.275 Rigby

[Novice]

Apologies if I am in the wrong forum but can anyone tell me with certainty whether a rifle chambered in .275 Ribgy can safely handle 7x57 ammunition. I have searched the internet and cannot find a conclusive answer.

 

I have spoken to a couple of reloading equipment suppliers and they say that they have not heard of, and do not have listed in the manufacturer's literature, dies for .275 Rigby.

 

Thanks,

 

Novice

[1967spud]

Give me 20 mins

[1967spud]

Spuddy to the rescue you have a pm sir

[gbal]

Maybe- the 275 Rigby is indeed the 7x57 Mauser,as adopted by bespoke London rifle makers.Such rilfes would probably not be of recent manufacture,though of good quality,typically Mauser actions as available.

 

At the time the '275' Rigby was sold,the 7x57 -and 275 would probably have been loaded a bit lighter than a 'modern' 7x57 would be/could be loaded. So some caution is indicated- even more than is prudent in load development-though there is really no sensible reason to try to load the 275 'maximally'-performance difference will be minor,and the original loadings are more than adequate for any suitable quarry. IF not,get a more potent cartridge,in say 270 class.

 

Rigby et al would not be envisaging home loading-it was rare-and the whole idea was to promote and sell Rigby "proprietary' cartridges. So there won't be "275Rigby" named dies-just check that 7x57 dies work ok (FL sized brass-7x57 presumably-chambers ok-they should but the rifles were never marketed as such.(7x57)...That said,the cartridge is not generally like say the 45/70 which comes in three very clear loading categories out of respect for older,weaker actions and modern actions.(eg Ruger No1).

It's a very pleasant cartidge,by either name;don't be tempted to reduce the pleasure in the name of marginal increased performance....to what purose (it will never be a 1000y number,and 200fps less still gives an excellent red deer cartridge,nicer to range shoot etc.) Enjoy a classic,by either name.

 

gbal

[1967spud]

thats is correct George i ahve been on the phobne to Rigby and that is more or less the conversation we had

[gbal]

Mark,good- when an Englishman,Scotsman and Irishman all agree,its probably beyond a joke.

That said, "Rigby" are no longer in business from Dublin,but I'm sure Newton and Pugh trading under the Rigby name in London will know about the rifles.

Actually,I think Rigby made 275 Rigby Mausers (or from Mausers!) up until 1960 ish-so the rifle may well be from the later productions -N&P/'Rigby' would have serial numbers,but of course nothing on current condition,probably more important than it's provenance.

Subject to sensible checks,seems ok then.

 

g

[Finman]

Ronin here built a couple, so he may know the differences to a 7x57, although I have a feel that it is only at the throat. I love the 7x57, from mouse to moose nothing's safe and, if you want anything more than a moose, it will do that too ask Mr. WDM Bell...

[1967spud]

george

 

apparantly rigby re bagded the mauser up untill 1964

[gbal]

[Ronin]

Yes, I've built several and 7x57 brass will chamber and fire safely (in my builds)

 

I had a conversation with the proof house regarding the 7x57 and 275 Rigby chambers, though there are SLIGHT differences, they are essentially the same.

 

My 275 chambers and fires factory 7x57 and is damn accurate too...oh and a perfect killing tool for deer

[Tikka 260]

Yes, I've built several and 7x57 brass will chamber and fire safely (in my builds)

 

I had a conversation with the proof house regarding the 7x57 and 275 Rigby chambers, though there are SLIGHT differences, they are essentially the same.

 

My 275 chambers and fires factory 7x57 and is damn accurate too...oh and a perfect killing tool for deer

+1 What Ronin says - I have a 275 and a 7x57, they both shoot the same Norma 7x57 cases to the same POI, loaded with 140 NBT/NAB ; 140 Gn Sierra HPBT, or 160 Gn NAB. All with H414. Very easy calibre to load for, low perceived recoil, and Deer really don't like it.

[DL.]

I fully understand Ronin supplying people with what they request for a chambering, but really, what is the point in .275 Rigby? Is this not another fine example of who can have an obscure rifle chambering on the firing point!?

