides...specifically "ogive' means the relatively constant distance from base to where the 'ogive' will contact the rifling. AS Al says,the appropriate tool is a comparator,and stoney point type measure-if you want to vary seating to it's optimum-for each rifle/bullet combination.Fine tuning,less critical than getting an accuracy node in your powder loading.BUt most of us do seat optimally.Repeat-it's not the same for different bullets (even same weight-sierras differ from Scenars etc etc).It's quite easy to measure and set,though you need a good micrometer too-you need a good micrometer for most perations beyond the very basic. Don't rush it though-get some basic ammo loaded and fired...

It is a real potential pest when powder spills and bullet is lodged in bore (bullet is usually poked out with a cleaning rod easy enough,but powder in the trigger has ended a few serious sshooters competitions....at a high level there is some advantage in ligt bullet retention in the case,but the risk is a jammed bullet if bolt has to be opened (range safety eg) and the bullet has been (deliberately) set into the lands-which some bullets prefer (VLDs eg-but best avoid those divas for now).

Factory ammo is allloaded to COAL max-a SAAMI industry standard-as it has to load into any magazine...and,you guessed-magazines vary-again,that becomes an issue with some high BC bullets-high BC is desireable ballistically-but may mean-with some seating depth limits-that such bullets don't fit the mag-and that might mean the rifle/bullet combocant be used.Again,not an issue atthe moment-but you will maybe come accross 'long throated chambers' etc,to give long bullets enough room before the rifling....it does not have to get so complicated.

Many reloaders shoot 1/2 inch groups etc and never vary bullet seating-it really is quite fine tuning, and yyou don't need it util you are shooting very well,but want a tad better....ffor that matter factory ammo is good enough for many-and for some competitive use (CSR,I believe?) where there is more a premium on shooting skill than absolute reloading finesse ( I'm told... :-)

Enjoy-we all learn as we go...and it changes sometimes (Berger's 'hybrid' bullets eg are supposedly quite tolerant of 'jump' so seating precision is less critical....hooray,if really so;VLDs as said tend to be very fussy). Advanced stuff though.There is a lot to be said for sticking with one decent bullet (scenars or Sierra MKs etc) until the basics are well established.

KISS-keep it simple and safe....and ask-we've all been there! Enjoy.

gbal

[1066]

Yes, as Andy says, two separate problems here. Really need to find out exactly what's happening before pushing on.

It could be just a duff primer but this is so rare now it's a chance of one in thousands.

Was it new brass? If not, had it been fired in your rifle before?

You've torn the head off, so it must be the BULLET stuck in the barrel, have you got it out OK?

[nearly there]

Hi guys thanks for the information.I'd like to cover some questions.the calibre is 6.5x47,when extracted the primer had been struck,the the cases are on there 2nd/3rd reload.I used a max 123grn heads and also it was magnum primers.just a bit frustrated but I'll make up a dummy round and try that as a template.one question is it possible to press the heads to far down and if so what is the possible outcome if fired.Thanks

[Panda]

Hi Nearly There.

 

I hope you managed to get all the powder out of your chamber....there certainly was plenty of it in there. Yes, I'm the one that gave you a hand on the firing point.

 

I can only agree with what has been said above with regards to cartridge length. Unless loading to SAAMI length then all bullets are different and when changing from one make, or even different types of bullet from the same manufacturer then you have to re-test your length for case base to ogive.

 

As far as the primer goes......it looked like a solid strike so I would say you had a duff primer. Some would say luckily given how far the bullet was jammed into the lands. The pressure increase caused by this could have made for an "interesting" day.

 

Hope you get it all sorted out for the next BR day.

 

ATB

[nearly there]

Hi panda thanks for your help on the day as I just couldn't work out we're I went wrong.the next time I'm down I'll be all sorted

[Brillo]

This happened to me once, and only once.

There was a misfire and I had one hell of a job removing the bolt.

When the cartridge was examined there were rifling marks on the bullet. When I removed that bullet with a kinetic hammer there was no powder in the case. Clearly I had seated a bullet in an empty case.

 

In other instances like this I've heard of (and been present at the time) the primer had enough energy to push the bullet a certain distance into the barrel and the shooter then has had to remove it by dubious methods.

With me the bullet had jumped marginally into the rifling but was still held in the case. This is why I had difficulty removing the cartridge - the bullet was stuck in the rifling AND the case.

