Thinking on the 204 but which factory rifle?

[247sniper]

If I were to rebarrel in a 1:8 twist 26" custom barrel would that get me out to 450 yards on fox,rabbit and crows?? What bullet is best for vermin at that distence 400 to 500 yards or is that pushing it a bit with the 223?? Havnt bought reloading gear yet but will be soon!

 

 

A fast twist .223 1:7 ideally 1:8 will do shooting the 75 Amax or even better the 80 grain Amax will get you too 500 yards with ease, in fact it will get you out to 1000 yards will surprisingly good results and you will make the 308 boys feel very nervous!

Its all to do with Velocity, bullet BC and Lag time but we wont get into that here.

 

Its a question really on what you want to achieve, if you want to shoot rabbits reliable and concistently out to 400 yards the the 204 will be great, a combination of high velocity and half decent bullet BC (for weight) causes reduced Lag time thus resulting in great results out to 400 yards pluss a bit.

 

If your wanting to shoot behound this distance then the advantage of high BC bullet will come at a massive advantage for you needs.

 

Steve

[provarmint]

Still sh1tt1ng green 'Bumper'

[Alycidon]

To put Wabbits' comment into context - "You will notice a world of difference between fit and finish of the 85 and your Howa", you are comparing a £650 rifle to a £1470 rifle.

 

My C63AMG is quicker than my previous M3 but who's counting the extra 30 grand ?

 

I love the .06- .07 I get from my Howa with 50gn Norma, 53 Superformance, 55 Sako and 55 Hornady. In the field it works !

Having seen and handled this Howa varmint rifle it is exceptional performer more than holding its own against full customs on a 5 inch 300 yard gong. Certainly opened my eyes until I learnt they are part of Miroku/Browning, then it started to make sense.

 

A

[Chris-NZ]

I was rather sceptical over .204s but after seeing my gunsmith's std Tikka Varmint in action with 39 Sierras, I've changed my mind. Seriously accurate and a pleasure to shoot. He hasn't shot many groups with it because he found a very accurate load straight off, but I have seen various .2s and .3s. Dunno why you'd pay the extra for a Sako

[eldon]

My .204 is a Sako 75 I Varmint. Other than screwcutting it and popping it into an A5 (which is ambidextrous so I can use it...) I've done nothing to it. It shoots 39gn SBKs at 0.2' all day. Oh, and it is is 1:12 I'd be a bit sceptical about all the claims that it don't stabilise 39gn and 40gn bullets.

 

In answer to the OP, my view is to get a Tikka T3 Varmint in .204 and never look back, all this business with 50gn .20cal bullets is philosophical as far as I'm concerned: the 39gn SBK is good for 400yds. If you wish to shoot further, get a 6mmBR

 

all the best

 

Finman

Yes fully agree, I have a Tikka super varmint in .204 and the load I've settled on is 28.1 grs vit N140 behind a 39 sbk which is great as I already use 140 in my 308. Speed is 3722 fps.

 

My other load is 24.6 grs N130 behind a 32 sbk. Speed is 3917 fps

[Alycidon]

Ok I've got both 204 and 223 hers the thing the 204 is my second my first was a Howa in a custom stock it made me think I was fantastic shooting rabits out past 300yards. Then I shot through my 200 rounds of Remington 32g and started on the next 200 a totall game change I missed the first 12 shots even at 100yards. After much reloading by me and my frend I sold the rifle at auction. My present 204 is a Howa with 28in Ruger barell in a RPA stock . Thers no Rem amo at least in Kent and the new Hornaday stuff needs testing box by box. I have loads in 32g and 39g that work using Reloader 10x but it won't shoot the 40g stuff. I've shot a few foxs with it and the round does a lot of damage. How ever I leave it indorse. I trust my 223 shooting 55g and heavier rounds to realy stop foxs properly the heavier bulet realy has given me more stone dead foxes. If its rabits or corvids the 204 fine, I've not reloaded for the 223 yet as it shoots everything that's 55g and heavier so well. The rifle is built by Dolphin Guns Neska acsion long barel in a Mc Millan 3-5 stock. If I had to keep one rifle it woud be that one. The first to go would be the 204.

 

 

I would agree in sticking with what you know and have confidence in.

 

It sounds like your 20s would have benefited from some carefull reloading and 39gr SBks and a tub of Vit,

 

I have shot enough foxes with 6mms, 22, 20 and 17 cal centerfires to recognise that given correct placement and a suitable bullet then foxes are all pretty well dropped on the spot.

 

Hit them away from the chest and they can go a long way even when hit by a big bullet.

