.22LR Barrels dont wear out..

[SWShooter]

according to Eley....http://www.eley.co.uk/en/the-bulletin/barrel-wear-myths-shot-down/

[MrCetrizine]

I'd agree with that. I have just sold an Anschutz target rifle that had 4 previous owners one of which won some quite high profile competitions with it.

 

At the point I sold it, because I wanted a more modern stock not because it had any issues, it had fired close to 80,000 rounds and was still shooting sub calibre groups with Tenex. Not in my hands I hasten to add.

[baldie]

I,ve seen several 10/22 barrels that were shot out. I remember two very well. They were club guns from down south somewhere and one had shot 150, 000 rounds, the other 120,000 rounds. The were knackered and simply would no longer group.

 

Any tube that has explosions set off in it, especially using primer compound with ground glass in it, is going to wear out.

[Shuggy]

Eley say that you need to clean a 0.22 barrel every time it's used in order to get long life. I doubt that happens with club guns!

[SWShooter]

I,ve seen several 10/22 barrels that were shot out. I remember two very well. They were club guns from down south somewhere and one had shot 150, 000 rounds, the other 120,000 rounds. The were knackered and simply would no longer group.

 

Any tube that has explosions set off in it, especially using primer compound with ground glass in it, is going to wear out.

 

Maybe that's down to 10/22 barrel material quality? plus as mentioned before club rifles rarely get cleaned correctly...if at all .

[baldie]

I,ve never met a competitive smallbore shooter yet, that cleans his/her barrel after every outing.

 

The lead removed by cleaning has to be put back before the gun will group again. A common theme on any 22lr.

[dannywayoflife]

Well my BSA centuary is over 50 years old ive personally put about 2,000 through it and God knows how many it's had prior to my ownership but I've just been down the range with it and she'll still shoot 1 hole groups @50yds with eley.

[Laurie]

There was a very detailed article on this by one of the USA's top rimfire gurus maybe 15 or 20 years ago in 'Gun Digest' annual looking at wear rates and patterns and with close ups of sectioned barrels. It said that a .22LR match rifle firing good quality standard velocity ammo had a barrel throat life of 100-120,000 rounds. Wear concentrates just ahead of the chamber as one would expect but unlike centrefires does not occur around the entire throat circumference. It is first seen at under 50,000 rounds at the 6 o'clock position and gradually works up the sides towards 12 o'clock. When the two wear areas get close, grouping was found to fall off and to deteriorate so much when they met that rebarrelling was required.

 

Maybe Eley ammo is so good that it doesn't wear steel anymore and that .22 rimfire barrel steels have also improved a lot in recent years extending life. While I wouldn't be surprised if that were at least partly true, I still find it incredible that no wear occurs. On 10-22s and similar, the use of high-velocity ammo sees a LOT more powder burned and heat go into the barrel compared to standard velocity match ammo, two to four times as heavy a powder charge so barrel life is going to be heavily reduced irrespective of barrel steel quality.

 

On cleaning I'd completely agree with Baldie. In fact, I'd go further - I'd say that people's reluctance to clean .22LR barrels is a major factor in favour of long life. It's so easy to damage a relatively soft small calibre rimfire barrel. Yes, I know there are right and wrong ways to clean, but any slightly sloppy practice or problems with the cleaning gear will increase wear in this instance.

[gbal]

Eley's data seem to show that their test barrels show 'very good' predicted scores (637-638) after relatively huge round counts.

Unfortunately,they don't make clear what that means in more conventional-indeed any-terms,or the distance their groups were shot (and the 'histograms' have no axis labels)-not very reader friendly.

 

But what is missing is how these test barrels shot early in their test life.Without that- 'predicted test scores' early in the barrel life - we can't really say there is no deterioration,but might well accept that it seems remarkably limited. Or did I miss something ?

 

gbal

 

ps: It's pretty unlikely that club rifles would have shot only Eley Tenex,at a moderate cadence-especially semi autos,rattling off variable ammo,without a good cleaning regime.Eley make no claims there.

[MrCetrizine]

Eley's data seem to show that their test barrels show 'very good' predicted scores (637-638) after relatively huge round counts.

Unfortunately,they don't make clear what that means in more conventional-indeed any-terms,or the distance their groups were shot (and the 'histograms' have no axis labels)-not very reader friendly.

The distance is 50m. They state ISSF-50.

[gbal]

Thanks,Mr C -I did see that,but unless one shoots in that discipline,it wasn't very clear-to be fair,Eley are probably addressing informed target shooters. So what does 637.5 mean.....all I recall from 25y 22rf indoor was that the card was 10 targets,with each bull worth 10 points -so 'possible' top score was 100,and routinely achieved by the best shots.

 

The fundamental limiter remains-no 'early round count' data-I imagine Eley will have it,taken regularly to check test barrels are still good......so why not give it,to support their case?

 

G

[MrCetrizine]

ISSF 50m single position is 60 shots. They use decimal scoring so the 10 ring is 10 and absolute dead centre of it is 10.9 giving a maximum possible score of 654. The 10 ring is 10.4mm and the 10.9 size is 5.56mm

[bradders]

Having visited the Lapua smaller test facility in Mesa AZ and watched a rifle go through batch testing, I tool the following pics.

They have electronic targets set up at 25, 50 & 100M in the tunnel and these pics are of the exact same group, albeit t 25 & 50.

The acceptance marl is 16mm @ 25yds and you can see that the 50M group is nothing like the ones posted on ELEY's website.