 

Needless to say, I now check every case is full before seating the bullets.

[chaz]

Apologies for a brief "Hijacking" of your post nearly there. I also thank the members to for their detailed replies. It wasn't that long ago, that I had a frustrating time with cartridge over all length being inconsistent. I think that's the right wording? Anyhow, I mean from end to end. I checked, double checked, and was pulling my hair out! Until someone explained the meaning of measuring via the "Ogive".

Thank god they did!!

Good luck.

Chaz.

[wozar]

Primer not going off proply could have been something blocking the primer hole, i had one and it was a bit of media after the bullets had been through the tumbler

[nearly there]

Hi wozar.I did give all the primer pockets a clean but as you said it could have been something blocking it.I really will need to look at a reloading course as I'm starting to feel I might not know enough yet to be reloading

[wozar]

Thought i had but didn't check the hole right through I just looked to see it was clear for the primer to sit in, now i make sure you can see right through

[andybrock]

Hi wozar.I did give all the primer pockets a clean but as you said it could have been something blocking it.I really will need to look at a reloading course as I'm starting to feel I might not know enough yet to be reloading

You'll be fine, just take your time, check and double check every part of the process. If your not sure about something stop at that point and ask someone or ask on here!

[gbal]

Apologies for a brief "Hijacking" of your post nearly there. I also thank the members to for their detailed replies. It wasn't that long ago, that I had a frustrating time with cartridge over all length being inconsistent. I think that's the right wording? Anyhow, I mean from end to end. I checked, double checked, and was pulling my hair out! Until someone explained the meaning of measuring via the "Ogive".

Thank god they did!!

Good luck.

Chaz.

Chaz,we've all been there. One line 'replies' don't always give any insight....and we all still learn.....COAL is just a piece of mischief waiting to confound other reloaders,with the exception of magazine length.

 

But the next upgrade is to realise that comparators and other measuring tools are not all the same manufacturing spec/precision-AND neiither is the human hand sensitivity.

Someone else's measures-IF ogive/good tools etc are a very good comparison point-but two reloaders measuring the same lloaded round-or ay process in that reloading-may not agree 100%.....

The tolls can differ-good micrometers should be really close,but if you consider a comparator,it's just a bit of aluminum with a hile bored in it-unlikely to be precision engineered,especially at the modest price-so someone else with the same brand may well have slightly different size ( manufacturing tolerances are not .00001) . Ogives are pretty good,but not 100% between bullets.

 

AND human sensitivity varies quite a lot-including in the fingers,which push the comparator cartridge and sample bullet into the chamber etc,and generally adjust the micrometer. Plenty scope for a few thou genuine,honest individual differences there,in 'sensitivity of touch'- (a whole profession of applied psychology studies this aspect of individual differnces,and 'man machine interface'-it should be "men-machine"(and include ladies,who differ too).

 

OK another's data is exactly as described-comparative,but not definitive for your set up.You are essentially comparing your measures against others you have done-that reduces almost all the above variability,if done with a consistent touch.

 

Some tools of course are calibrated and kept in calibration-I suspect this does not apply to all chronometers....but at least a digital readout of MV reduces human individuality.....but not in the pressure applied on the micrometers,and other 'hand tools.'

My engineering neighbour sometimes reminds me that someone has to calibrate the calibration process too.....

 

As advised ,if something feels/looks/measures wrong....take a break,have a coffee-think through general possibilities...and ask eg on here,where there is usually an informed set of views,covering options at all levels,and experience driven. Read as many descriptions of it all as you can-the basic will be just that,the more advanced will give insights beyond....I reloaded for decades before taking seriously the possible difference in 'from the box' bullet length-having seen a vid of five bullet dies pouring tens of thousands of bullets an hour into a hopper,to be boxed,and being informed the dies wear out in a shift,I began to believe in bullet length variation....fine tuning,but just as easy to minimise with simple measures.

The wind-and rifles- just laugh at duff ammo,but smile at precision ammo!

 

gbal

[Borisserge]

When you drop by for the case, I will give you a comparator to take away with you at the same time.

[nearly there]

That's ideal.I'll text to arrange a suitable time

[Murph]

I once used cci 400 primers with blc2 powder. The primer went off fine but would not ignite the powder. When I changed to cci br4 the problem stopped. I think the br4s are a hotter primer which would explain why the 400 s would not work with the blc2.