 

A

[Alycidon]

 

 

In answer to the OP, my view is to get a Tikka T3 Varmint in .204 and never look back, all this business with 50gn .20cal bullets is philosophical as far as I'm concerned: the 39gn SBK is good for 400yds. If you wish to shoot further, get a 6mmBR

 

all the best

 

Finman

 

 

Berger have now discontinued the 50gr bullet. Bit of a shame as my 20BR is throated for it. However it also likes the 39gr SBK so no real issues. I have a few 50s to get through as well for the longer stuff.

 

A

[Sherlock]

 

 

Berger have now discontinued the 50gr bullet. Bit of a shame as my 20BR is throated for it. However it also likes the 39gr SBK so no real issues. I have a few 50s to get through as well for the longer stuff.

 

A

 

Are you able to run 55 grn Berger's in your 20 BR.

They look a very a interesting longer range bullet - although I have heard conflicting tales regarding expansion (when used on vermin).

 

ATB

S

[Montey]

In answer to your post Alycidon by carful testing of Hornaday 3 shots from a box at 200yards I'm able to grade each box (I don't find 5 shot nesary for this something ,I do do when home loading) Regarding your coment carful home loading I aply the same care to my varmenint loads as I do my F class loads. This is to say load testing using Vit or Rel10x won't exceed the performance of top end factory loads. This is not the case in my 308 stalking rifle or my 243 stalking rifle. I have got a tub of Hodgdon Super performance,to try for both 32g and 39g heads. I found acrsey dropped off if I pushed the loads using 10x or Vit 130 150. The thing is having to grade factory stuff to get the best is a pain and costly. I have dropped many foxs using the 204 but find the heavier BC of the 223 has a more consistent rate of humane kills. I use 95g Noslers in my 243 and am well aware as to how important shot placement is. I use the 243 for day light or lamping ,the load shoots the same point of aim at 200yards as 100yards ( no I haven't chronoed it as its working very well) I'm guessing its a bit high at 150? Something I must check. The 223 is my night time rig at night its not all ways possible to be so precise, some times we have to take the shot even if it just past 200yards and Charly won't stop to the shout. The reason for this being its not just sport for us but killing foxs that are devasting the local flock has turned into a proper mission.

[achosenman]

Having been down the 204 route I went back to the 223. My 204 was built by Riflecraft. The Pacnor 26 inch barrel was poor. I tried around 400 rds in various bullet weights/powder combo's. Not to mention primers, cases, neck tension. Full length re-sizing, neck re-sizing with the full range of bushings Redding did for that calibre. I also neck turned. You name it I tried it. It would not shoot. I had 2 inches lopped off and hey presto it shot Nosler 40gn into silly small groups, but you had to push it hard right up at around 3850fps...ish.

 

Out to 300m it was like shooting a laser beam...simple as. Beyond that it was horrible in any sort of wind compared to the 223 launching a slow

(in comparison) heavy high BC Berger bullet. Because I pushed it hard to achieve the sales pitch velocity, I had significant fire cracking in the first half of the barrel at 1200rnds. Accuracy at range dropped off, I gave up and went back to the 223. The present 223 from Neil McKillop is way past that round count and still rings the 3" gong at ranges way out past what I could achieve with a 204.

 

If I were you, I'd re-barrel your 223 and hand load for accuracy. You might have to add a click or two to your dope, but what difference 24 clicks as opposed to 21?

 

ATB

[sean223]

Thanks to all you guys that took the time to reply to this with your thoughts and in field experience. It's making me think that a caliber change may not be as important as an accrued rifle. There Seems to be a lot of compering the difference between the 204 and the 223. I know any one would do for what am after but seems you can do more with the 223 when using heavier bullets with a higher bc. I've been collecting my brass for a while now as reloading was defiantly going to happen. So when I've got all this brass why not use it and get a fast twist custom barrel on my Howa in 223 or sell the rifle and buy a donnar action and get a semi custom rifle built. So thanks guys for changing my mind and mybe in the future I will own a 204 but for now I'll stick to the 223. Funny how this has happened when this is titled "THINKING ON THE 204 BUT WHICH FACTORY RIFLE .

[Murph]

Thanks to all you guys that took the time to reply to this with your thoughts and in field experience. It's making me think that a caliber change may not be as important as an accrued rifle. There Seems to be a lot of compering the difference between the 204 and the 223. I know any one would do for what am after but seems you can do more with the 223 when using heavier bullets with a higher bc. I've been collecting my brass for a while now as reloading was defiantly going to happen. So when I've got all this brass why not use it and get a fast twist custom barrel on my Howa in 223 or sell the rifle and buy a donnar action and get a semi custom rifle built. So thanks guys for changing my mind and mybe in the future I will own a 204 but for now I'll stick to the 223. Funny how this has happened when this is titled "THINKING ON THE 204 BUT WHICH FACTORY RIFLE .

Stick with the 223- you will not regret. I would have a 223 over a 204 any day of the week. But hand loading makes a world of difference in any caliber.