 

It would be 7x57 for me all the way for me, if it isn't broken...

[Ronin]

I didn't start the current 275 Trend,,,

 

 

Look towards John Rigby and a chap called Bell who killed a few animals with his...

 

The 275 was (is) a popular calibre with the Royals too

[gbal]

I accept for a few,"275" will smack of elitism-and that may be so for some users,especially these days,but.....

An Andy alludes,the 7x57 Mauser has a very fine record-Despite that somewhat impecunious Mr Bell,who reduced his costs by at least half using it,(canny Scott etc,who made a fortune from his African shooting-though reckons he walked 73 miles for every elephant,and wore out about 24 pairs of boots if any wannabe's fancy trying it-and was an exceptional shot placer,especially for his time- he averaged 1.5 shots per tusker,so mainly one or two shot kills.The cartridge is no longer legal for really big game,rightly so.It is/has been a very fine Red stag cartridge-milder than the 270, at sensible ranges,as good,better for some as more shootable.(Bell used a 22 Swift on his estate-not recommended,and not now legal, ditto the 5.6 Vom Hofe Super Express-wonder why he didn't go for that (maybe the heavy 77g .277 bullet was OTT ...or expensive :-)

Anyhow,the 'elite' only comes in if at all,because the English bespoke gun makers,including Rogby,realised it was a fine cartridge,but wanted their own share-hence the 'proprietary' cartridges (I posted a box earlier' and reworking 7x57 Mausers -there is no effective differnce inperformance-unlesss of course the cartridges are loaded deliberately that way. So If you want an upmarket 'British" rifle-you get the 275 as refinished by the big makers.( I detect only commercial gain,no anti metric/german bias). Bell et al did,they were very well made rifles,designed for African/Indian work as tweaked by said "London makers". Many still are.

Much the same happened with the outstanding rifle from Mannlicher Schoenauer,and it's rebadge '256' is still used,but less (despite Hemingways useage)-and 6.5x54 M/S is just as frequent-at one time it was one of the top estate owners choices in UK-mild enough for almost any guest,but very effective. Still is,nothing new in a good 6.5 rifle.Yes Bell used one too,but even for him,it's a bit marginal for jumbos.

Anyhow,you get the drift-there were far better reasons than 'elitism' surrounding the '275'- or at least different reasons (commercial gain).Nowadays,I'm inclined to put 'nostalgia' or even 'admiration' on the motive list ( I prefer my M/S as metrics,as designed), but there may be a touch of 'wannabe'-but surely not an iota of misguided class envy/anti elitism among such otherwise savvy shooters (check they understand 'the Bell shot',in theory at least).

It's a damn fine rose,by any name,if one comes your way as a 'London' rifle,it won't shoot any different from a BSA (made in Birmingham-actually like a lot of London 'best' guns in unfinished form.),but it will be a fine rifle for all that;you can probably buy something mundane for more money,if you wish-they are not all pricey,though Robert Ruark paid a lot for Bell's actual rifle-and gave it away-within the 'white hunter' safari family,perhaps where it should be.

Tolerance and each (shooter and rifle) on merit,perhaps? ...if 'gut genuch"

g von bal

[DL.]

I didn't start the current 275 Trend,,,

 

 

Look towards John Rigby and a chap called Bell who killed a few animals with his...

 

The 275 was (is) a popular calibre with the Royals too

 

Not a criticism of you whatsoever, what you do is take an order from the customer, and produce the end product that they request.

 

The validity of the .275 however - culling elephants, or being the rifle of choice for people of hereditary wealth doesn't qualify the .275 to do anything really.

 

What are the benefits of having a rifle chambered in this calibre in the 21st century? Or were we simply re-packaging the round in this country to sway the customers away from a nasty European metric designation in the last century?

 

I suspect in this day and age having this round is simply one up man ship. Although if there are genuine positive factors I'm happy to be proven wrong.