 

Ammo in these tests was Eley and the rifle was mounted in a sled

 

 

 

In other words Eley....

 

[gbal]

Thanks,I am getting there-what would say,a typical European Championship Wining score be,given Eley's machine rest jobbie is getting 638,which seems like 60 bulls,and 38 clipping the dot (or some equivalent 59 bulls,and 48 point clips.....I'll take it on trust that 637.5 is viable!)

I can well believe top shots are that good-even 60+ years ago the local small town top shot would get ten bulls,most "all away" (ie point well obliterated) at 25y prone.I was well impressed.

g

[MrCetrizine]

Typical world champion contender scores are in the mid to high 620s for prone which would be closest to a bench test rig.

[MrCetrizine]

Having visited the Lapua smaller test facility in Mesa AZ and watched a rifle go through batch testing, I tool the following pics.

They have electronic targets set up at 25, 50 & 100M in the tunnel and these pics are of the exact same group, albeit t 25 & 50.

The acceptance marl is 16mm @ 25yds and you can see that the 50M group is nothing like the ones posted on ELEY's website.

 

Ammo in these tests was Eley and the rifle was mounted in a sled

 

 

 

In other words Eley....

 

I noticed the rifle belongs to Len Remaly but it makes me wonder why he was having it tested as that 50m group is way worse than he could do while holding it let alone strapped into a sled.

 

I'm not saying Eley wouldn't massage the truth to put a positive spin on test results but their posted groups are about right for what you get as a test target with a brand new Anschutz or Feinwerkbau.

[gbal]

Mr C,Thanks again.Looks like the ammo is pretty good - I spotted for the local milkman,who was pretty well there,at least at 25y indoor ( at eight thirty pm,he'd probably been on the go since 5am,too!)-a very positive formative influence ,in general terms as to what is possible. I still like milk,too.

Presumably all this 22rf is indoors-I mean no wind?

 

The Houston tunnel showed top PPC rigs could shoot in the low .1s,sometimes better, in near perfect 100y indoor/tunnel conditions. Outside,world performance about doubles that,and is close to UKvarminter performance, at it's best ,allegedly -cyncism may be unwarranted,but skepticism is defensible. If only Eley loaded 223,or .20 prac...... :-)

 

gbal

[MrCetrizine]

I'd love to see Eley do centre fire especially if they made it in the UK. Sadly like every factory round, I doubt it would come close to even beginner hand loads.

[gbal]

Not quite-Black Hills in US do OK 308,I think...(Shuggy-is there better?)

 

But Lapua and Norma do really good 6BR.

 

That's ten shots in .42 for Norma "Black Diamond" match.

 

This is the sort of stuff that wins European 300 and 600 m matches.It's probably better than even good re loaders' stuff,maybe not measureably so,given the disciplines shot. Not the cheapest,of course.

g

[MrCetrizine]

I take it that rifles are chambered and throated with this ammo in mind or would any 6BR shoot it as well?

 

I ask because I gave up the search for a factory round that shoots as well in my .223 as I can make them with my meagre skills and understanding. If there's likely to be one out there, I might start searching again for times when I can't be bothered to sit at a bench for a few hours.

[gbal]

The 6BR,and especially the 6BR Norma chamber,as it was initially-was explicitly designed as an accuracy number.

The 6BR norma is what is currently meant by the current term 6BR .What was the 6Br norma is now a CIP and therefore SAAMI equivalent standard cartridge.

The cartridge was especially popular-dominant-with European CISM and UIT 300,and 600m shooters.

 

Lapua and Norma loaded very high quality ammunition for that market. There is no special chambering/throating for the ammo-it's made to CIP specs.

Good hand loaded ammo is also excellent-but of course depends on the handloader tailoring it to a particular rifle-as always.It does not seem a fussy cartridge.

6BR will compete favourably against 223-if it was even close,some top competitors would be shooting 223.I don't think any do-and many of the top shooters using 6BR use Norma/Lapua ammunition.

 

AccurateShooter site gives an account of its use.

223 Rem can be an accurate cartridge,of course-but not accurate enough given the alternatives (like 6BR and PPC) to be used as alternative choices.So there is no real market for premium accuracy 223 ammunition,though a huge market for competent ammo(and so so cheap stuff).

If you are interested in an accurate cartridge factory loaded,the 6BR (and 6PPC) are contenders (maybe 6XC as Norma loaded?). It is expensive.And these cartridges do not have (m)any rifles in the lower 223 price ranges-they are at the expensive end-and overlap with custom-the way to go if max precision is needed.

There are some reloaded . 223s,and plenty such 6BRs,reloaded of not-there are also quite a lot of 223s that are not .25s,and far fewer 6Brs that are not.

AS ever,a good idea can be had from looking at what precision shooters choose.Its not 223,fine field varminter that it often is-as are 6BR and PPC.

 

I doubt that there are (m)any100/200 Bench Rest shooters using commercially loaded ammo-though there is quite a potential market in US,which suggests reloading is the way to go perhaps for ultimate last .005 of precision-if you have the equipment etc to achieve that,and a top custom rifle.

 

gbal

[Andrew]

I,ve never met a competitive smallbore shooter yet, that cleans his/her barrel after every outing.

 

The lead removed by cleaning has to be put back before the gun will group again. A common theme on any 22lr.

I agree.

~Andrew

[dorg]

I remember chatting to Steve Kershaw, he makes a lot of the top 22 benchrest rimfire rifles and he regularly re chambers barrels that have already had 80,000 plus rounds through them.