bullet grouping

[snow white]

Hi lads this a group I shot this morning was wondering if you can advice me how to close it up.the rifle is a new heanel 223 22 inch barrel 1/12 twist to the lands is 1.934 on this rifle. The bullets are 55 grain vmax 23.3 vhtiav powder n133. The target was hundred yards as you see from photo I have set the heads back to give me some jump all measurements are from base to ogive your advice wood be much appreciated thank you.

[triggersqueezer]

what vit are you using ?

[Scotch_egg]

I have always kept OAL and varied powder weight for load development.

[snow white]

Sorry lads just edited using n133 vhti powder

[triggersqueezer]

powder is ok are you using rear rest is the scope parallaxed ok,scope and mod tight?if all ok i would check the barrel does it need a good clean any carbon build up crown ok. after that i would try a different powder.

[gbal]

OK-I recall your CZ 527 1/12 with this load was shooting '5 rounds touching',so let's assume you can shoot better than these groups.

Can the rifle-this Haenel-well,maybe and maybe not.As per Triggersqueezer,check it is clean,and scope secure etc-is the scope a decent magnification (at least similar to the Cz group scope?). Some factory rifles just don't shoot as good as others,but we can try a bit more.

Seating depth is often fine tuning,especially as 55gvmax are typically fairly tolerant of seating depth-but you could try just short of in the lands,maybe 5 thou jump.Load seems OK,you could see if a slight powder increase helps,so long as there were no pressure signs at current loading.

 

That's about it-though an alternate bullet should be tried too. Test in good conditions-though the groups given don't show much wind effects,and dispersal seems 'general'/even. Good luck.

 

gbal

[snow white]

The gun is brand new the scope is the one I was using on my cz every think is tight.the rest is a steel one made out of 50mm box section.was wondering if I tried going in 15 thou jumps would it make it better or worse don't want to go down the way of changing powder as I have nearly two tubs of the stuff.could I increase the amount of powder say to 24.looked on vhit web site cannot find anything that is OK thanks again.

[snow white]

The ogive on my cz is 1.813 the ogive on this new gun is 1.934 which is quite a difference had a look at some 50 grain blitzeking but the bullet was only just seated in the case don't think i can use in this gun has anybody had same problem. Thanks again for looking.

[gbal]

OK- the rest presumably worked fine for the CZ-and as said,the groups look even enough.Don't change powder-V133 is as good as any,better than most.try seating just off the lands 5-10 -15 thou-if you have not already done this-(your OAL etc are uninformative,as we don;t know where your lands are,and rifles just vary). Do you have a seating depth guage etc?

If still no joy,try a small powder increase-if no pressure signs.-and repeat above-at least the best group seating depth.

g

[gun nut]

Snow white I'd say that powder load is half way between two accuracy nodes, that's why changing your seating depth isn't really having the desired effect, try going up .3 grains and down .3grains, 5 of each and seating them at 1.924 and you'll see pretty quickly which way you need to go. I'll bet the down .3grains works better

 

Mike

[snow white]

High lads I do have a seating depth gauge and all the bits and bobs I need. I will try seating closer to lands first and different depths and powder increase and decree. Been thinking about it in the night did seem to get more recole the normal was wondering if to much powder will check cases after.Will let you know how I get on thanks lads

[gaz6br]

223 1-12 twist 52gr amax v133

 

 

 

 

200 yards

 

 

400 yards

 

 

Rear bag bipod

 

Gaz

[gbal]

OK-I think we had some points about measuring 'ogive' etc before-still unclear.

Am I correct in thinking -from your descriptions-that "this rifle is 1.934 to the lands" means that when one of these bullets (it will vary with different makes/weights) is just touching the lands,the base to ogive length is 1.934? What are you measuring this with?

OK,if so,your group at 1.924 would seem to be ten thou off the lands-that's generally as far off as 224 bullets need to be-the others are getting a bit too far off,or way too far off,and are no better.

Try 5 thou off the lands.

If no joy,then ,as suggested,maybe you are not in a powder node,so try small changes in powder load.

 

Just a reminder-these 'ogive' measures can't really be taken as too accurate between reloaders/measuring equipment. Manufacturing tolerances-even the good ones,like sinclair/stoney point-are £30 items,so vary a bit,and it's done by 'feel'-people just vary in finger sensitivity.

It does not matter-what you want is a measure that works reliably for your ammo,so that it is consistent in seating depth,and suits the rifle. If you have any doubts about bullet jambing into lands,the old low tech method of seating a bullet in an unloaded case,blacking it with candle soot,and chambering -can be useful-any contact with lands is shown by scratches in the soot along the bullet-seat til the scratches just go . Then seat maybe 5 -10 thou further out,whichever is best...

g

[snow white]

I am measuring with the tool for the job a horndy gauge the one that slide in the breech with case and head to find depth then a tool that fits on dial callipers to give the ogive.thanks again

[gbal]

I am measuring with the tool for the job a horndy gauge the one that slide in the breech with case and head to find depth then a tool that fits on dial callipers to give the ogive.thanks again

OK,that's the one.Try .010 to .020 off the rifling-usually where 224s are best.You should not need to go above Vihtavouri's max for powder.There will be a node close enough below. (V133 is the powder of choice for 100y BR accuracy-it works).The 55g 1/12 223 isn't going to be a 500y rifle,and at sensible distances for it, 100 fps are not going to transform performance-you are in the sub half inch less drop zone-and may as likely degrade accuracy.

At least get a good,accurate moderate load first.

g

[Andrew]

I have always kept OAL and varied powder weight for load development.

 

I do a similar route. I seat the parallel sides of the bullet to the base of the neck and then play with powder charge. If no love is found I think of a different powder. If there is a glimmer of promise, I play with seating depth moving the bullet outward.~Andrew

[nicky.223]

If you cant get it any better try a different make if bullets i had that trouble with 1 of my old 223 i was getting groups like that with sierra spitzers i tryed for ages to get it tighter but i had no luck so went to hornady 50 grn vmax and i was getting 0.3 at a 100 yards with 25 grn of vit n133 at 2.260

[Murph]

The gun is brand new the scope is the one I was using on my cz every think is tight.the rest is a steel one made out of 50mm box section.was wondering if I tried going in 15 thou jumps would it make it better or worse don't want to go down the way of changing powder as I have nearly two tubs of the stuff.could I increase the amount of powder say to 24.looked on vhit web site cannot find anything that is OK thanks again.[/qu

 

Plus 1. You are in between nodes with this load. Load up in batches of 5 in .2 increments. You should hit the next accuracy node around or slightly above 24 grains. Don't worry about your oal until you get your powder right. I have a load for 53gr vmax in my blaser which is loaded with h4895 which is 26.3 grains which should tally around the 24.5 grain with the n133. This load is loaded at 2.265 and has a very light crimp done with a lee factory crimp which in my test has halfed extreme spread through my chrono.this load produces group in the high 1s at 100 yards and below half moa at 600 yards.