[gbal]

Dl,I am a scot ( Scott,even) of impeccable provence-Bell was a radical one off in using the small calibre ,relatively high velocity rounds-most African ivory men etc used the big bore English or German cartridges.Most are superseeded and the Bell numbers are rightly way below legal minima-they remain absolutely excellent UK stag cartridges,the "7" mm especially.

I have no problem at all with someone,preferably reasonably informed,chosing the 'legacy' Rigby '275',if it's out of informed respect...if it's attempted one upmanship,anyone so impressed clearly has no knowledge of reality,so likewise it don't bother me. Seen by the stag,they are identical-but typically fatal! There is no difference,and indeed in most rifles,they are interchangeable....I have already suggested/claimed the reason for the British semi bespoke sellers to go "275" was simply to aid selling their bespoke cartridges-that was often where the £ was-although Bell had quite a few rifles,he also went through a lot of ammo-despite his remarlkable efficiency (.75 shots per tusk!) but he provided meat for up to 75 camp 'asssistants' and "practiced ' a fair bit....ammo was a big item in the costs-despite avoiding,mostly ,the big heavies (he explicitly refered to the costs/expenses-substantial!)

 

I think we can absolutely exclude shooting elephant as any current reason for the 275-or 7x57- neither are now legal,and there are many superior cartridges,as I think you know. It is possible that in Bells day,the proprietary '275'loads were actually a bit different to european 7x57 loads-see -maybe- the Rigby advert- but this is unlikey-the German market was pretty good in 'German West Africa'!

 

Avoiding metric? Well,given how popular /accepted metrics have always been ,and continue to be,I think that possibility is simply untenable- maybe new customers are xenophobic,but I doubt it-as I said, unless they confess,I'd be minded to see such Uk choices as a recognition of an era (well,Bell's work),rather than any deliberate nose thumb towards teutonic expertise.

Does it matter? It is a distinction without any ballistic difference. You are probably wrong about hereditary wealth too-though Bell was not born with a plastic spoon in his mouth-all the men-and I can't recall a lady- who were able to mount safaris were reasonably well heeled-Bell was a serious commercial enterpreneur-ballpark costs were maybe £10k per expedition,at a time when a working man's family could survive on £150 a year,even in Glasgow(£152 in the reeky capital :-) )

 

I agree there is no ballistic/objective advantage of the '275' Rigby over the 7x57,and indeed there are cartridges better than both,in the same class (any savvy hoi polloi for for 7-08?) but anyone desperate for one upmanship is unlikely to get it from anyone informed,and the uninformed make any kudos rather sad,don't you think?Why do you resist the more generous option of a recognition of a fine provenance,and perhaps a Scot of some distinction (though it isn't enlightened, one if you factor in conservation etc etc.)

" When the legend is superseeded by the facts,print the legend" said Hollywood,(not Hollyrood),but believe the facts. ;-)

g

PS a rarher famour SW scots poet one made the point that"The rank is but the guinea stamp,the mans the gowd (gold) for a' that'.Even the most radical class opponents have recognised the truth in that,and it goes way beyond the other desription" A rose by any other name would smell as sweet'.

I do agree there are a few pretentious citizens -even sad pr*ts,around,rather miscellaneously,in society. :-)

[gbal]

SORRY,Doubly post-ignore! of impeccable scottish provence-Bell was a radical one off in using the small calibre ,relatively high velocity rounds-most African ivotry men ec used the big bore English or German cartridges.Most are superseeded and the Bell numbers are rightly way below legal minima-they remain absolutely excellent UK stag cartridges,the "7" mm especially.

I have no problem at all with someone,preferably reasonably informed,chosing the 'legacy' Rigby '275',if its out of respect...if it's attempeted one upmanship,anyone so impressed clearly has no knowledge of reality,so likewise it dont bther me. SEen by the stag,they are identical-but typically fatal! There is no difference,and indeed in most rifles,they are interchangeable....I have already suggested/claimed the reason for the British semi bespoke sellers to go "275" was simply to aid selling their bespoke cartridges-that was often where the £ was-although Bell had quite a few rifles,he also went through a lot of ammo-despite his remarlkable efficiency (.75 shots per tusk!) but he proided meat for up to 75 camp 'asssistants' and "practiced ' a fair bit....ammo was a big item in the costs-despite avaoiding,mostly ,the big heavies.