[hunter686]

Im with the .204 have a factory T3 Varmint and it will shoot as low as .19. With hand loads. Just my 2 cents incase you were still on the fence. With a 200 yard zero its point and shoot until you hit the 400yrd point then your talking around 14 inch drop.

[Tony Shotgun]

Hi all. Looking at going down the 204 route as my 223 just isn't giving me the accuracy am after. It's served me we'll as it was my first Center fire rifle. Mybe it's the sporter barrel on my Howa I don't know but ive tried every ammo I could find and it just won't group that we'll. I showed the group on here and everyone said to try different ammo. That I did with about 6 different brands and weights and some home loads a guy made me and not much difference, There always was flyers. Looking for a nice fast round to shoot vermin with, foxes gray crows etc out to 400 yards or so. Am looking at a sako 85 varmint stainless, Remington 700 bro or ruger m77 hawkeye. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Hello Mate

 

I've just brought a Tikka T3 Super Varmint in .204. Best rifle I've ever had. It's a babe and I'm in love. Waited 7 months for it. Since then I've seen them in 2 different shops in Sussex. KWG and Anderson's East Grinstead. Get a new one not second hand. Use it wisely. You wont regret it. Me and a mate are going to make a video soon shooting vermin at long ranges. I've just posted a topic 5 minutes ago before reading into yours. Great gun. Buy one. Worth every penny.

 

Kind regards

 

Tony Shotgun

[mark4159]

Im with the .204 have a factory T3 Varmint and it will shoot as low as .19. With hand loads. Just my 2 cents incase you were still on the fence. With a 200 yard zero its point and shoot until you hit the 400yrd point then your talking around 14 inch drop.

 

Do you mind if I ask what powder and recipe you use for handloads in this rifle? Ive just bought a T3 Super varmint in 204 - with a long wait and trying to do research on best reloads to save money and time.

Alot have said RL10x is the best or H4895 with 39gr blitzkings. Does yours stabilize 40gr ok? So many forums say 1 in 12 is border line stabilizing them.

[hunter686]

Incase people are unaware Sako and tikka use EXACLTY the same barrels! When they are making them in the factory they can go either way.

[hunter686]

 

Here's the target

[hunter686]

 

Do you mind if I ask what powder and recipe you use for handloads in this rifle? Ive just bought a T3 Super varmint in 204 - with a long wait and trying to do research on best reloads to save money and time.

Alot have said RL10x is the best or H4895 with 39gr blitzkings. Does yours stabilize 40gr ok? So many forums say 1 in 12 is border line stabilizing them.

N135 is holy water in my rifle! I've used 10x at the start, was very promising to begin with then it just fell apart, like over and inch at 100 yards and couldn't get it back. I was only getting about 3300fps with 25.1grns. I now shoot 27.4grs of the N135 3730fps out a 20 barrel. The guy that told me about this powder knows of another 4 t3s with same results so i t seems to be a chocolate cake recipe for the T3's.

Recipe:

27.4 N135

39SBK

Hornady brass (I get on ok so far with it)

Rem 7.5 bring primers

Coal 2.285

Here's a target i shot, to prove I'm not keyboard sniper this one was about 1.75' @ 400

[gbal]

Here's the target

 

looks a tad larger than 1.25 maybe 1.75,but perhaps the ruler needs checking.

 

But you get lots of brownie points for not claiming three in .25, with a called flier!

 

Good shooting at 400y- most Vihtavuori powders are excellent. Got to be 'go to', and usually ' stay with' if accuracy is important.

 

gbal

 

ps glad your interview was positive all round,always looked like a

' communication' issue,hence my original advice- give 'help' not 'hell' . :-)

[hunter686]

du

 

looks a tad larger than 1.25 maybe 1.75,but perhaps the ruler needs checking.

But you get lots of brownie points for not claiming three in .25, with a called flier!

Good shooting at 400y- most Vihtavuori powders are excellent. Got to be 'go to', and usually ' stay with' if accuracy is important.

gbal

ps glad your interview was positive all round,always looked like a
' communication' issue,hence my original advice- give 'help' not 'hell' . :-

Changed! And thank you for the kind wishes, i think all parties involved were happy with the outcome, i certainly am!

[gbal]

No worries,photos sometimes deceive....

....just didn't want you to sell the ruler,and get trading standards chasing you!

 

Enough,already!

 

atb

g

[Chris-NZ]

A followup to my prev comments:

 

We were out shooting rabbits on a big brassica crop. We had a half value wind,maybe 5-6mph coming on and off rapidly. At the far end were some small rabbits, none bigger than half size. I called the wind and he fired the shots. In less than two minutes, he hit three in five shots with the misses so close we couldn't believe they escaped. Closest was 370yds, two furthest 395yds. Load is 748 behind a 39 BK, sodding accurate as I said