 

I think we can absolutely exclude shooting elephant as any current reason for the 275-or 7x57- neither are now legal,and there are many superior cartridges,as I think you know. It is possible that in Bells day,the proprietary '275'loads were actually a bit different to european 7x57 loads-see -maybe- the Rigby advert- but this is unlikey-the German market was pretty good in 'German West Africa'!

 

Avoiding metric? Well,given how popular /accepted metrics have always been ,and continue to be,I think that possibility is simply untenable- maybe new customers are xenophobic,but I doubt it-as I said, unless they confess,I'd be minded to see such Uk choices as a recognition of an era (well,Bell's work),rather than any deliberate nose thumb towards teutonic expertise.

Does it matter? It is a distinction without any ballistic difference. You are probably wrong about hereditary wealth too-though Bell was not born with a plastic spoon in his mouth-all the men-and I can't recall a lady- who were able to mount safaris were reasonably well heeled-Bell was a serious commercial enterpreneur-ballpark costs were maybe £10k per expedition,at a time when a working man's family could survive on £150 a year,even in Glasgow(£152 in the reeky capital :-) )

 

I agree there is no ballistic/objective advantage of the '275' Rigby over the 7x57,and indeed there are cartridges better than both,in the same class (any savvy hoi polloi for for 7-08?) but anyone desperate for one upmanship is unlikely to get it from anyone informed,and the uninformed make any kudos rather sad,don't you think?Why do you resist the more generous option of a recognition of a fine provenance,and perhaps a Scot of some distinction (though it isn't enlightened, one if you factor in conservation etc etc.)

" When the legend is superseeded by the facts,print the legend" said Hollywood,(not Hollyrood),but believe the facts. ;-)

 

PS A very wise SW Scot said the "The rank is but the guinea stamp,the Man's the gowd (gold) for a' that" and even the radical class opponents have seen the merit in that;it does go a bit beyond the other famous view-" a rose by any other name,would smell as sweet".

 

Nonetheless,I rather agree there are some pretentious twats around,miscellaneously. :-)

[Ronin]

Not sure if there are any benefits vis a vis 275 / 7 x 57

 

Ive shot several 275 and I own one, which I built, I've just returned from a local shoot where I used it alongside another rifle I use more regularly for stalking.

 

The 275 is a lovely light recoiling and accurate round (I was using 140 sp with a mild 46 g of 4350),

 

I really don't think there is any kudos in saying "I own a 275 over a 7mm Mauser)

 

Lets face it, some cartridges work and have worked for hundreds of years, be that for sporting or conflict - the 7 x 57 is one of those timeless "old faithfuls"which you know will work in any guise.

[srvet]

Not sure if there are any benefits vis a vis 275 / 7 x 57

 

Ive shot several 275 and I own one, which I built, I've just returned from a local shoot where I used it alongside another rifle I use more regularly for stalking.

 

The 275 is a lovely light recoiling and accurate round (I was using 140 sp with a mild 46 g of 4350),

 

I really don't think there is any kudos in saying "I own a 275 over a 7mm Mauser)

 

Lets face it, some cartridges work and have worked for hundreds of years, be that for sporting or conflict - the 7 x 57 is one of those timeless "old faithfuls"which you know will work in any guise.

 

I have to say that your 275 is THE MOST LOVELY rifle I have ever fired!!!

[gbal]

....and would be identically so if it had a 7x57 chamber.Visually beyond discussion;and to shoot,almost so-though the mind can play tricks,it would have to be in overdrive here.

They are the same.

gbal

[srvet]

....and would be identically so if it had a 7x57 chamber.Visually beyond discussion;and to shoot,almost so-though the mind can play tricks,it would have to be in overdrive here.

They are the same.

gbal

Agreed ...You say tomato, I say tomayto .......so to speak!

[gbal]

....or "Tomate" in German !

georg